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Michael Kappeler/EPA
Pope Benedict XVI waves to tens of thousands of pilgrims and well-wishers on Wednesday as the Popemobile transports him through St. Peter's Square.
It’s good to be the pope – even a retired one, it turns out.
As Pope Benedict XVI steps down on Thursday, his retirement package – the first one the Vatican has had to prepare in almost 600 years – would likely be considered a sweet deal by the average American senior, providing a steady income and generous perks.
Let’s start with the basics: The pope emeritus will receive a monthly pension of 2,500 euros, according to Italian newspaper La Stampa.
That translates to almost $3,300, or close to the monthly maximum of $3,350 that Social Security will pay to an American who retires this year.
Few people will actually qualify for that amount. For starters, you would have to wait until 70 to retire. You would also have to spend most of your working life earning Social Security’s taxable maximum pay, which is set at $113,700 this year.
“That’s quite rare,” said Richard Johnson, director of the program on retirement policy at the Urban Institute.
He pointed out that the average Social Security check is about $1,200 a month — not enough to pay for the typical American retiree’s expenses.
“For most people, if you look at the median, Social Security counts for about 40 percent of their income. So it’s important, but people rely a lot on other savings, like pensions or 401(k) savings,” Johnson said.
A big nest egg is not something the pope emeritus has to worry about. The Roman Catholic Church will cover his living expenses, provide him with a spacious home inside the Vatican and pay for everything from cooked meals to housekeepers, according to The Telegraph.
Such services are not available to the typical American senior, unless he or she pays for an assisted living facility or resides in a nursing home, Johnson said.
What about waiting to retire until 85, as Benedict did? The average American retires at about 64, so working that long is unusual, Johnson noted.
“If you have a job you love, it’s great,” he said.
Slideshow: Pope Benedict's XVI's departure
“(But) just like the pope, the biggest determinant of retirement is health status. When your health starts to deteriorate, that’s what often pushes people into retirement, sometimes earlier than expected.”
Health care costs are one of the big risks that older Americans face, and while Medicare pays for the bulk of their expenses, many things are left uncovered, Johnson said. Meanwhile, the pope emeritus will continue to be a member of the Vatican's generous private health care policy, the BBC reported.
Bottom line: rent-free living, few out-of-pocket expenses plus thousands of dollars deposited into your account each month would probably constitute a good deal in most people’s minds.
Of course, the pope is not most people. His financial health is of such interest that it recently got the Saturday Night Live treatment, with a mock ad showing a worried Benedict surrounded by a pile of unpaid bills and seeking the help of a financial planning firm called “Papal Securities.” Motto: “Because heaven can wait.”
In a dramatic exit from the Vatican, Pope Benedict flew off to the papal retreat Castel Gandolfo. Tourists gathered in St. Peter's Square to watch the momentous occasion. NBC's Anne Thompson reports.
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Why don't u compare him to a CEO who retires with hundreds of millions of dollars and other perks. The Pope was the CEO of institution of over 1 billion people and is two thousand years old and is 85 years old I think he deserves every penny he gets so lets stop the nonsense.
I enjoyed learning about his retirement package. He is the first to retire in modern times. That alone is newsworthy. Where does a former Pope go on retirement? That was interesting to read.
So they compared it to an average citizen on social security? That is most of the people who support the catholic church. Why would they compare him to a CEO? Compare it to those who are supporting his retirement. I see nothing bad about this article.
The old man deserves all the perks coming to him.
He got fed up with all the monkey business going on in the church; who wouldnt, most churches have become homosexual brothels among other ills...
The church has stopped being a place of worship and instead has turned into a money making Sodom and Gormorah a
If you want to attack Catholicism do it directly. These kind of indirect attacks on an 80 year old man who served an institution - right or wrong - come across as mean. MSNBC shouldn't engage in that.
I agree with Steven. This guy is not an ordinary person. His pension is small compared to the stature of his position. And comparing it to those who support his retirement as Iammyownwoman suggested. . . that's laughable. This was a loved pope. I am certain that had the church asked people to donate to the pope's retirement fund, he'd be retiring on far more than what they are providing him.
This is a stupid article that suggests the church should have given him less and watched him struggle from pension check to pension check (after a lifetime of service to the church).
One perk they don't mention. When he dies all his assets go to the church not his relatives.
Oh for pete's sake, I wasn't bashing the Pope. Any adult with common sense would put it in the very perspective Steven did, as did I. However, I see where NBC is coming from as well.
Steven - try rewording your sentence. The pope isn't 2000 years old. I'm not even certain that the Catholic church qualifies as 2000 years old.
That's simple, he has one.
He ain't the average senior.
In this country, a President retires with a lot more income, free benefits of all kinds, and never a worry. The pope's following is much greater than our President
Better yet, Steve, why don't you compare him with one of our regular politicians?!
Agree with Steven. The Pope looks and acts like a guy who is not going to be enjoying a long retirement. He is retiring in recognition of his own delcining health and is conscious the Church deserves a healthy active Pope. A wise decision. It is nice to see an unselfish decision, one that puts the long term interest of the greater good over that of the person. Such people are to be appreciated. Good people are hard to find. He has had a long and active and at times uber busy life. Best of luck to him, God bless the new and old Popes !
I don't begrudge the old guy for being taken care of in his old age. The CC on the other hand, is the richest church in the world while millions of its devote followers (primarily in south America and Africa) live in utter poverty. What's wrong with this picture?
I agree that it's a business. A business of promoting myths.
Wow! the pope has a personal bank account and gets money deposited into it! Can he write a will on that money or give it to anyone he likes without the vatican's supervision? It's all god's money afterall. And god doesn't seem to be sleeping on this one...
What? compare pope to the CEO? Capitalistic papacy?
PJ- when you have the pope between you and your religion (ie god), and when that is all the work the pope is supposedly doing, talking about him is talking about religion. But then it depends on what you actually believe in as opposed to what you say you believe in.
a absolute leader of over 1 billion people, retires with a small stipend and shelter, maybe our politicians can do the same, instead of the millions they receive, plus free health care, annual raises, and able to lobby to earn millions more.
The Roman Catholic Church is nothing but a big old white man's corporation so wwhy not get paid like it is? I agree. The whole church is a business, has nothing to do with morals or spirituality.
What people aren't realizing is he should actually be compared to our President's retirement package or to the Queen of England's retirement package. He is the monarch of a soverign country so comparing him to the everyday American citizen is ridiculous! Apples and oranges people. Compare him to his global colleagues.
crazy people obsess themselves with other people money...whaaa, that guy has lots of money... i dont think he deserves it...tax him tax him tax him. Notice you never hear people say...i want my money taxed more.
i think people need realize the position he swore an oath to. By design, priests and nuns take an oath of poverty... so nothing is theirs. When he dies all that "horrible money everyone is so jealous about per month" goes back to the church. When you die, your savings goes to your children/wife and your spouse takes on your social security benefits.
I agree with the poor reporting on MSNBC comments here.... they are painting him like he's getting some huge package. What they should say is, he will be taken care of comfortably until he's dead. Period.
yes tes; it's a 2,000 year old organization. Been in operation continuously. Think maybe you could accumulate some property and cash if you were in business 50 years or 100? I'd hope so.
Saxon: The vatican is a State recognized worldwide as soveriegn. They make their own laws. But "absolute power" isn't one of 'em.
Did the Church do evil stuff in the name of the Lord and therefore become hypocritic at times ? Heck yeah. Terrible, evil stuff. Now, they are reformed and repentant. They still have major work to do and have repairs and restoration to make toward recent victims
"When your health starts to deteriorate, that's what often pushes people into retirement"
Take it from someone who has retired for this reason, it's not much of a retirement when your tied to doctors and pharmacies not to mention machines. I'd rather be healthy and working!
@tes - I am not a christian. I am not particularly religious either. If anything I support criticism of religion since most of the times religion has only hindered human progress and kept people under fear. However I wouldn't go as far as criticizing a person who dedicated his entire life in the service of something he believed in. It takes courage to do that. Now it's another matter if he was one of those child molesters or a coverup guy. I wouldn't have any problems criticizing specifics such as those.
That isn't a bad retirement for a guy who spent his life scamming people out of their money by telling them that a non-existent god loves them, despite threats of hell if they don't follow his every word, and protecting the pedophiles that molest their kids.
The Pope is the worlds greatest televangelist and the ultimate scam artist. I was raised Catholic so don't bother replying with the usual BS about me hating something that I don't understand.
epistemologist, it sounds like your parents failed or you just took a wrong turn somewheres...GLTY
@Redrum, Please explain how exactly my parents failed me.
Religion is a construction of man to explain what ancient man didn't want to understand and it i has evolved into a form of global social control that relies on a mixture of tribalism and fear of death to survive.
epistemologist, great explaination of religion... aka myths.
Gee, don't you two feel good about yourselves? Admit it, you only clicked on this story to spout off about how bad you think the Church is. Grow up. There are forums for religious debate, and there are places where it is unneeded and unwanted. Guess which one this is.
If you want to debate religion, go ahead and do so. It's your right to. But this isn't the place for you to come in and start criticizing other belief systems just because you disagree with them. I don't care if you were Catholic before, or Buddhist, or Hindu. You're being a troll now. If this issue is really that close to your heart, please go find a more appropriate place where you can disrespectfully throw about accusations amongst people who are prepared to read them.
Back on topic: What I believe is the most important piece of information left out by this article is that the Pope is not just the head of the Catholic Church-he is the head of the Holy See (or the Vatican, however you want to call it). It is a sovereign state. In terms of secular leaders (especially secular leaders in governments with high executive power, such as monarchies or theocracies), his retirement benefits are very humble, especially considering that none of the property is actually his. That's not to say he cannot use his pension to purchase other property, but as someone pointed out earlier, clergymen in the Catholic Church pledge all their personal possessions to the Church.
As for the Church being rich...it is, but in the same way that a private citizen is rich. For one, this is not the Church of the Middle Ages. Donations are just that-donations. You can sit in the pew and ignore the plate if you want to-religion is free. What wealth the Church does have it acquired over a long span of time...any serious research into the finances of the Church will tell you that it is a hierarchical system, so the funds are supervised by the Vatican. However, the Catholic Church is also the largest charitable organization in the world-so those poor and impoverished people mentioned above very likely receive money and care from a Catholic charity. And that's not counting the unofficial Catholic charitable organizations that operate independently.
All gods are imaginary.
As is, apparently, your ability to make supported statements.
Evidence of the non-existant? LOL. The burden of proof is upon you not me.
Why should he receive any money with all of the other benefits provided. Where will all of that unspent money go when he dies? To his unnamed children he has secretly sired, or back to the church?
That is an interesting question. When he is the Pope, he is only the custodian of the Vatican's wealth. When the Pope dies, everything goes back to the Vatican. In this case, he will not be the Pope. I would think that he would be like any other person who works for the church and his money would be distributed based on his will...if he has a written will. Since he is no longer the custodian of the Vatican, that the money he makes is his to do with as he pleases. He will probably give it back to the church at the time of his death, but who knows. Again, I could be wrong on this...and who knows if there is even a standard for a retirement since it hasn't happened for such long time.
Hmm..$3300 a month, 85 years old and in failing health..wow he sure should bank a pile of cash! <sarcasm>.
Gee anti-trust proponent, do you spend money on things other than housing and food? Clothes, medicine, transportation, gifts, donations,let alone, dare I say it, a vacation? ... I suspect the pope might have a need for some money in his remaining days.
I think dmiller2413 is correct, it is his money to will as he sees fit and if he gives it back to the church, so what? It is his money.
Why don't we compare what the US government (the taxpayers) spend to maintain CRIMINALS? According to The Economist, it ranges from $18,000 to $50,000 A YEAR PER inmate! They break the law and they get free room and board.
I think the Pope certainly should be able to live out the rest of his life in relative peace.
JessieZ, the pope isn't a criminal, perhaps, but he helped to cover up the activities of sex offenders, so he may not have as much peace as you think he deserves.
catholic priests by design take an oath of poverty so all of his possessions upon death go back to the church. From what i understand...he's still a priest. I dont like how they are painting this out to be a golden parachute story. just say he will be taken care of...period. the president gets his salary for the rest of his life and thats 450k/year. give it a rest peeps
JessieZ -- Have you considered what "free room and board" is like at prisons like Attica or San Quentin? I would be willing to bet that virtually all the inmates at even the best prisons would pay double to be outside.
Okie I actually was taken on a tour of a prison when I was ten - scouting trip trying to deter bad behavior I guess. I was impressed that some of the inmates had their own tv in their cell. I didn't have one. That aside, I'm sure the cons would happily pay anything to get outside - but then they would probably steal the money.
If my point was too obscure, here it is: the monthly stipend the pope will receive seems small for a lifetime of serving the church. Whether you think his work was good or bad - it matters not as is the catholic church's money, not the public's. While my money (and yours) in part helps support people who chose to break the law. They are fed and housed at no cost to them. Other than their freedom.
Money? I'm getting old, and my package is rapidly encroaching on my knees. The Pope is ancient, and must have a package that looks like a rotting fruit basket that hangs just about ankle high.
Wouldn't it be great if he left it to an abortion clinic?
@JessieZ and Laura206'
The Pope facilitated the criminal actions of priests and allowed them to continue to molest the children of parishioners, so he is also definitely a criminal. The various actions of the Vatican bank and other activities are unknown so there may be more crimes that he committed. The reason that he continues to live as a free man and not be prosecuted is because he can claim diplomatic immunity as a head of state.
Under U.S. law (which does govern the sovereign state of the Vatican), he facilitated nothing as he had no knowledge of the rapes, epistemologist. Even if you believe that the Church intentionally covered up the incidents (which I don't doubt you do, judging from your commentary), it would be laughable to think that the 85 year old pope, who has many secular duties outside of the religious ideals he is supposed to manage, wastes his time dealing with an accusation of child molestation. Do you think the Boy Scouts are a conspiracy organization as well, or is your hatred specifically for the Catholic Church? Just curious.
I guess priests (popes) do NOT take vows of poverty hey?
The Pope is being paid a pension of about US $3300/month. That is all that he actually owns. He doesn't own the castles, the art, the buildings, his clothes, any of it.
The Pope is not only the spiritual leader of the Catholic Church, he is a head of state and head of government. He is the diplomatic equivalent of a King or President. Hateful, biased, ridiculous NBC news compares his "retirement" package to that of an "ordinary" American only to fan hatred toward the Church. If we are going to fairly compare retirement packages, we could compare the Pope to a President of the United States. When President Obama retires he will certainly receive a lifetime pension well in excess of $3300/month. Additionally he will, for his lifetime have Secret Service protection worth $20 to $30 million annually. He will also promptly go on the speaking circuit where he will draw $50,000 to $100,000 per engagement.
Try, just try once in your life actually thinking.
Joe Mike, the President of the United States does not determine whether or not he gets secret service protection. Also, he gets it for 10 years, period. Not the rest of his life. Please provide link to the "$20-30 Million annually" figure you quoted.
Genafan: They do not take vows of poverty. Most Monks and Nuns take those types of vows.
IAMMY OWN WOMAN:
As a cost savings, Congress had ended lifetime security details for former presidents, cutting off Secret Service protection 10 years after a president leaves office. But in the post-9/11 world Congress decided that former chief executives may still be vulnerable and need protection.
On Jan. 11, 2013 President Obama signed the repeal. HR. 6620, the “Former Presidents Protection Act of 2012,” also gives Secret Service protection to former First Ladies and guarantees agents will continue to shadow children of former Presidents until they become 16 years of age.
It no longer ends after 10 years, it's back to a lifetime. I don't know the costs of protecting these presidents, but I'm willing to bet one year's protection costs far more than will be spent on the Pope during his entire lifetime.
Here's a few facts on what a retired president gets.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepresidentandcabinet/a/presretirement.htm
IAM, you can not make a blanket statement about vows of poverty. If you are a parish priest, you generally don't take a vow of poverty, and you do not get a retirement package from the church. Many other priest in an order (Jesuits) do take a vow of poverty and have very little of their own, basically small personal items only. The order provides for the priest in retirement.
Your basically correct on the 10 years, depending on when you went into office, but from now on, you are correct.
Not all priest take a vow of poverty, it depends on the order they are in.
Diocesan priest don't take a vow of poverty and earn a stipend to take care of their daily needs while Religious orders take a vow of poverty.
Some Religious orders take a simple vow and can hold property but cannot spent it on themselves. They can however, pass it on to whomever they chose.
Randy, thank you for a truly up to date piece of information.
The ones who take vows of poverty are nuns. You know, the people who do all of the grunt work and can never hold a position of power, while they're supposed to be instructing other women to keep popping out babies until it kills them.
Thank you Randy for the update I was unware that it was in the works. Jrl: Forgot about the Jesuits. I do not like generalizations and I'm guilty of that in this instance.
Every Parish priest that I have known (over 10 of them) received a very good income, as well as free housing and food, and in a couple of instances a couple of nuns to do the washing, cooking and cleaning. Not saying all of them. You are correct in that they dont receive a pension. But they make enough to put away money in a 401k for their retirement. AND... the ones I have known also collect social security.
I'm actually surprised they can collect SS. I thought their income was tax free, which I thought meant they do not pay into the kitty. However, I do not know so I am not stating this as fact.
Three grand a month sounds like a lot of money to you?
You really should give up that walmart gig.
Yeah, Laura, that's just awfully incorrect. Can you even name an order of nuns? WITHOUT Googling?
4% of priests are pedophiles.
4% of the following are pedophiles:
Rabbis
Protestant ministers
Imams
Basketball coaches
Boy scout leaders
Fathers
Brothers
Uncles
Get the point?
The Church is not running amok with pedophiles. Its great sin was in covering it up and it has paid a dear price for that - in terms of actual dollars and in its honor.
But...if you keep in mind that alllll the other organizations listed above - yes, even the religious ones, continue to do the same...don't you wonder why they haven't received equal damning and equal coverage?
Answer: Because the Church has big coffers. It's a centrally organized single entity. The Baptist minister who has sex with innocent children is merely shunted off to another town, state, street corner church and no huge scandal erupts because their organization is so fragmented - and without a deep purse.
At least the Catholic Church is finally doing something about it. They have the best child protection awareness program available - Virtus - and every single volunteer or member having anything to do with children has to take the course. Other organizations have followed suit.
So to all of you ignorant, anti-Catholic, vengeful people, I say, do your homework and realize that any organization comprised of human beings will have its fallibilities. You can't throw away an entity that does more for hospitals, universities, orphanages, food kitchens, refugees...on and on and on...because of a few evil eggs.
Blessings to the Church and may its new Pope continue to heal it...
Marcia, You will quickly learn that, concerning the Catholic Church, here on Newswhine people are not interested in logic, facts, or sensibility, only hate. But thank you for your factual, realistic post.
In reply to Marcia - I 'get the point' and do not take exception to your implication that priests are human and subject to human foibles, not the least of which is pedophilia. The big difference, in my view, is the church strenuously 'preaches' against such behavior and sets its priests on pedestals of piety, above human frailties. Notwithstanding my non-theistic position, I harbor no ill will to those who have faith in a deity and follow precepts of good moral behavior. I do, however, cringe at the hypocrisy, albeit another of our human traits. I agree with your prayer the church is able to mend its darker side by facing up to the challenge of helping those who need it whether the laity or its priests
Keep the faith - in a secular sense, of course
R. Galli
Edison, NJ
Nice straw man.
The existing evil, right now, is worse than your irrelevant percentages and as such, your backhanded defense of what is indefensible is as despicable as it is immoral. Shame on you.
Look, the Catholic Church puts Church first, not victims first, and this is unambiguously evidenced by the unrivaled obstruction of moral secular justice on every single continent with a country.
The Catholic Church is an over-achiever when it comes to covering up crime, be it money laundering, slave labor or in this case, a GLOBAL conspiracy to thwart justice for priests who rape infants, children, and teenagers.
Put that in your thurible and smoke it.
Correction, we do not set the Priest on a pedestal of piety. As for preaching again something, what would be the point of the Church if they didn't preach against immorality?
In fact most priest will consistently ask for prayers because they know they are sinners like everyone.
There is a priest I know and no matter how many times I see him he always ask that I pray for him.
This is a common mistake most make, we assume that Christians don't screw up like everyone else.
This is not so and many will tell you that Christians are more likely to sin than those who are not Christians.
Why? The devil isn't interested in those who are already doing his deeds. He is interested in those who try to live a life that is focused on God. So his mission is to focus on Christians with the intention of getting them to do sin.
Christians are not perfect. Yes I know some behave that way and unfortunately this is the wrong attitude to project.
IslandGypsy, great point. ALthough much more prevalent than people think, priests are open game when it comes to accusations of pedophilia, but God forbid you mention a rabbi, and you become an instant antisemitic skinhead. Now, as far as the Pope's pension, who cares??? Would MSNBC rather he be thrown out in the gutter as a homeless person after a life in the service of the Church? Why don't they do an article on the obscene multi millions of dollars American CEOs get in their golden parachutes, often after raiding the economy and causing massive economic devastation and never having to face any criminal charges for it???
What's particularly sad is that they haven't even once written about the books he wrote or the donations he has made or the good he has done. All they have focus on is the negative. Typical of the world we live in, we thrive on scandals and the downfall of others.
@Jay...thanks.
People expect better from the church, Marcia, whether it be Catholic or Protestant.
Is it so hard to understand why one religion's books and letters detailing their magic spells and incantations gets less coverage than a global coverup of priestly rapes affecting every country on the planet?
Athiest -more public school teachers are convicted of crimes against children then priests are. Marcia left them off of her list - that percentage is higher than 4 and there are more priests in the world then there are teachers in the US.
The teachers put union ahead of children. The union overachieves in protecting these scum and covering up thier crimes. Got your bong (assuming you don't have thurible)?
On another note, societies that ignore or condemn religions have killed many more people then religions have. How many did the soviets kill? 120 million in less then 100 years - do you think atheists have any regard for life?
I am sorry you hate so much - have you tried speaking to a minister?
NJ Steve,
You're not very good at this are you? Atheism is one thing: lack of a belief in the supernatural.
It doesn't mean denying scientific agricultral practices that starved millions of Soviets like Stalin did. As a former seminary student himself, Stalin's faith-filled regime was more similar to a religion than a system of rational secular humanism. I don't know anyone who would call Stalin a reasonable person who valued evidence for claims.
I don't know if atheists en masse have any regard for life. We aren't organized in that way. I know I value quality of life and most atheists I know really connect with the saying, "atheists believe in life before death."
But the only unifying feature of atheism (this is where you trip up NJSteve) is that we all lack belief in gods/supernatural. Now that you know this, can you stop using this tired argument? Doing so, time and time again, when it's been explained to you now would only go to show that you would rather be a Liar for The Lord than a member of the 21st century valuing honesty.
I've been told that the ONLY reason they have COVERED up their PEDOPHILE PRIEST is: It is VERY DIFFICULT to get YOUNG MEN to the SEMINARY so they can become priests. So.....by COVERING UP their PEDOPHILE sins....THE ERRING priests DO NOT BECOME SYMBOLS of this VERY UNPOPULAR way of life.
It is told that PRIESTS CANNOT marry and raise a family. "They cannot DRINK of this.....DELICIOUS CUP..of PROCREATION..with a woman." So..it is seen as a GREAT SACRIFICE....NOT to be able to EXERCISE their "GOD GIVEN"natural URGE to engage in SEX.
Because they say .......that a FAMILY will INTERFERE with their DAILY DUTIES of PRIESTHOOD. With his PRIESTLY duties.......he will have little or NO TIME for a WIFE and CHILDREN. (This will PROBABLY give him more time to MOLEST children.)
Meanwhile....OTHER CHURCHES and FAITHS do quite well with LETTING their CHURCH LEADERS marry and raise a family.
I hope the NEXT POPE will CHANGE this VERY OUTMODED way of thinking. (No WONDER young CATHOLIC MEN......do NOT want to become priests.)
Ralph,
What evidence could you provide that married priests would cause a decline in pedophilia considering it's not uncommon for pedophiles to be married?
The cancer is the environment. The entire body of the Catholic Church fosters a safe environment for child molesters and as a result attracts child molesters. It's that simple.
To that end, allowing priests to marry would just open up yet another pool of pedophiles to gain entrance.
That child rapists and their protectors are more likely to receive diplomatic asylum in the vatican than a cot in jail suggests to me the cancer is wide-spread and ultimately controlled at the highest levels in the Catholic Church.
You can't compare public school teachers commiting sex crimes with children, vs priests who do so.
There are at least 20 times more teachers, than there are priests(unless you go to the vatican), so the ratio of molestations by priests(and all religious leaders) are probably higher.
Religious leaders are sometimes put on pedestals, which let's them sway their flocks into believing they are above committing sex crimes.
No one knows the exact percentages of Priests being pedophiles. It is speculation at best since the Church sweeps them under the rug and hides that fact. Anyone that does that is part of the criminal element, period. No one but a select few knows what's down in the Vatican Archives either since they absolutely don't want us to know and that is a fact. Thanks to the butler we were given a heads up to some of the devious deeds of this Organization. Let History judge what they are all about.
Atheist, if you were actually attempting to make an argument based solely on logic, why term the texts some people consider holy "magic spell and incantations"? I don't think you're trying to convince anyone, but if you are, you are going about the complete wrong way. I don't see anything you've said that is not your own conjecture. Direct quotes follow:
"The entire body of the Catholic Church fosters a safe environment for child molesters and as a result attracts child molesters. It's that simple."
"That child rapists and their protectors are more likely to receive diplomatic asylum in the vatican than a cot in jail suggests to me the cancer is wide-spread and ultimately controlled at the highest levels in the Catholic Church."
If you're not going to provide facts, then keep your accusations to yourself. No one said the Church was perfect. No one said its hands as pure as the driven snow. But to think that it exists solely to promulgate the lecherous predation of children, and that child molestation is its goal, you need to visit a church sometime. Afterwards, let me know whether the people you met inside are all closet pedophiles.
Why the Pope Really Resigned
www.pointsincase.com/columns/andrei-trostel/why-pope-really-resigned
I wonder where Marcia got her facts from.
I received a good CATHOLIC EDUCATION during my formative years.....11 through 14. It was in St. John Bosco School for boys in Bellflower, California. I will always remember it as one of the happiest days of my life.
In those days.....I NEVER heard of the word PEDOPHILE.....Maybe because none of those PRIESTS and BROTHERS.......ever....bothered me. My MOST DIFFICULT time was in CONFESSION. FATHER CONFESSOR wanted to "know" my DARK side.....or DEEPEST SECRETS. They really wanted to know.......EVERYTHING.
Of course...I wouldn't "KNOW" HOW to explain it to him....I WAS TOO EMBARRASSED. And..they THREATENED....that if I "held" back anything......I would "commit" a MORTAL SIN......a good CANDIDATE for HELL FIRE.
I am now 78 years old. When I "think" back on it.....I am THOROUGHLY convinced that it was the MOST STUPID part of my life. YES...going to "confession". I could have "confessed" DIRECTLY to GOD.....but.....those "CURAS"..would have NONE of it.
The HYPOCRACY of the whole thing was UNIMAGINABLE. The CATHOLIC CHURCH thrives on POMP and CIRCUMSTANCE, HOCUS POCUS, BLACK MAGIC, FALSE THEOLOGY, that PURGATORY exists after Death, (It's NOT in the BIBLE.), PLENARY INDULGENCE....having SOME sins.....FORGIVEN....if you DONATE a little MONEY.....etc.....
They remind me of the STORY of the PHARISEE and the PUBLICAN......with the PHARISEE being the CATHOLIC CHURCH. It's ONE BIG JOKE played on the "FAITHFUL"....those TRUE BELIEVERS, who were "thoroughly" brainwashed as CHILDREN.
I am now....78 years old.....and "know better" what is GOOD for me. THANK GOD for that.
Ralph. I submit to you that you were never a Catholic in spirit. I'm not questioning your experience with John Bosco, I believe you're telling the truth, but you're making the biggest mistake one can make with regard to one's faith and that is, you have allowed a demented man, a priest, come between you and your Church.
This priest, or group of priest's does not represent the entire faith and what it stands for, but you have concluded that it does; your wrong. If you understood the true Church, you would be able to discern that. No question the Church has many problems, but even Jesus himself was tempted by the Devil. You think all these men have stronger wills than the Lord???
What's going on within the Catholic Church has been prophesized, it must happen, Satan is doing everything within his power to destroy but he will be unsuccessful as Jesus predicted. Still what's happening is terrible.
You've exercised your free will as you are entitled too and in the end you will see how that works out for you, and Jesus knows your heart, and if you're sincere, you will find happiness.
Vince,
If you read this 'Thank You". We could use a lot more of these types of post instead of the hate filled crap that is being posted. Its kind of curious that someone had a comment.
Peace....
Any way NBC can think of to take a shot at religion , comparing the Pope to the average social security recipient is a just goofy !
I read the article. I really didn't see it as negative, just a comparison. If I spent as much time on a vocation - "job" - as the Pope did, this would be a very justifiable pension. I really didn't read any 'judgement' or 'value' in the article about the benefits the now former pope receives.
Compare my retirement income to the Popes? That's a laugh. An even bigger laugh is when I compare it to the retirement that will be paid to the do nothing Congress and the Dumbo President. All I can say is at least I did something to earn MY retirement...
the bushleague of incompetence gets a retirement too...are you as clownish about him?
Stay in the forest Ricky.
Can't see the Bushes for the trees, Spybear?
Organized religion of any flavor is evil...its a method to comtrol the sheeple..thats all...
I suppose you're holding back some huge secret that will enlighten the world, huh? Until you decide to reveal it, let the those evil religious institutions continue to feed the homeless and care for the sick.
The Church is the best business model you could ask for.
Tell the people they will go to Hell if you don't give them money every week
and people are stupid enought to believe it. Oh and of course everything is tax free for them but not me.
You get tax write-offs for your donations.
This article ignores the fact that as a priest he has a vow of poverty & thus cannot use that money himself, it would be more accurate to say that is how much money is set aside every month for his care. Think about it, what would he do with $3,300 per month? He isn't going to buy a big screen TV, he isn't going to buy a swimming pool, he isn't going to be going to the casino. Think about it, he isn't going to actually do anything with it that many normal people might. Ignoring that point makes this article meaningless.
A diocesean priest does not take a vow of poverty. Be sure to have you facts straight before you comment publicly.
@Former Pennsylvanian
Precisely...Pope Benedict is a diocesan priest and so did not take a vow of poverty.
What a pathetic website.
So, why did you read, much less post to it?
Just so you could have something to criticize, debbie.
What is the reason for this acticle to even be written?...is it another attempt at pitting one group of people against another? Create even more hate for the Catholic Church? Comparing his "retirement" package to that of a senior in the US? there is no basis for comparison...that's NBC for ya.
I see NO harm in what he is getting! I am not a Catholic don't belong to it. But, I don't see the problem all of you are fighting about is the anything that you won't fight about. Is MONEY the most important thing now come on people all of you got it so easy. Look back into the 1920-1950 not so easy.
I think it is fair that the church sets aside money for a person that dedicated their life to it. The amounts do not seem that egregious and I assume the church is already set up to take care of him as it did before. He probably won't be spending most of that money and it will return to the church.
This is not a comment on the other wasteful spending on the church, just on what has been reported for spending on the former pope's retirement.
I agree. Setting aside the whole Vatican thing...his retirement package is no big deal. The money isn't all that much, but he'll have everything he needs.
Consider the alternative - should they send him packing with nothing but a monthly paycheck? He devoted his life to the church, and thus gave up the option to have a wife or children. He should be taken care of for the rest of his life.
I'm not Catholic, nor do I care for Catholicism and don't even like the idea of a Pope - but since that's the way this organization is set up, it's only right that they provide a comfortable retirement for him.
The article is informative. It is disappointing that it has been presented from an envious tone. Keep up with the Jones and comparison with you have an others don't is called envy , one of the Seven Deadly Sins I believe.
The revenue from his books more than pay for this package.
Was it given to charity or did it go to the Vatican?
I know he donates some of it, don't know if he donates all. For example he gave $250,000 to the Anglican Ordinariate of OLW. he has also donated money to Syrian victims.
it's all a bunch of tax free, man made crap
My God. Where is all the anger coming from? I did not read as much against Clinton for his Lewinsky taken care of on the job, or that much against John Edwards..
Who is without sin (or "wrongdoings") cast the first stone. Hey, when you point a damning finger at someone are not three pointing back at you? OOPS! bad image. Does not the finger point gesture look like a gun? The gesture police are coming.
What penance will that demand?
!
I am unaware of a single social movement that didn't succeed by being roused by anger. Anger at injustice! Please stop telling people who are angry at evil to shut up, because that is truly what you are doing. Remember the saying, well behaved women rarely make history? There is a time and place for anger. And if covering up rape on a global level for generations doesn't warrant it, I don't know what does!
It is moral to be angry at evil and just to desire swift secular justice for those who commit sex crimes against babies. The Catholic Church is an overachiever when it comes to obstructing justice at every single opportunity.
Your backhanded defense of the indefensible is pathetic. Shame on you and shame on all the Catholics who are telling people of good moral will to shut up.
Shame on you!
Social movement? Who are you, Che Guevara?
If Catholics want to be Catholic, let them be Catholic. No one is asking you to be one too if you don't want to.
I am not catholic BUT... $3,000 a month after spending most of his life working at the same place (Catholic church)... I would think he has earned a little more then that....
I hope he gets to stick around for awhile and enjoy it
I think this article is interesting. However, the Pope's retirement should be compared to that of a retiring head of state, e.g. the President of the United States. Because, basically, that is what the Pope is ... a head of state ... who has been in a little longer than most presidents that get a lot more than that.
Give the guy his $3k. The church worked just about every other pope into the grave. Plus he's going to have a lot of lucrative speaking engagement offers from country clubs, business groups, political gatherings, etc.
Just think, you can invoke the favoritism of God for your groups agenda. Think of what that's worth.
Plus look at all the product endorsements. Red shoes? That's just the beginning.
Once again, leave it to MSNBC to come up with an idiotic story to rile people against the pope and the Catholic church. The man worked his entire life for the church, up until 86 years old. This article states most people retire due to health reasons. What a bunch of crap. Most people I know want to retire as soon as they can. Many retire on disabilities if they can. Furthermore, they make it sound like a pension of $3,300 euros is a significant amount of money. Try selling that package to the police, fireman or teacher's union. There would be riots. Pensions for these union workers are much more than that and they receive health benefits for a lifetime. Rather than comparing him to the ordinary retiree, compare him to his peers. He clearly receives the least financial benefits of any of them by far.
3300 euros (more than 4300 bucks US) combined with free room and board and medical care (and clothing, I doubt he will have to pay for his lovely frocks or even his laundry bills) is waaaaaay more than most people get, Randy.
you are forgetting one thing,,,,He is not an ordinary person....he speaks 7 different languages....is more intelligent than 99% of the people on this planet....including heads of states in this world...lets not even talk about the wisdom he brings.....and if your not Catholic, your opinion on this subject does not matter......
This might be the most ridiculous article that I have read on NBC.com. With all that is involved with the historic retirement of the Pope; this is the best story you can come up with.