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Subscribe to RSSWith some investments already feeling the pain of the looming cliff, millions of Americans are at risk of being affected. The first to consider is the expiration of the Bush-era tax cuts, according to CNBC's Jackie Deangelis.
If you’re the type of person who likes to file your income tax return as soon as possible, then you’ve got another reason to be frustrated by the fiscal cliff stalemate in Washington, D.C.
Most of the tax changes being discussed as part of the fiscal cliff negotiations would go into effect in 2013, meaning that taxpayers would first have to account for them when they went to file those tax returns in early 2014.
But a handful of the provisions under discussion could affect Americans’ 2012 taxes. The down-to-the-wire negotiations in the nation's capital could leave the IRS scrambling to adopt the changes in its systems, delaying the agency’s ability to accept some people’s returns.
“Congress oftentimes waits until the last minute to pass legislation, and then that in a turn affects the IRS,” said Bob Meighan, vice president with tax software provider TurboTax.
That's definitely been the case this time around. Just a few days before the end of the year, Congress has not been able to come to an agreement over a series of tax increases that are scheduled to go into effect Jan. 1. President Barack Obama said Friday that he was "modestly optimistic" a deal could still be reached to avert going over the so-called fiscal cliff.
Acting IRS Commissioner Steven T. Miller has already warned that there could be serious filing delays if Congress doesn’t provide a patch for the Alternative Minimum Tax. An IRS spokesman said Friday that the agency did not have any further information beyond the warnings Miller gave to lawmakers in a letter earlier this month.
The AMT is a provision in the tax code that was designed to ensure that wealthy taxpayers have to pay at least a minimum amount of taxes. It was never indexed for inflation, however, so Congress has had to provide temporary fixes over the years to ensure that lower-income taxpayers aren’t affected.
That hasn’t happened yet this year because of the fiscal cliff stalemate. In the letter to House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp earlier this month, Miller, the acting IRS commissioner, warned that if Congress doesn’t provide a patch this year, then the IRS would have to make significant programming changes to account for that.
“In that event, given the magnitude and complexity of the changes needed, I want to reiterate that most taxpayers may not be able to file their 2012 tax returns until late in March of 2013, or even later,” Miller wrote in the Dec. 19 letter.
Miller also warned that as many as 30 million additional taxpayers could be subject to the AMT if a patch isn’t put in place.
For now, Miller said the IRS is acting as if Congress will provide an AMT patch.
Meighan, of TurboTax, said his company also has prepared its software as if a patch will be in place. But he said the company also is ready to switch gears quickly if it must.
Meighan said a few other provisions under discussion as part of the fiscal cliff negotiation could affect a minority of taxpayers in 2012. Those include a deduction teachers get for school supplies they purchase for their classrooms and a tuition and fees deduction that applies to some students.
"It's really gotten to a point now where you have the ideological divisions in the country overlapped now with the partisan divisions," said CNBC's Chief Washington Correspondent John Harwood.
The IRS has had to ask people to delay filing their returns before. In 2010, Congress passed last-minute tax law changes on Dec. 17. As a result, the IRS said it wouldn’t be able to accept returns with itemized deductions until February of 2011 because it needed time to adjust its systems.
If people are forced to wait to file their tax returns, that would also mean a delay in getting tax refunds. Roberton Williams, a senior fellow with the Tax Policy Center, said that in turn could have some effect on the economy because many people count on that money to pay off debt or buy big-ticket items.
If the AMT isn’t patched at all, he noted, that would be an even bigger economic hit because some taxpayers wouldn’t get their expected refund at all.
“That will have a major effect on the economy,” Williams said. “It will be pulling a lot of money out of the economy that people are expecting.”
Despite the Congressional deadlock, experts say they are still assuming a deal will be made to put the patch in place.
“For most people, come 2013 they’ll be able to file their taxes, they’ll get their refund and life goes on,” Meighan said.
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This survey again points out most Americans are bad at math. It should never be a advantage to file in january because you never should be getting much of a refund. You want to owe a very small amount and give that to the government as late as possible.
If you can't save money and are dependent on the government to do it for you though over withholding taxes I would hate to see how they save for retirement.
We always file late because we dread it. It's very complicated and should be made simpler.
John correction it is better to owe Uncle Sam than get any money back..... After all you are then using their money interest free..... Maybe you need some further EDUCATION..... As far as Money Saved, hell of a lot of people do not have to worry about that anymore because it has all been used up surviving..... Maybe you also need to take a look at the real world we live in.....
I am a US citizen
I live in the US
I am retired
I usually pay zero in taxes.
I have lost over 1 million dollars in estimated net worth in th last 4 years.
In another 4 years I will probably be forced into welfare under current Government policies.
I voted for none of the above in the last election. (Write IN)
Yes, a fine government we have. Screws us all the time and makes life miserable because they don't do their job. What a farce this administration is!!
You realize this requires an act from Congress, right shipwrecked?
It's not the Administration - it's the Congress, specifically the House and more specifically, the extreme right wing of the republican party. The administration has proffered many cuts (over a trillion last year) in an attempt to come to some agreement. Hell, Boehner can't even get support for his OWN proposal and, didja notice - McConnell (R-KY) filibustered his OWN proposal. Thes guys can't hit their assses with their own hands, for cryin' out loud.
R. Galli
Edison, NJ
Here is another fiscal cliff.....OBAMACARE, will raise our taxes with a law that will increase the deficit, it will need an army of bureaucrats, thousand of regulations , thousand of people will lose their health benefits and most of them won't be able to keep their doctors. While their support es have thair talking points....no preexisting condition for insurers, insurance extended to 26 yrs and free birth control, all hem could be accomplish with just a couple of bills having Democrats full control of the congress it would be easy to pass , even in bipartisan way. But no, the socialists and Communist from the unions need to take over the control of our health system and put more union government workers to fill the pockets of the greedy fat bosses and fill the chest of the corrupts Democrats law-makers.
Ya got that right beanerg. The problem is the republicon do nothing house. They are the worst performing House ever and this fiscal cliff is their doing and undoing.
Over the cliff with them!
BTW, with interest rates so low it costs me money to leave money in the bank, so I have no problem with letting the government hold onto it interest free. They are a better deal than Wall Street.
All this charade is a political game , between Harry Reid and Obama to bring us to the Fiscal Cliff and then in a couple of months come up with new proposals "to save the middle class" and blame Republicans with the help of the media bias and left wing comunist unions labor crooks . Crystal clear.
I see some of you fools are still drinking the Obama chump juice full of lies and deception and fortified with a dash of clueless.
Taxes are like raindrops, they only dry up on the road
bean
part of Odumbas job is to bring two sides together, but instead he is a divider.
The GOP made some concessions, and when Obumba asked what cuts he would make in return, he said he would give nothing, that the concessions were free.
Odumba is clearly the obstructionist, while the congress is doing what they were elected (by a large margin) to do, no tax increases and spending cuts.
Once again the guvment is giving us a big screwing! They will definately not have delays in taking our money, but, they will have problems with us getting it back!
I would really like to not pay taxes if my money goes to pay fools like we have in Congress hundreds of thousands of dollars to sit on their asses and act like children!
I laugh at people who come on here and say that more taxes for the wealthy will hurt small businesses... that's so funny, like a recession won't hurt small businesses even worse - that will just kill a small business (no customers, no business).
It's a mistake to allow the wealthy to rule our country - all they do is write laws to benefit themselves! But they've priced America's top government positions out of most people's reach so that now only the wealthy have a chance of winning election!
Wait a Minute !?!!?......What do the Tax Rates and all the other Krap for 2013 have anything to do with the Tax Code in place for the year 2012....Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't all the Tax Tables and Credits and Exemptions already "Set in Stone" for the year that is ending....What are they talking about....Retro-active taxes ???.....
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."....Justice Louis Brandeis
While you're fixated with the fiscal cliff scam here's what your freedom loving congressional representatives have been up to.
There's no bickering or partisanship when it comes to attacking civil liberties:
White House, Congress extend police-state FISA law
29 December 2012
A lopsided US Senate vote Friday morning, conducted with virtually no media attention, renewed a law first adopted in 2008 that retroactively authorized illegal spying by the National Security Agency (NSA) on the e-mail and other Internet-based communications of tens of millions of people, both in the United States and around the world.
The FISA Amendments Act of 2012 passed by a 73-23 margin, with large majorities of Democrats (31-20) and Republicans (42-3) supporting it. Four amendments that would have imposed restrictions on NSA spying or required the agency to account for its operations were defeated in roll call votes Thursday and Friday.
The Republican-controlled House of Representatives passed the bill in September, and the Obama administration and Senate Democratic leaders insisted on passing the identical legislation through the Senate, without any amendments, to ensure the bill would go to the White House for presidential signature before the end of the year.
Unlike the massively publicized deadlock over tax increases and budget cuts slated to take effect New Year’s Day (the “fiscal cliff”), the two parties had no difficulty working together to pass legislation to maintain the police-state powers of the American intelligence apparatus.
The rejection of all amendments was not merely a procedural matter. It demonstrated the bipartisan consensus that there should be no check whatsoever on the operations of the vast apparatus of spying and provocation that has been built up on the pretext of the “war on terror.”
One of the amendments would have required the NSA to obtain a warrant to monitor the Internet communications of an American citizen. Another would have shortened the reauthorization period from five years to three. A third would have made public the procedural opinions of the secret FISA court, established under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which outline the scope of the communications monitored by the NSA.
The fourth amendment would have required the NSA to reveal the extent to which it is monitoring the communications of American citizens. The amendment’s author, Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, compared the NSA to the British colonial rulers whose invasion of private homes led to the adoption of the Fourth Amendment prohibition on warrantless government searches. “It wasn’t okay for constables and customs officials to do it in colonial days, and it’s not okay for the National Security Agency to do it today,” he said…
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/12/29/pers-d29.html
who is "thier?" i think you have it backwards, its better to not owe nor receive because it is the government who keeps our money interest free, not the tax-payer, as it is our money not "thiers." we are above the government, not subservient to them.
the failures go to both sides and many politicians. obama is a failed leader because he never had any leadership skills to begin with. boehner is just like any politician, inept and corrupt. reid is worse that boehner because he is not only inept and corrupt, he is a liar and a cheat. both dems and repubs have nothing to offer this country but its downfall and the sheeple population will welcome it
our downfall has been in the making for 100+ years and like every state before us, we will be oppressed by the government we elected.
http://www.constitution.org/cons/constitu.htm
When will this president of the free world, finally grow some balls and LEAD. I'm sick and tired of hearing "they wont work with me" boo @!$%#ing hoo ! you were elected to get the job done, figure something out and do your job..
Obama thinks he is still in the senate and can phone it in and avoid the adult problems gripping this nation. maybe if they told him the golf course had to close because they couldn't afford to keep it open, I bet he would act then !!!
It's amazing we all made it thru the "Great Republican Depression" at all.....now we just need to let the tax breaks for the top 2 percent expire just like Clinton did to create 23 million jobs and balance the federal budget with a surplus. Sad to think if Gore won in 2000 we could have used the surplus created each of the last 12 years to pay off the deficit. Next time never let a republican win any government office and we'll be just fine....
The Fiscal Cliff Illusion
Once you study the history of banking and finance; you will understand that the current US government consists mostly of self serving puppet lap dogs who kowtow to their international banker masters rather than serve the majority of citizens “We The People”. After financing both sides of every war since the conception of the United States, bastardizing commerce with their monetary system monopoly, benefiting only their greed and lust, the international banker cartel says we owe them a national debt. Now they figure they are entitled to take away benefits we worked for like slave laborers, to pay back FIAT money they created from nowhere by slight of hand mystical boga boo. The fiscal cliff is a crock, we owe them less than nothing. In realty those banksters owe us for centuries of illegal immoral unconstitutional monetary system monopolization by war profiteering bean counters; it's historical fact. For keeping our nation in perpetual utter moral default; it is they that are ethically bankrupt, we don't owe them, they owe us. It is time we follow our Constitution, Codes 18 USC § 242 and 42 USC § 1983 demanding a people's monetary system managed by our elected representatives based on the value of work and being humane rather than on corruption, usury and infinite greed.
Under Article 1 Section 8, assigning various powers to Congress, Clause 2 gives our Congress the authority to regulate commerce; impossible once they gave away the control of the monetary system to private international interests. In Clause 4 of this Section, Congress, elected officials, replaceable every two years, are to regulate the value of money, not a private for-profit banker cabal. On to Article 1, Section 9, clause 7: “No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published...” Under the criminal Federal Reserve, there is no public money, just public debt. Coincidentally on the day before the 9/11/01 attacks, Donald Rumsfeld said the Pentagon lost over a trillion dollars. Monetary system monopolizers and war profiteers are the same 'klan'; if not, wouldn't the bankers find out where that money went? The next Clause begins, “ No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States:”. Ben Bernanke, Federal Reserve Chairman is also on the board of the Bank for International Settlements, the national debt is a fleecing of slavery. The Federal Reserve is unconstitutional just like the First Bank charter to the Rothschilds. December 23, 1913 was not the first time we were sold out by our de facto lap dog government. Study Abe Lincoln and greenback interest free US dollars used to finance the Union Civil War effort. Study John F. Kennedy executive order 11110. For a short time, the US Treasury printed money independent of the bankster Reserve. Fair exchange of goods and services. We shall be free at last.
When Americans wake up to the facts, people are not ENTITLED to the jobs of their choosing.
People are not ENTITLED to "toys and leisure time" because they live in this country.
America became the greatest country in the world because America was built on the WORK ETHIC.
America was built on the I AM ENTITLED ETHIC.
When that thinking becomes dominate again in America, then, and only then, America will be BACK ON TRACK to FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Let's ALL HOLD HANDS AND JUMP OFF THE FISCAL CLIFF TOGETHER.
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work, because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation!
Mike in Delray -
You are correct - it should not affect taxes for 2012 - it should only affect withholding estimates for 2013 taxes.
This is just another 'Whoopdedoo' article - but it IS Sunday, so they needed some 'filler' so they pulled this one off the shelf'.
Again we gloss over the fact that none of the politicians in Washington want to find a solution - they want the law to be at fault for raising taxes and cutting programs. They know it has to be done but don't want their hands dirty with any o fthe hard work - they will let time expire and move on blaming each other to be as popular as they can...
And yes the 2012 taxes should be fixed - but let's see what they do folks - never say never... Maybe time for another Revolution?
@Roy ... you and Mike need to review the article again. The tax rates for 2012 ARE set. However, the AMT patch for 2012 is not in place. This potentially affects just about anyone who itemizes deductions. So, this isn't just a "whoopdedo" article. The effect of the stalemate on 2012 taxes is very real.
I am so tired of the partisan bickering in Washington. Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill could sit down and hammer out a budget. So could Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich. What is wrong with the current group? They are acting like school children but their ineptitude affects us all.
Because if you compromise (Republicans) then they don't fund your next election cycle, they remove you from your cabinet position. In short, compromise for the Republicans is getting shunned from your party.
Amen Brother. We should start a petition to tell congress to get to work, act like adults and get the job done. Compromise is what our goverment is about.
Not for nothing, but Newt Gingrich basically shut down the government for a couple of months over the budget in 96 so...We're actually ahead of the game currently. That, at least, hasn't happened yet.
For kkdlik
This President has sat down with the Congressional Heads and given them a definite plan. The bag has been and is now up to Congress.
A simple solution for Congress; you get paid for the work you do, just like the rest of us. They work part time so no benefits and what they produce isn't worth minimum wage. In the words of one of the biggest jerks of all time "Your'e Fired!". And we file our returns as late as possible, we rarely get a refund and I'm going to coast on Uncle Sam's dime for as long as I can.
The GOP led Congress has been acting like horrid students throwing spit-balls ever since Obama was elected. No!-to manners,etiquette, science, the poor, women, minorities, college loans, everything. They are the mouthpiece for the magnificently wealthy who in turn lead international lives both in business and lifestyle. Our nation's troubles, and patriotism itself are of little importance to the international jet-set. They are the new global aristocracy-and they would see their children inherit vast wealth and wield power without having ever worked a day in their lives. You know the story-- and you know which party has made a career of trying to abolish estate taxes....
Katherine, how is it you pathetic liberals think that the POS government is entitled to even one dime of someones estate. 55% after the first million, ARE YOU FOR REAL? Do you have any idea what that would mean to most buisness owners, no I'm sure you don't, just another ignorant jealous liberal.
How about this plan for fixing the so-called "fiscal cliff"! All elected Federal officials, all upper-management in government, and all members of the Supreme Court, federal appelate courts, etc, do not get one red cent until the situation is finally resolved. I also think that the healthcare for Congress, Presidency, and all support workers is stopped. Now maybe the "powers-that-be" might feel the irritation that the rest of us in the country feel. (P.S., this includes all of Obama's secret service detail)!
I seriously think that the reason we see smug smiles on folks like Eric Cantor and other tea partiers is because this is what they wanted to create. They want a dysfunctional government that cannot do anything because in their weird little minds, no government is a good thing.
Huh?
First, I think the inheritance (estate) tax is double taxation and should be done away with.
Second, I think the AMT should go away completely! It is irrational, and it's a pain in the butt! Adjust the tax brackets--don't enforce a secondary tax system.
And third, avoid these last minute showdowns! We have them every year!
Notice here an appropriate opening question / comment and the next comments are partisan BS... Washington politics has taken us away from the issues into a petty bickering match with each side spewing their party's talking points... We are done - no one has their eye on the problem - just yelling at each other... we are done...
Very true. But, then, you didn't have a subset of Democrats get into a funk over the election of Reagan and refuse to pass any legislation that wasn't EXACTLY the way they wanted it. The Tea Party and the religious right have poisoned our political system.
.....
We're just going to try to enjoy our return this year because next year we likely won't be getting one thanks to the scumbags in the house of representatives. Nothing but a bunch of bickering children as far as I'm concerned. Too bad we'll all have to suffer because of it. Sorry to sound bitter but I don't know how else to react to our current crop of politicians.
So sorry for you. Actually, the Representatives are doing what they were sent to DC to do - try to put a stop to the excessive spending.
I wouldn't count on getting a return anyway if democrats get their way, all they ever want to do is raise taxes. However, even confiscating all of the wealth of the top 10 percent of the population would not stop the deficit spending this administration does.
Who do you think they will come after when they finally figure that out?
The wealthiest 400 Americans have a combined net worth of 1.5 trillion. More than half the rest of the country. That's FOUR HUNDRED PEOPLE. If you confiscated the wealth of the top 10% you could literally fund the country for the next 50 years without taking in another dollar. I wouldn't suggest such a thing as a practical choice, but I mean let's at least be honest about how much wealth has accumulated at the top.
The democrats are actually fighting to keep the middle class tax rates where they are. It's your own constituents, the republicans, that want to raise your taxes. Do some research before you point fingers.
????? 1.5 trillion wouldnt bring the debt down but to like 14.5 trillion. We owe over 16 trillion not sure wtf your refering to.
Hey, John, the Republicans are also fighting to keep the middle class tax rates the same. All that they are not doing is trying to create class hatred for the producers in this country (like Obama and the Democrats)!
To Dan """
who created the class hatred...
"Here's another 'fiscal cliff' worry: tax-filing delays"
It takes a government to really screw things up.
Why doesn't Obama decree that the IRS will maintain the status quo and will not raise rates on all but the highest earners? He has done this in the past with decreeing that they will not prosecute illegal aliens, that large groups of people here illegally can stay. What would the difference be?
Deportation is an act of the government, taxes are to be paid voluntarily. The government doesn't come and ask for your tax return, the law says you should send it on your own.
The timeframe is also dictated by the law, and the President cannot change it. He can only instruct the IRS to prioritize prosecution, which he might do if it comes to it. He cannot change the law, only change the priorities in which laws to enforce first.
It is the Congress who is in charge of changing laws, and with regards to the budgets - the House of Representatives. I.e.: Talk to the Republicans.
Tax all churches below the Mason Dixon line, must be a million of them. Use that money to pay down the debt, probably in less than a decade.
How about taxing all of the liberal think-tanks and unions who are getting Billions from our taxes and forced union dues! Sounds just as logical and there is probably one hell of a lot more money to get!
@Dan if it includes all the Republican SuperPAC's - go for it. Tax them all, not only those you don't like.
Not to worry. The banker-owned Federal Reserve will get the debt ceiling raised and the common man will rejoice as another link is added to his chains. Where will the money come from? The Fed will print it of course and own us in the process.
Here is what IRS must do, give them ultimatum that whatever tax law in place on the last day of October is what is going to be used for the next year. This kind of political bullsh!t is none of their business and should be kept that way.
I'm almost certain that the IRS doesn't make demands of Congress. The IRS is in the Treasury Department. They are responsible for putting out the tax forms, and there's a bunch of them to be sure, and for collecting the taxes. They do not give orders to Congress, they take them. Congress decides what the tax code is, the IRS sees that their part of it is done. Until Congress gives the IRS direction, there isn't anything they can do, except keep proceeding on old business.
Jim in Auburn, even though brain dead liberals want to think of Obama as a King and a messiah, he isn't. He does not have the powers to do that and thank god for that.
IRS has no power on its own to make the tax laws, only to implement and enforce them. That's why every year IRS gets jerked around until Dec. 31 and has to delay filing while updating last-minute forms.
They always compremise. If everyone would file for an extension that might get the governments attention...doubt it tho...just sayin
I suppose you could that, but I asked my accountant about it once and he told me that everything I owed had better be paid before April 15, or the penalties would be severe. You can't just use an extension to avoid the April 15 deadline for paying your taxes.
how about everyone in this country not pay their taxes, until we have a balanced budget amendment, and a new simplified tax code.
Justredd, the only problem with filing for an extension is that it only gives you more time to file the forms, you still have to send in what you think you owe by April 15. Of course, they can't send you a refund until you send in the forms.
Jiminwyo, the absolutely last thing you want to do is not pay your taxes. Congress figured that one out long ago--and the government can take everything you have to collect unpaid taxes. They can sell your house, put liens on your property, take all the cash out of your bank accounts, and take your wages, too. All of this is legal for the government to do. If you file bankruptcy, IRS will get paid before your lawyers get paid. It is a "world of hurt" to have IRS on your tail...
JayEll,
Don't get me wrong I have no problem with paying taxes, or with helping those who are not as fortunate as I am. All I am trying to say is that I work my butt off to keep my company in the black and keep people working. All I get is the government with their hand out demanding more money to support their addiction to spending. Before the government comes with their hand out wanting more, they should exhaust all means first.
All foreign aid should have been redirected to those in need in this country first and then if any was left it could be spent in other ways, UN funding should be the same way, there are so many different ways to have funded a lot of this deficit than to demand that we pay more in taxes.
Let the whole damn system crash. How else is it going to get fixed? These clowns aren't up to the challenge... and haven't been for decades, and we're obviously not up to the challenge of voting in anyone willing to make hard decisions that will impact us. If taxes are raised, it means more money to spend, and there are plenty of programs with lobbyists waiting in the wings. If they make cuts, they will never be able to come up with enough cuts to make a dent in the deficit much less the national debt. If it crashes, we get to go broke for a bit, and hopefully learn the lesson we should have over 40 years ago. To hell with the system... it's too corrupt to work.
I always plan to owe the IRS a small amount. That way the government is not holding any of my money that I have to wait on getting back.
Peter17, a wise move--but for many people, the only way they can manage to "save" any money is through withholding and getting a big refund. The more logical thing would be to lower withholding and then have automatic transfer of money into a savings account. But for folks like these, if they can see the money and withdraw it, they spend it. It's a hard habit to break.
cut off all dead beats and lazy bums from all entitlements like obama phones cost to us working tax payers 1.6 billion cell phone plans
Sounds like the ones on welfare are the only people that are not affected by the cliff.
They pay no taxes and their benefits won't get cut. They will just continue to sit around and gnaw on the gubment cheese.
426.00 2 kids 2 adults verizon unlimited, but i'm sure it's free for the dead beats
Considering most people on welfare also work...I'm sure they are just as invested.
They're poor, not uninvolved.
Also anyone paying that much for a phone is insane I hope that's a yearly total.
The government phone program has been around for around a half a century. It was expanded to cell phones under Bush in 2008, not Obama.
You people reach for anything to blame on Obama. Even things that went on before he was in office. It does nothing but illuminate your true colors.
Braindead, you again spewing lies. The lifeline (phone program) was signed by Bill Clinton that is not 50 years ago.
For all you fools yelling about lifeline telephones, including cells, and entitlements. Put your cells down for a minute and read. I already know you can't spell or write a sentence. Five years in the first grade and then you quit?
First of all, take a look at your paystubs, although I doubt many get one. Those entitlements you bitch about are Social Security, which you pay for along with your employer and Medicare, which you also pay for. Then look at the bill, not just the total owed, for that same cell phone. There's a tax, mandated by the Federal Government, that pays for lifeline service. Plus all the other taxes that you probably can't figure, since I can't. And don't ask them at the phone company, they don't know what at least half of them are for either. Then Verizon, ATT, Sprint, whoever, adds in their own little goodies. That's their tax to you, although they won't admit it. Most people getting lifeline phoes, land or cell, can do nothing but call 911. If they want more, they pay and get no lifeline phone.
I paid in to Social Security since I was 12, and now that I draw it, I certainly feel entitled to my money back. I also paid Medicare taxes, so I feel that belongs to me, at least as much as the Feds let me have. I pay abut $100 for Part B, at least 20 percent for copay, then on Part D, I have more copays. None of this is free, and since I paid for it, and still am, I definitely feel entitled to my share of it. Doctors don't lower their fees for me. So my 20 percent is probably about the same as you that have insurance pay. I don't get dental or vision insurance, I have to buy it on the open market. So I don't, since it is prohibitive.
So quit bitching all of you. I get nothing for free. I paid into SS and Medicare, make co-pays on medicine and doctors visits. I get absolutely nothing that I either didn't pay for or am still paying for in copays and amounts I pay for that insurance'. When people reach whatever age retirement is by then, they'll have paid in all their working lives.
So no, these aren't entitlements. I bought and paid for them through taxes and still pay.
Incidentally, I have a cell phone, use nothing else, inasmuch as I find I can take it with me, not miss an important call and make a call whereever it's safe to do so. I do not text when driving, nor do I answer the phone. Both take my concentration from driving and I don't feel like being a statistic due to my stupidity or feeling that since I pay for the phone I can use it any time I want to, however I want to. I feel I need to watch out for all you asses that do those dangerous things to attempt to keep me alive for as long as possible. Texting and talking while driving are entirtlements I don't want.
And I do pay for that cell phone out of my retirement.
How many of you ranters have ever had to use government assistance? Many people on government assistance are not deadbeats. They are working poor. Try walking in their shoes. Maybe if our politicians were actually middle class and not among the wealthiest, we would have more compromise.
Subsidized phone service for poor people has been going on since people had rotary phones. Expansion to service on prepaid cell phones was done by Bush in 2008. Look it up.
I don't care if Bush or Obama came up with the idea of free phones for anyone. It's still a waste of money.
I don't care if Bush or Obama came up with the idea of free phones for anyone. It's still a waste of money.
And I'm sure your next comment is they should go get a job. Something that's hard to do without internet service nowadays, next to impossible if you can't be reached by phone. So in the end, what actually cost more?
“Witnessing the Republicans and the Democrats bicker over the U.S. debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic.”
Says it all.
I'm sitting here flipping a coin, doing eenie-meanie-miney-more,....."hmmmm, which institution would I most like to see abolished; The Fed or the IRS?" .....BOTH!
I refuse to give the Federal or state government any more than I expect will be do in April. I recalculate my taxes quarterly and when the time comes its 98% accurate. Using tax collectors as a savings bank (refund) is just plain nonsense.
F the fiscal cliff, how many in the post make 250,000.00
The real discussion isn't the first $250,000....it's the amount above that they can't agree on. It isn't like they'll be slapped hard right from the first dollar!
I seriously think they are all a bunch of bums on Capitol Hill starting with are great President!!!!
Well, you're an idiot. Not to insult, but if you payed any attention, almost all of the gridlock in Washington over the past 4 years is because of republicans in the House who don't want the president getting credit for any good that happens. First their goal was to make him a one term president in hopes of getting the White House back. Now they just want to screw things up and hope they can pin the blame on Dems to get the White House back. None of their plans on debt actually reduce the debt. They just want to shift more of the burden to lower income brackets.
Yeah, let's cut off all of the deadbeats that pay no income taxes! Umm, guess what? They are republicons! Republicons are the real welfare queens that everyone is complaing about.
There is plenty of proof out there that shows that it is us hard working tax paying Democrats that are supporting those deadbeat republicons.
The National Memo » The GOP Is The Food Stamp Party
Nice Democratic Spin on an Obama lie
Look how well the Democrat controlled state of California is doing. Voted the worst run state in the country for the past 2 years over it's debt issues. So the Republicans don't hold ALL the blame, the Democrats are just as responsible
I also refuse to give the government more than the minimum I have to pay as I go to avoid underpayment penalties and interest. Since I owe them money each year of course I always file at the very last minute. If people who get refunds want to overpay as they go so they can get back a slug of their own money early in the year, maybe it's like the old Christmas clubs used to be-- a forced way to save. But if these people are the backbone of our economy, God help us all.
In order for msnbc and other facets of the media to make this "fiscal cliff" as scary as possible, we need to be shown images of the boogie man.
bwhaaaaaa haaaaa haaaaa
That would be Nobama !
Not the boogie man.......just a realistic explanation of the way things work. That concept is so foreign nowadays that people can't understand it.......it's become more like a sports event with everyone cheering for their team....even though they don't realize we're all on the SAME TEAM in the end.