Twinkies kill people the same way that shrimp, fish, beef and vegetables kill people. For the uninformed - neither twinkies or any other inanimate object jumps off the table and into your mouth.

From the reports I have seen, it looks like Grupo Bimbo in Mexico has the inside track on acquiring many of the non-physical assets of Hostess, including the Twinkie brand. I doubt that they would be interested in the US facilities as they can make the products far cheaper south of the border, particularly because they do not have to deal with unions or the high US sugar tariffs. This is clearly a case of greed killing another iconic American company. Whether you believe it was the greedy unions or greedy management, there is no doubt that it is greed that killed the company. I do think that it was pretty absurd for the union to do what they did. They forced the company into liquidation because they were not willing to work with the company to save the business. Instead of being thankful for having jobs at all, the union got greedy and demanded more than the company could afford to pay. I feel sorry for the many employees of other unions who were working with the company as well as the many bakers in the BCTGM union who did not want to strike. Now they are all looking at the holidays with no paychecks at all, instead of ones that were just a little smaller. Of course the union bosses who pushed the strike will not take the hit with the employees, they still have plenty of other members to pay dues to support their ridiculous salaries and perks.

Nothing to do with unions - unless you consider actually paying the workers that make the products they sell to be the root of all evil. Curious that after their SECOND Chapter 11 filing in the last 8 years they found enough $$ to triple the "salaries" of the Board of Directors members.

Just plain and simple LOTS of bad decisions made by that same BoD that killed them. A 40-year old business model with the same products the made in 1970. No changes, constantly decreasing market share, the same delivery model they had 40 years ago - THAT's what killed them.

Sure they could probably go on for another few weeks - but not much longer - if the unions agreed to work for free. Would YOU work for free?

Paying off their previous Chapter 11 debt & interest costs - with an ever-decreasing market share - is what killed them. I blame ALL of that on upper management.

I haven't eaten (or purchased) a Hostess product in 30+ years. How may did YOU buy last month?

mike

the AP reported that the average worker was making $46k a year and the unions wanted a 12% pay increase and some pension guarentees and when the hostess CEO said they can't afford it ! the union threaten a walk off

I sure would like to see a reference for those figures. Sound more like you got them from bulls@#it mountain (fox news).The company hasn't talked to the unions since August. They wanted the unions to take an 8% pay cut. This while asking for millions in bonuses for the management people.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-11-19/hostess-judge-asks-for-mediation-sessions-over-strike

"This is Awesome"...? Everybody go on strike or quit your job and show the Man who's boss.

I'll laugh my ass off if all those people who ran out so they could hoard snack cakes did so for nothing. It certainly boosted sales. Like how they slipped a mention of Dan White murdering Harvey Milk and San Fran mayor George Moscone in the article.

lol I'm more worried about Ho-Hos!

I just read a story where the president of the union said he's hoping someone will come forward, buy the twinkie brand, and save all the union members' jobs. Most likely someone WILL come forward and buy the company ASSETS, including the name, the equipment, and the distribution channels and will then go someplace else and make twinkies WITHOUT the union workers. These guys don't get that the reason hostess can't make a profit is BECAUSE of the labor and benefit rates. Why would anyone in their right mind buy hostess and then keep all the unprofitable structures in place?! They won't. Someone else will have these peoples' jobs, and we will still have twinkies to eat.

I hope they don't save it and all these union pukes lose their jobs.

If I had the money, I'd buy the plant and everything inside of it. Then I would reopen the plant. WITHOUT ANY BLOOD SUCKING UNIONS.

Wait a second, isn't this union a member or offshoot of the teamsters union? Well maybe I won't buy them and shut out the unions. Cause I'd endup dead like Jimmy H.

BigAl -

Actually it's Ripplewood Holdings that has the Bain Capital role in this one. Tim Collins, Democratic supporter, through Dick Gephardt, you might remember him as running for the Democratic nomination in '04.

Another union casualty. I know a place that if the supervisor picked something up off the floor, the unions filed a grievance because that "wasn't their job"- and the lazy K (Kaiser) who went out of business due to unions. They couldn't even ask a line worker to run a piece of paper up to the office because it "wasn't their job". Unions are nothing more than a greedy, corrupt corporation now.

There's enough blame to go around. The big boys got their palms greased while the union bosses decide to play a game of chicken. Guess who'll get it in between the eyes? The rank and file who'll lose their jobs with no safety net. You know the union boys are going to get paid. How ludicrous to have two different delivery methods for two different products ~ who negotiated that contract?

The boomers remember getting one of those snacks in their bagged lunches back in the day. Good to know there's still a demand for them.

Seems odd that over all these years (I'm 64 now), I've run into very few people including myself that actually like Twinkies. Although I'm a huge fan of Ding Dongs and Hostess cup cakes, I've always thought Twinkies were awful (although much better than Snowballs). I won't miss the Twinkie at all but now Ding Dongs, that's a different story.

Jake, are you serious? Take down the company. do you honestly think the people at the top are going to have a lifestyle change because the company went out of business? They are not. They are wealthy beyond wealthy and will go on with their lives, running other companies. However, the union workers that "stood up for themselves" are now facing unemployment through the holidays. Hope nobody stands up for me in that manner.

Send the twinkies to gitmo and waterboard them

I read where several companies are eyeing the Hostess takeover. If this does happen either the union will not be a part of it or the Hostess plants may be relocated where there are no unions. Either way please please do not change the recipes. But I will not buy Mexican (Bimbo) snowballs or Ding Dongs. Hostess is an American icon. We all grew up with them. The irony is that Colorado has legalized recreational marijuana and now there are no twinkies and cupcakes. LOL But we still have the Cheetos and Goldfish crackers Governor Hickenlooper mentioned. And ice cream.

Excellent article from someone who actually works for Hostess and what he's been through . . . .

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/18/1162822/-Hostess-Bakery-Behind-the-pillaging-and-sacking-of-another-famous-American-brand

There's always more to the story when you talk to the workers . . .

Who cares? There are alternatives to most of what hostess makes.

The Twinkie must survive. It is iconic! It's made its way into movies and TV. How will future generations understand that line that begins "Imagine a Twinkie..." in Ghost Busters if the Twinkie goes away.

Might have just brought my last package of Twinkies today..going to have them bronzed like my baby booties.

It's amazing how the rich have been able to convince so many of the poor to believe things that are not in the their best interest. I guess what they say is true. You can always pay half the poor to keep the other half down. Poor suckers don't even seem to be able to see they're being used. Is it any wonder it's same portion that are also used through their religious beliefs to make the church richer? P.T. Barnum and David Hannum had it right.

I can't wait to have a Gruppo Bimbo Twinkie made in good old Mexico. Will it taste good filled with salsa?

How about a Cancun Cupcake?

Bye bye Hostess! Bye bye Twinkies! Bye bye 18,000 union fools! Good luck at the unemployment line!

It will be scary if they make them in Mexico. They will often be contaminated with Listeria.

@Some Lame Name Here - Come on, what's the problem? The average employee of Hostess made around $166 a day while several of their CEO's made around $600,000 a day. Oh, wait, that would mean for the company to make a profit each day, they would have to make enough to not only pay each of their nearly 20,000 employees, but several million dollars a day just to pay their top bosses. Then everything else can go into profits. Well, of course less the amount for electricity and other utilities each day, then there are taxes and all the rest. Ya, I guess their management were still on the old buddy-buddy system where the wealthy get the bulk of the income and are paid 3600 times more than their average employees. That doesn't mean they do 3600 times more work than their employees - they only get to have 3600 times the fun without any of the worries of paying their bills and health care. Does anyone really think anyone out-works them by 3600 times and so deserves to make that much more money then you do? Had their CEO's and other top bosses been earning reasonable salaries, there would be no reason for this company to go out of business.

I hope every former union employee there has a REAL HARD TIME finding a job now. If I owned a bakery and one of these goons applied for a position in my company, I'd tell him to go pound sand and get your unemployment check (because after all, Nancy Pelosi said that unemployment checks create jobs!).

Unions choked off Hostess as sure as the sky is blue. Eight of Hostess’ top ten creditors are pension funds. UNION MANDATED pension funds. It owes almost $1 BILLION to the Bakery & Confectionery Union & Industry International Pension Fund alone. Keep that figure in mind when you hear liberals whining about the previous CEO's pay raise to $2.55 million. Further, the new CEO brought in earlier this year dropped the salaries for four top executives to $1 for the remainder of the year.

The average employee of Hostess made around $166 a day while several of their CEO's made around $600,000 a day.

@Khan - hyperbole much there, brainac? $600k/day is $13 million a month. The last CEO got a raise from $750k to $2.55 million as I stated above. You liberals do a lot of pathetic things, but you lie pathetically the most. And another thing: it's none of YOUR business what executives get paid.

@Larry-2260635, you and everyone like you (holier than thou busy bodies) need to mind your own business! It's not up to you whether a person chooses to eat or drink foods that are unhealthy! I bet you were all for the ban on 32 oz. sodas in NY too weren't you?

We don't need you or anyone else policing our food and drink! I had a Daddy. He did a fine job of raising me and I sure as hell don't want or need you to step in and take his place.

Stay the hell out of my kitchen and my grocery shopping choices!!!!

TheKhanKubla

So I go to the Yankees game and watch A Rod sit on the bench and make $30,000,000 a year. The guying selling beers is sweating his a$$ off making $30,000 a year. He made 1 /1000 th of what A Rod did, but I really like the beer guy better. Especially if he is selling Corona....from Mexico!!!

Ever notice how liberals never whine about outrageous athlete pay and Hollywood star pay? Two-faced hypocrites.

"the company is asking for permission to pay $1.75 million in retention bonuses to 19 different managers as an incentive for sticking around during the liquidation process" Wonder how the business operations and Union employees could benefit from $1.75 million.

And the ding dong. Love those things.

Hostess--the company that killed more Americans to diabetes than World War Two. It's hard to root for them. Send it to Mexico, and get a more lethal yummy treat, complete with all nasty sorts of germs under lax Mexican regulations. It will kill even more Americans.

Jhawke, it's time you changed your profile picture, for one thing. I know it's hard when your candidate loses, but you have nothing to gain by being bitter and vile. Secondly, I know plenty who complain about athlete & move star pay when it results in "the little people" getting screwed over. What I really don't understand is how you think it's OK that Hostess CEOs raised their salaries more than 300% AFTER filing for Bankruptcy for the SECOND time, while asking their employees to take a pay cut and forgo their pensions and health care, but somehow union members protesting this makes them "whiny". I suppose you have a valid reason for thinking that's acceptable given today's economy, I'd just like to know what it is. Perhaps you're right, maybe we should just abolish unions and go back to the days where children were locked in sweatshops for 18 hours a day in appalling conditions, and you were just as likely to get human appendages and rats in your canned food as you were real meat.

Wow jscusmc69 i have never said this to anyone online or in person before. But for the love of GOD get yourself some help before you flip out and kill people, or if you have already PLEASE start taking your meds. This company has been in trouble for almost a decade. they received 3 cash infusions from venture capitalists, the union had already took a pay cut before and yet salaries at the top never stopped growing. But you keep believing its all Obama's fault, maybe the boogieman is coming for you next, you better hide.

@eboniteprince

You read that wrong. The retention bonus's is to keep managers from rabbiting and getting jobs elsewhere. When a ship is sinking the first people out typically get the best jobs, once there is a rush of people exiting they all have to compete against each other for whatever the first guys didn't take. So if any of the management, from low level to department heads stay they would be taking a risk of being without a job after the liquidation. Thus the payments are to keep the managers around so they can liquidate the company in an orderly fashion.

Unions have their place, they ensured works were not working under slave conditions nor in dangerous environments. Unfortunately after winning the war on management they couldn't put down their rifles nor stop their drums, they had to continue on "fighting" a war that was already over. Of course the senior union leaders getting paid more then CEO's had much to do with the continued effort, they didn't want to disband their miniature empires.

1.75 million to the top management in retention bonuses might seem like a lot of money, but do the math.. 16,300 employees.. that is less than $110 per employee.. That is what the libs here don't understand.. the 2.25 million the CEO made is a DROP IN THE BUCKET.. the unions are asking for tens of millions of dollars in pay raises and benefits.. the median income for IBC is around $40k per year.. times 16,300 union workers.. that is $652 million dollars. And that is JUST SALARY.. add the matching fica tax, the insanely high workmans comp insurance for factory workers, and then tack on benefits on top of that, which are more than doubling in cost under Obamacare over the next 4 years, and for every dollar you pay in salary you are paying 50 cents or more, so the union salary can top over a billion alone. For a company that has SALES of 1.2 billion per year, a billion in wages and benefits does NOT ADD UP. Under NO circumstances whatsoever would a few million in upper management salaries make even the slightest difference. Even having the top officers of the company work for $1 per year would impact the books about as much as cutting 100 billion from our country's budget would do.. NOTHING WHATSOEVER.

Before you go off half cocked on a rampage about the "1%" causing the problems here, do the math and realize that the REAL problem is you have people making BREAD for $18 per hour WITH benefits. They were offered to take an 8% salary cut that would be repaid at 3% per year plus 1% on the third year, netting out to a 2% raise in 3 years. They were asked to pay up to 20% of the benefits that the company has been paying for them, when MOST employees in the U.S. are paying 50% MORE than they were 5 years ago. Under Obamacare, conservative estimates put employee medical benefit costs increasing 130% over the next 4 years, and this company wants a mere 20% of those costs to come from the already overpaid employees..

Almost everyone I know took a 20-40% pay cut at the beginning of 2009, and most of those who didn't ended up in the unemployment line. Every one of those people would have taken a mere 8% cut to keep their job. I personally took a 40% cut and to date have only made up 30% of it.. and my company is doing well.. I can't even imagine how the employees in those companies NOT doing well are being paid.

Yes, the management of this company will eventually lose their jobs. yes, they made more than the factory workers did. Yes, they will have jobs longer and probably get contractual payouts that were negotiated when they took the jobs. No, they will not be "set for life", they will be unemployed just like the other 18,300 people. Yes, they will have a better chance at a job for the same reason they got the job they had in the first place. Yes, the companies that bought the debt in the last bankruptcy will benefit from liquidation because they will finally get paid, but then they put up the money to keep 18,000 employees in a job for the last 5 years, so I think they are entitled. I don't see YOU putting up any money to help a company keep employees, mister liberal. If I decide to invest in a company, I want a return, it is the reason I take my hard earned money and invest it instead of putting it in my safe. I suppose you invest your money with the intent of losing it when a company starts to go belly up? Anyone here with a 401k, an interest bearing savings account, an IRA, or even a CD at your local bank are INVESTORS. You are SHAREHOLDERS in SOME company SOMEWHERE. Do you think the bank or management company just sits on your money and then pays you after a few years?? Almost EVERYONE here is a shareholder in some publicly traded company, and hence benefits when "wall street" does well. When you demonize the "1%", you are demonizing yourself, because if you work, have money saved, have money invested, or even collect welfare from the government, at the source of the money you get is a CEO, a wall street investor, a dividend, a corporation, and/or a shareholder (ie the "1%").

BTW, this isn't about twinkies... it is about jobs. It is about going to WalMart for groceries and not being able to buy a loaf of white bread because there is an IBC factory in your city that is no longer making the 90% of white bread sold in your city. It is about Unions and greed. It is about a lot of things, and twinkies are the least of the problem.

Sad, how so many people have spouted out the same incorrect info, regarding salaries.

First, the CEO, hired AFTER they requested BK, Ch 11 for $100,000. Why? Because the one before him jumped ship...

Soo, in an attempt to keep them, they floated the IDEA of Incentive bonuses... and requested approval... note, not approved, never paid out, never received...

The guys running the company were each making less than 1/3rd what the Union brass are pulling down, and that's before they get their "contract provided" bonuses.

Just because someone posted that they were paying millions, does not mean anything, the information is public...

It's also very much part of court record, and anyone with a brain can figure out that IF they were paying out those accused salaries, the Union would have made it a key point in arguing against the liquidation.

In other words, when you ASSUME you are being fed accurate information, and fail to make sure... well, you know the saying.

I will not buy a mexican twinkie, I love twinkies and I love america... twinkie is american if it becomes mexican it will never again pass my lips. That said I hope mediation is successful and that it helps save hostess and its associated jobs. I hope the union that made it go this far gets disbanded.

I was with you on not buying Mexican Twinkies, Idaho. As for the Baker's Union, they're representing workers that are having all their benefits stripped from them, including refusing to pay into pension, which is part of a contract THEY SIGNED, just so they can keep inflating the CEO's pay. You'd probably be mad as well if they took all your benefits away.

That or you're one of those people that stays at home and is under the medical coverage of your husband, which also goes to your kids. Gosh, I wonder what happened if the company your husband worked at stripped him of all his benefits, then demanded he work longer hours for less! Face it, you'd be screaming just as loud if it were you. There's nothing patriotic in supporting tyranny and corruption.

My cousin was investing big in the last remaining Twinkies in hopes of cashing in later...

looks like no more cream filled "ding dongs",sno balls and twinkies ,going inside those "ho ho's &suzy Q's

Other than the listening to the same ole nutty Obama haters i wouldn't have even read the damn article. The right doesn't and will not get it. Twinkies? Yuck! The worker is deemed a nothing. At some point, maybe a nationwide walk off will be the only thing they will listen to. Never thought i would say such a thing.

@JSCUSMC69, I'm sick to death of you Obama bashers that have to throw in your tirade simply because you see a sign that says, "Place comments here." You couldn't even come up with a viable comment about the story. You just wanna see your dumb ass nom de plume in print. Who did you bash before you had Obama, anyway? Bet you can't even remember. Quit your whining. Your (for some reason) favorite LOST the election. Get over it. You're making a BIG fool of yourself. Leave a comment about the story or go away.

Now, about the story, it's galling to see how much money management and Boards of Directors take when it's the worker bees doing all the work. Then when upper management decides it's time to scale back costs, it's never even middle management that gets escorted to the door. Any business you care to name always has 3 clipboard holders standing around watching 1 guy doing the work. Trim some of that management fat, tell the union bosses to go jump and get those workers earning paychecks and paying taxes again.

let the CEO's eat cake...

uhhh mike have you really read up on the hostess situation? Who is greedy? the workers who didn't want a pay and benefit cut? The average worker like you and me who just wants to make an honest living? If the workers were greedy for NOT wanting their pay and benefits cut, how greedy do you view the CEOS that doubled their pay many times into the millions all the while saying that they were going broke and had to cut wages... seriously its the common person thats greedy? You have got to be kidding. As Your parties rednecks say; heres your sign. It sad that unions must exist to keep ceos from screwing everyone over but themselves and share holders. I mean Fuc* the worker right? Fuc* all the average people that make little already in comparison to the elite. when will you guys take your sticks out and realize you are sticking up for people that could give two shi*s about the average person including YOU! to them you are nothing more that a cockroach doing their bidding. If it was cheaper, they would and are hiring robots to do what humans are doing. My ex husband worked for a company with a union. Every couple months the company would say they had to cut pay and benefits because they were going broke, layoffs and everything but the union stepped in every time and saved his job. We have a young daughter to support and we both worked regular jobs. No one lazy or needing handouts here fyi. This was all so that the fat cat CEO Bob could keep paying his alimony checks to his 4 ex wives and keep his 3 MANSIONS in ca alone. Please save the bull for someone who cares. I know whats really going on here why are you conservatives so blind? The worker is greedy really? my husband was greedy cus he wanted to keep making 10 and hour all while bob was making millions and had 3 houses? Really greedy? wtf are you talking about? The only thing i would say is wrong with unions is that they aren't being affective enough and I'm sure plenty of the reps are pocketing money too. Greed is everywhere folks, don't blame the working bee.

Julia Sugarbaker, If anyone is barking at the President it is because ObamaCare's cost to the 1%er's, in this case Hostess, is a factor in the companies profit margin to stay in business. They are also bitching because the President is a Union puppet. Obama took the Union's campaign money so it's like being a little bit pregnant. It has all to do with politics nowadays. The Teachers Unions are getting all they want. Plus a 3% adjustable cost of living annual pension pay increase no matter what the tax payers can afford! Most Union workers get an amount per month when they retire,like myself,no one get's a cost of living raise! Our Union Trade was told that we were taking a 25% decrease in pay for residential construction in '10. Hostess was asking for 8% and they blinked? But you never know who to believe when it comes to Union negotiations. In the mid 90's Kraft Foods in Chicago told it's workers we have to cut wages and be more productive. They answered the call, no pay raises for 3 yrs. and put Kraft so far in the black that they were able to sell out to Phillip Morris! Julia dont give a $hit about the President being called out here,he surely doesn't give a $hit about you our I.

jscusmc69, you have WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too much time on your hands;I couldn't even make it through your first paragraph of that drivel.

I didn't make it through the first paragraph, then slid over to 'no value'.. bye bye comment.

jscusmc69... you're the moron. Talk about diarrhea of the mouth with absolutely no point or logic. Eat a couple DING DONGS, I'm guessing they're your namesake.

@DaveK "If I decide to invest in a company, I want a return, it is the reason I take my hard earned money and invest it instead of putting it in my safe. I suppose you invest your money with the intent of losing it when a company starts to go belly up? Anyone here with a 401k, an interest bearing savings account, an IRA, or even a CD at your local bank are INVESTORS. You are SHAREHOLDERS in SOME company SOMEWHERE. Do you think the bank or management company just sits on your money and then pays you after a few years?? Almost EVERYONE here is a shareholder in some publicly traded company, and hence benefits when "wall street" does well. When you demonize the "1%", you are demonizing yourself, because if you work, have money saved, have money invested, or even collect welfare from the government, at the source of the money you get is a CEO, a wall street investor, a dividend, a corporation, and/or a shareholder (ie the "1%")."

What happens if everyone took their extra money and put in a safe moron? With estate tax and how much inheritance one generation can pass to one other? Would that not cause inflation forcing our government to print out more money since there is a fixed finite amount of currency at each point in time with which we use to determine the "value" of something moron? Would that not cause you money to lose value moron? Damn are people f***ing stupid. Why do you morons chase after something that you will never f***ing catch?

I would try to explain it to you in greater detail, but it would take to much space/time. Just accept the fact that unless the population grows or we become more efficient that only a "failed" "broken" system needs our government to be forced to print out more and more money until the end of time. Why you morons bitch about the Federal Reserve printing money, but saving/investing while expecting exponential gains/returns DOES THE SAME F***ING THING MORONS. It forces the government to print out more money which devalues the money you already have. Stop being a moron chasing after your own tail like some stupid animal.

When wall street does well the people that own the most shares do the best moron. If one person has 10 million invested versus a person that has 10 thousand invested and they both get a 50% ROI WHO benefits more moron the rich person or the poor person? The RICH person, but you want people to think we have a chance so that wel will chase after our tails and be slaves to you our entire lives.

The source of my money does not have any controlling factor other then taxes to limit how much the a$$holes want to pay themselves is the problem. They use every excuse in the book to get out of having to pay taxes or their employees a fair wage. Why did the CEO's not take a pay cut with their employees and instead ask for a pay raise? Unless a person if forced to make a choice between paying the government taxes or paying their employees more they will keep any and all extra money for themselves almost every time. They get rewarded more for paying their employees less and less.

Unions much like insurance and some religions suck balls in my opinion. They started off as good ideas, but have turned into self serving entities that benefit a small percentage. Why we waste money on middle men I cannot understand. That is why medical insurance costs so damn much, INSURANCE COMPANIES. Look at how much motherf***ing money they are making. THAT IS THE PROBLEM MORONS. STOP PAYING MIDDLE MEN ON VITAL SERVICES THAT EVERY PERSON USES. Having to wait hours for someone to come turn a screw that any moron could do holding up work all to guarantee a union job is B.S. Requiring "employing separate drivers for two different kinds of Hostess products rather than trucking them together." is B.S. too. Get rid of all the leeches/middle men you can, Lean.

What ever happened to the days when Banks funded bankruptcy restructuring? Too busy selling mortgage back securities I guess. The vulture capitalists are destroying this country and padding their pockets in the process.

Before the hedge funds got involved, Hostess was just one more company suffering from the recession. They made some bad business decisions and a faltering economy didn't help. Another huge hitter was the price of sugar. That's the number 1 ingredient in most Hostess products. You can talk about these snacks not being healthy but I'd rather have real sugar than high fructose corn syrup and artificial sweeteners. The bottom line is they could have been saved without letting the vultures come in to pick their bones.

The Unions had already made consessions in previous bankruptcies. The hedge fund owners have already shorted the pension fund by more than a billion dollars. Maybe most people don't think of it this way, but the pension fund is part of the employee's compensation. And anybody that thinks making $18/hour is big money, just shows you how screwed up we have become.

The Hostess family of brands still holds the largest market share of bakery goods. That is a position that any company would love. Market share means a lot. In reality Hostess could have easily sold off one or maybe two of it's companies originally, and have wiped out their debt. Have you noticed that many are waiting in the wings to buy off some of the brands? There are over 2 dozen of them.

It would be interesting to dig into the books of these guys. I have seen the handiwork of the vulture capitalists before. One famous trick is to spin off the company owned real estate into another company owned by the same people. Then you charge the parent company outlandish rent. The parent company loses, but the real estate spin off wins big. Another good opportunity here too is the commodities like sugar and flower. Now if your hedge fund also controls big blocks of commodities and sells them to the parent company above market value, the parent company loses but the commodities owners win big. Could be similar things going on with all the transportation. Does Hostess own all the trucks or do they lease them from a leasing company owned by the same hedge, fund? Ever notice that Hostess uses "premium packaging". Wonder if they own that or buy it from someone? The parent company bleeds red ink, but the investors in the hedge fund make out like bandits. These are basic tactics that are frequently used. I just watched this happen exactly as I just described in a smaller business doing about $100 million a year in business. Union shop and grossly underfunded pension plan. Similar scenario. A couple years back a venture capital company bought them in bankruptcy for peanuts and then extracted out all the cash. They took out the real estate maybe worth maybe $50-75 million and in two years got all that back and they still own the real estate free and clear. The did the same thing with the fleet of vehicles. The real assets of the original company don't belong to it any more, but the hedge fund owners still own it.

These are the kind of maneuverings that a Bank funded process wouldn't allow, but it are some basic tricks hedge fund owners use all the time. I would bet that this has happened at Hostess to one degree or another. The venture capital owners look like they are losing out with a company going bankrupt, but they are the ones who bankrupted them at a profit and when they sell off the brand names they will do just fine on top of what they already sucked out. The owners win and the employees and consumer public loses. The techniques of the venture capitalists are nothing really new. The Mafia has done this for years in the neighborhoods and areas they controlled. Only difference was that the Mafia did a lot of illegal things too but there is plenty of money to be made with these financial games without selling drugs or prostitution and they can do it all legally.

Yes lets dig into the books. But not just for the company, lets include the union. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander

I for one scoff at the idea that this union has made substantive concessions in the past when one of the things i read in the article is that the union requires two different union drivers (and trucks by the way) for two different products when one truck/one driver would work fine.

That reeks of union protectionism in the face of a business trying to be productive. And this isn't a defense of management who i'm sure has their faults in this matter also. I just get sick of you union apologists preaching on your soapbox about how righteous you are.

Nothing could be further from the truth in most cases.

jscusmc69...when will you be leaving this country? I am assuming that since you hate it here so much, you'll be going away.

My mom worked for CAT in Peoria before it went downhill. Yes, it's still operating, but the benefits she had pretty much suck now. And she STILL defends the UAW, saying how they were so good, blah blah blah...but I know people that the union treated like @!$%# when they were more concerned with whether or not their family would eat as oppposed to going on a months-long strike. I remember how they intimidated people, including causing a little girl to hurt herself after she ran over nail jacks someone threw onto her driveway., and running a man off the road because he dared to work to pay for medicine for his sick wife. No, no proof, but they knew where it came from, because @!$%# like that happend all the time.

I remember how many of the strikers would use their time on "duty" to hang out and party, to get drunk and screw around. I also remember how the President of the UAW was going around making speeches while raking in thousands of dollars in wages for himself, NOT the union.

If unions actually help someone to get justice when it comes to something done on the job, then great. But most of them are only in it to make more money, and NOT for the ones who pay their dues.

Your FAMILY is more important than ANYTHING. If you think you owe the union your allegience before your family, you're a fool.

Yet another reason to tax the wealthy - The so called "job creators" gave themselves 300% raises but claim they can't afford to pay their employees healthcare and want to decrease their wages.

FDR solved the depression by charging the million dollar club a 60% tax rate...and guess what...they were still millionaires.

Tax these loonies!

Vote for Universal Healthcare - this will solve so many problems for businesses that claim they can't afford it for their workers

LMAO----ALL you MORONS who COLLAPSE the COMMENTS sure are STUPID---WHEN you COLLAPSE a COMMENT YOU are AFRAID of the TRUTH that is IN THAT COMMENT---so GO AHEAD---AS your MORON in OUR WHITE HOUSE --continues to FVCK UP our country VIA his CLONES ---called UNIONS !!

THERE was a time when the UNIONS were NEEDED but that time is LONG GONE except to assist SOMEONE like the INCOMPENTEN LIAR BUY votes and OFFICES!

AS SUCH the UNIONS are NOTHING but CORRUPT EXTENSIONS of the CORRUPTION that comes from CHICAGO---OH and BTFW--AT one TIME I WAS a UNION MEMBER---705/710 IBT ..

WELL lets see---OBAMM is ULTRA PRO UNION--and the UNIONS all benifited by his crap over the last 4 years--IN a sense the UNIONS HELPED to BUY the OBAMM our WHITE HOUSE not once BUT twice --and AS SUCH the UNIONS think they can DICK-TATE to ANY and ALL HOW they will do business--NO MATTER WHAT!

YUP--OBAMAVCRAPCARE--aka-HEALTHCARE and the OBAMANATION UNIONS have cost 18+K PEOPLE their jobs---and this is just the tip on the OBAMABERG!!

HEY ALL YOU KOOL-AID DRINKING MORONS, ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. THIS IS JUST THE INITIAL TIP OF THE ICE BERG. HUSSIEN OBAMAS POLICYS ARE THE BIGGEST ECONOMIC KILLER IN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY & THE PAST 4 YRS PROVE THAT FACT. I HOPE YOU ALL CRY TO YOUR LEADER AS YOU FOLLOW HIM OFF THE CLIFF. HE WONT CARE DESTROYING THE CAPITOLIST SYSTEM IS HIS AGENDA, I UNLIKE MOST OF YOU BLIND FOLLOWERS READ HUSSIEN OBAMAS BOOK & I SUGGEST YOU DO TO EVEN THOUGH ITS TO LATE.

OBAMANATION said we would NOT like his "CHANGE"---and GUESS WHAT the MORON has NOW via his UNOIN CRAP put over 18,000 MORE REAL AMERICANS on the steret---and GUESS WHAT ELSE--if the BIMBOS in MEX do BUY HOSTESS--it will be TO PUT MORE ILLEGALS to WORK here and in MEX!!

The United States of America passed away late Tuesday night with an almost silent whimper. She was 236 years old. The grand old lady died of neglect, stupidity, arrogance and pure abuse at the hands of both her leaders and its ignorant populace.

She will be survived by the Socialist Democratic Republic of Obamerica or SDRO.

Also killed in this same massive, catastrophic, progressive wreck were personal freedoms, American values, exceptionalism, the Constitution, economic growth, conservatism, fiscal sanity, American unity, free markets, life's sanctity, marriage between man and woman, Republicanism, free will, self-reliance and many more, so mutilated, as to be unrecognizable any longer.

May she rest in peace and God bless her!

July 4, 1776 - November 6, 2012

NOW as the LIAR/MORON said---"revenge "---WELL there MR.MORON-----YOU and YOUR ASSORTED PROGRESSIVE,DEMORAT,ILLEGAL SUPPORTERS just MIGHT get---THE REVENGE of the REAL AMERICAN PEOPLE---sooner than you think!

A free people do not sit still while their country is destroyed by an INCOMPETENT FOOL--.
Patriotic Americans have had enough and are realizing that the system is rigged, the media is MIA, our Representatives are derelict of duty, half of the nation is complicit, and revolution in some form may be inevitable.
There are some things worse than dying like living in servitude to despots...and their is NO DOUBT that KING OBAMA and his MO represent the worst--progressive ignorant demo-rats!

Capitulation is NOT in our vocabulary. UNITED we stand. LIVE FREE OR DIE

I'll not bash Obama after he stops blaming Bush. :)

Jon,

The Union books are public record. Takes some effort to dig into them, but they legally can't hide anything regarding finances or contracts. Any member has the ability to get anything they want with very few exceptions and if you know how to research it, you can get everything too. Unions in fact are highly regulated and this stems from improprieties years ago.

Publicly traded companies have to report most everything too, even though the massive amounts of information makes finding what you are looking for pretty complicated. But their financials are regulated too, to protect the shareholders. But private companies are another story altogether. Much like your personal financial records aren't public record either. You may make some of it available to credit agencies and such, but in fact they are private. When the bankruptcy is complete, a lot of this will come out.

I think some of the rumors about the Hostess contracts are exaggerations or long outdated information. For one thing, the Teamsters who drive the trucks had already agreed to Hostess' demands earlier this year around February. They just barely agreed and had already taken the cuts that Hostess was demanding in this last bankruptcy event. The bakers Union has a different contract. The Teamsters are generally a much larger, more powerful Union although their membership with Hostess was smaller. However, the Teamsters employees had a more "lucrative" contract than the bakers. Which is why Hostess went after them first, also figuring a strike by them would be more devastating. I think you might find that the bakers may likely have accepted similar terms to the Teamsters, but Hostess figured they could cut them deeper.

You have to realize that we're talking about a lot of people saying that enough is enough. This is not just about a CEO and a few top executives against a handful of top Union negotiators. This is about the majority of the workers saying no. And the company saying no.

The problem with this kind of mediation is that it was merely making the two parties sit down one more time with someone in the middle. A one day attempt at facilitative mediation simply isn't going to work. It should be pretty clear that Hostess has already decided that liquidation was what they wanted. They were not about to budge one inch. There was going to be no negotiation, just one last chance for the Union to roll over before the judge OK'd liquidation.

A good mediation requires the mediator the time to get familiar with the demands of both parties and look for opportunities. That wasn't going to happen on short notice. Another choice might have been to suspend the strike pending an arbitration where the appointed arbitrator could determine the middle ground and order it. Generally though, both parties would need to agree to that first. Sometimes the bankruptcy court acts as the arbitrator. The reason this is sometimes done is to protect the creditors so as to allow them to recover more of their losses. The bankruptcy judge has done a lousy job in handling this, basically going through the motions at the company's request. His ordering the one day mediation was a CYA move.

I believe that as things progressed, the interest shown by others in buying up the companies suggested a better payout for the owners and the creditors. I'd be willing to bet that at least some of the creditors are other companies owned by the same venture capital groups. That is how these guys do it. Those companies get some cash and then declare bankruptcy themselves.

All the interest by companies in the business suggests that they see the real value to picking up the brands. You can be sure that the insiders understand the business errors of their competitors, particularly one who holds the largest share of the market that Hostess does. But also interesting is that another venture capital company, Sun Capital has stated an interest in buy the entire company. Seems suspicious to say the least. Could be the very same hedge funds backing them with the thought of starting back up without a Union. This is a clever way for the real owner investors to crush the Union.

The irony is that many of the very same workers will end up back in the facilities working for new owners. The PBGC will get stuck picking up the pension plan which will probably be worth more now than it would a couple years from now if Hostess was allowed to keep underfunding it for another year or two. Some of what I have read suggests the majority of the workers have quite a bit of work service, so their vesting in the pension is significant.

You have to realize that this pension plan is in reality a part of their compensation. By accepting the reduced terms, what fundamentally happens is the company raids the pension plan at least indirectly. Reduced terms means that funding requirements would be reduced so across a couple years, the value of the fund is far less. If you have worked for the company for twenty years, the amount of money you'd be giving up is far greater than a couple dollars an hour in wage rates.

This whole thing about pensions and benefits is something most non-union workers don't understand but Hostess did. They were already about a billion dollars underfunded. The wage cuts they were looking for were worth somewhere around $50 million or somewhere around $3000 per employee annually, but the pension cuts were worth far more. A significant amount of the last wage cut they took was eaten up by increases in executive pay by as much as 300%. At some point when you are in a relationship with a party that is constantly stealing from you, you may decide that parting ways and stopping the theft is the best choice. In reality, that is what the Union employees have done.

The union bashers on this vine sound like the same mean spirited jerks that just got their $&*s handed to them in the election. The union is NOT the problem it's piss poor management and antiquated marketing and distribution.

The board of directors of Hostess are bloated corporate fat cats blaming union empoyees for their own incompetence and greed. I wish people would check out facts before blaming the people that actually work for a living.

I guess that leaves the "double-tap" as humanity's only savior...

Wait a second... hold that thought.

There will be at least one lone liberal survivor (or the SPLC will still exist), advocating that this is cruel and unusual punishment/death for the undead.

Sounds ridiculous I know, but...

The board of directors of Hostess are bloated corporate fat cats blaming union empoyees for their own incompetence and greed.

Their reaction really does smack of taking their ball and going home.

Pragmatic is right. Those bloated corporate fat cats don't need to save the company and thier jobs. They have established a lifestyle for themselves that will not change with the company closing the doors. Union workers bit the hand that feeds them.

BiPolar, we're screwed anyway.

Why are the Unions killing Twinkie ?? It's gonna be all Little Debbie's from now on.

BigAl Las Vegas, so how many successful companies have you managed? While I see you here all the time spewing your pro-union socialist liberal crap, I'm guessing the answer is none! You're not the Scoutmaster from South Park are you?

@ OLD DOG I was wondering the same thing. Bet hes never ran a company leyt alone owned one.

President and OldDog, are you saying it's impossible to successfully run a company and pay your workers a decent living wage with benefits? If you're defending Hostess, whose business model seems to be file for bankruptcy a few times and shuffle/redistribute the funds to the top, then asking the bottom to take cuts and do it without complaining, I'm really curious as to how many businesses YOU'VE successfully run.

Thank you Precededbynone.. it wasn't just the union employees who lost out. I also know of an independent operator whose route was taken away along with about 40 other i/o's back in August or so. These drivers had purchased these routes...and they were just taken away. Losing $60,000 or more for each of those routes. How does that work? How does Hostess get away with that. Come on people... stop the greed!

You people see to forget, the union workers DON'T own the company therefore they have no right to what the company does with its money, how much it pays officers, etc. If you want to control the money, go open your own business. Lots of people have, started from nothing, scratch, hard work, long hours, sometimes no paychecks, sleepless nights, bloods, sweat and tears.

President George Washington, when arming the people of the United States of America, said:

“A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”

We would do well to heed George Washington’s warning, since over 56 million people in the 20^th century have been exterminated by their own governments under the guise of gun control. READ THIS SENTENCE ONE MORE TIME AND THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS

Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth.”- George Washington

While some of the American people are under the delusion that Barack Hussein Obama and his 1.7 percent of “useful idiots,” along with his fraternizers in the deceptive state-run media somehow won his re-election campaign, I thought it was important to note the FIRST thing Obama and his administration did was turn its attention to the United Nations Gun Treaty talks.
Hmmm, I wonder… If he really had the support of the American people, why is he so busy trying to disarm those who supposedly love him so much? (Forget about the 42 states that are suggesting succession.)

The next great Depression.. lets go on strike.. yeah, yeah, that it...... Ooooh !

Big Al in Las Vegas, uh, yeah, it is the union's fault. If the Teamsters are siding with management, I'd say it's a sure thing that the union is at fault. Do you really believe that the Teamsters would side with management if they thought management was wrong? Sure management has made mistakes, but if Hostess shuts down, it's the bakers union fault that over 18,000 people will be jobless.

Hmmm... To heck with the Twinkies, Ding Dongs and HoHos - save the bags of powder sugar coated Donettes... !!

Do you know what Hostess' Product line includes? Didn't think so. Typical liberal, spout off without knowing the facts.

Well here it is:

Sweet Snacks
Twinkies
CupCakes
Ding Dongs
Ho Hos
Sno Balls
Donettes
Devil Dogs – Drake’s
Funny Bones – Drake’s
Ring Dings – Drake’s
CoffeeCakes – Drake’s
Blueberry Muffins – Drake’s
Yodels – Drake’s

Breads
Wonder
Nature’s Pride
Merita
Home Pride
Beefsteak
Butternut
Millbrook
Eddy’s
J.J. Nissen
Sweetheart
Cotton’s Holsum
Sunbeam
Bread du Jour

Do you see that, WONDER BREAD, IRON KIDS BREAD,

And My favorite, HOME PRIDE 100% Whole Grain Bread. I don't know about you, but the last time I checked breads made from cereal grains were part of a healthy diet, (the fiber and all that).

{My apologies if I misinterpreted your comment. But I read it that, you were alluding to the fact that you thought Hostess only made junk food, i.e. the Snack Cakes}

So maybe you should pull your head out before you go espousing your communist ideology. Let the Union run the company?..?

Keep in mind, only 5,600 of the workers at Hostess belong to the Bakers Union. 31% of the labor force killed the rest. With a greediness like that, who needs Management? Yep, $0 per is better than letting those greedy bastard CEO's get away with stealing my pension, boy we sure showed them.

FarmBoy -

If you're going to be looking for an alternate, try Oroweat. I don't think they're going out of business anytime soon.

Yo Farmboy, hate to burst your Republican inflated bubble! But, this is all about the GREEDY owner(as usual) outsourcing the jobs to Mexico!! The owners will pillage their own company, make a bundle, then set up shop in Mexico for 1/2 the price. GREED, GREED, GREED!!!

And of course it's the Unions fault, what a crock of s**t!!!

Yes, alone, you are spot on! Did you know their CEO tripled his salary but blamed his employees wanting a working wage for the bankruptcy? I also heard that the same company filed for bankruptcy 8 years ago--and then just reshuffled and remade itself. What do you bet that happens again (if they're allowed)...?

@ alone in Fla #4.3

Yo Farmboy, hate to burst your Republican inflated bubble! But, this is all about the GREEDY owner(as usual) outsourcing the jobs to Mexico!! The owners will pillage their own company, make a bundle, then set up shop in Mexico for 1/2 the price. GREED, GREED, GREED!!!

And of course it's the Unions fault, what a crock of s**t!!!

Not exactly sure how that ones going to workout.

But hey, get back with my in couple years, and we'll see.

But my guess is, "The Owners", i.e. ShareHolders, aren't coming out of this with a lot of money, some may even lose money. And my guess is you have no idea what I am talking about. We're all a bunch of rich white men, and we all have stacks of money just laying around. Companies don't really go broke, the "Owner" just makes it up, so they can shift gears and gouge people harder, right? What an idiot.

Maybe sometime you should try running your own business. You deal with Gov't, unfaithful employees, fickle consumers, LAWYERS, and see how long you last.

We eat "Natures Own". It has like 12 different grains in it and has a nice sturdy consistency to make a good veg filled with some meat sandwich.

As for the bankruptcy and closure, this will be the first of many. It makes sense to sell their name and formulas. Contesting retention bonuses is stupid. Wasn't this retention bonus plan doable for the banks Obama bailed out to the tune of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ US dollars for insider trader stock purchase.

I suppose Eric Holder will be all over Hostess to make sure that the Union Labor and other carrion bottom feeders take what the can and leave nothing for the investors and creditors.

So here is to Bimbo and the new Twinkies factory down south. Labor asked for too much and got what they deserved. Would be interesting to know how much pac support sent to Obama...if you voted for him and find yourself out of work too bad. There are many voices now saying I told you so.

Yes, it was the unions. It wasn't the CEO tripling his pay to 2.5 million dollars or anything. And, as you can see from the link below, it HAD to have been the greedy workers there who tanked the company. Yes, it's always the workers fault and not the fact that the executives pay themselves approximately $325 for every $1 they pay their lowest paid employee. Yeah, it's the working man, the blue collar guy that's tanking Papa Johns, Hostess, etc. Not the guys who are paying themselves ludicrous amounts of money as the ship goes down. I love people who villify the guy who's struggling to pull down $50,000 while doing the real work while they kneel before those who pay themselves millions while the ship sinks.

Yeah it's always the employees fault that companies fail. Well not exactly. When they have piss poor management like some of them do it's no wonder they go bankrupt. People want to blame the union for GM and Chrysler's problems but forget that Ford also has the same union and gives their workers a better contract but never had the problems their competitors did because their CEO got his act together well before the economic collapse of 2008. Germany auto makers have unions and do very well. It's what you have to sell and how you manage the company that makes or breaks your company.

The biggest problem is that the CEOs want to make the most money for themselves/stockholders and don't give a damn if the workers fall dead on the job or if the company goes bankrupt. Self centered greed. What's in it for me attitude.

Txmon32 -

So here is to Bimbo and the new Twinkies factory down south.

DumbFarmboy

Do you know what Hostess' Product line includes? Didn't think so. Typical liberal, spout off without knowing the facts.

Well somehow you missed out that Grupo Bimbo (the world's largest baker) is already here in the US, and I doubt that the following brands are made in Mexico...

Arnold, Boboli (pizza crusts), Entenmann's (pastries), Mrs. Baird's (in TX), Orowheat, Sara Lee, Stroehmann's, and Thomas (English muffins) among others.

Not to mention that Hostess, headquartered in Irving, TX, is on its second Chapter 11 in 8 years (previously known as Intercontinental Bakeries).

@qudrcps #4.9

Txmon32 -

So here is to Bimbo and the new Twinkies factory down south.

DumbFarmboy

Do you know what Hostess' Product line includes? Didn't think so. Typical liberal, spout off without knowing the facts.

Well somehow you missed out that Grupo Bimbo (the world's largest baker) is already here in the US, and I doubt that the following brands are made in Mexico...

Arnold, Boboli (pizza crusts), Entenmann's (pastries), Mrs. Baird's (in TX), Orowheat, Sara Lee, Stroehmann's, and Thomas (English muffins) among others.

Not to mention that Hostess, headquartered in Irving, TX, is on its second Chapter 11 in 8 years (previously known as Intercontinental Bakeries).

Just exactly what about MY post are you refuting? I was pointing out to Jeffery that Hostess made more than just junk food, i.e. "Snack Cakes" in his post about "coming up with NEW products"

I made no mention of Grupo Bimbo or largest bakeries. And even if the bakeries are here in the US, just like car makers, the profits are shipped out of the country. Hence I'll never own a Toyota etc. Very much like Walmart, they employ locals but all the profit is shipped to Bentonville...

I made no mention of other Brand names.

or of Previous business practices, but Yes I was fully aware of Hostess' history. A friend of mine works at the Emporia, Ks bakery. (and is just a little bit PO'd with his FORMER co-workers)

Also, if you notice I have made several references to mismanagement @ Management. They caused the problem, however, it was and is the UNION'S FAULT the company closed.

(I once tried to explain to a dope smokin hippy liberal, the difference between Fault and Cause. Let's take two cars going down the highway and one is tailgating. Now, let's say the first car slams on the brakes to avoid hitting a cute bunny and the other car collides with the first. What caused the collision? And who's fault is it? One should remember that had the first car done nothing to change its trajectory, the second never would have hit it.

So, it was the first car that "caused" the wreck, but it was the second car's Fault, for following too close. So it is the Union's Fault, the company is closing, even though they are not the cause of the company's financial problems.

Not sure if this is a factor or not with Hostess, but noted some remarks concerning businesses rolling out of the US to conduct business and manufacturing and have this to say as an Independent voter:

If you want a REAL American horror story with the climax yet to come, do some research on US companies and investments that have moved out of the US since 2009, due mostly to new-found EPA regulations that cannot be met. Couple that with increased corporate rate health insurance costs (cheaper to pay the fines) and what incentive(s) are you really left with to stay in the US?

Unions who think their "members" deserve $50K+ per yer manufacturing jobs and are afraid for those "members" to lose a whopping 8% in pay, which is something like $3K a year. Wow! Now, try losing 100% pay with a company that no longer exists... I'll take the pay cut to keep my job as unemployment is a beast that is growing in strength and is only going to get more out of control in the next 3+ years with the re-elected spend-happy administration.

The problem with unions is that they do not exist on donations or on the backs of volunteers... Unions exist and get $$$ from hard-working employees in order to get what? Guarantees of fair and equal treatment (and pay) in the work center? I am pretty sure that US state and US federal labor laws have that covered Mr Hoffa. The other problem is union workers are accustomed to much better than minimum wage pay, in some cases three to five times more in fact for jobs that do require skills (am not doubting that), but do not require a four-year university degree to figure out.

Unionized made products also carry the burden-price-tag of unionized dictated salaries, hence why US Union-made products will never, ever be able to compete dollar for dollar with imported items that are manufactured with non-labor work-forces. There has never been a conclusive study that shows Union made is superior to non-Union made... Studies do show however, a higher level of pay... Imagine that.

Unions had their time and place for good causes, until... They married organized crime, slept with politicians and were made redundant by US Labor Laws.

Farmboy...

I hear you loud and clear my friend. Americans do deserve good wages, job security and benefits but with increased GOV regulations and unions holding company's to nearly impossible and unreasonable standards, it makes these things almost impossible tasks to do.

It wasn't the union workers fault-- it's the greedy CEO's that caused the problems. Hostess has had 6 different CEO's since 2002. They filed for bankruptcy no less than 3 times in those 12 years. At one point, the CEO du jour decided to give himself a 300% raise in pay and cut worker's pay by 3%, their health benefits by 5% and their retirement benefits by 3%.

Now the company is asking for permission to pay $1.75 million in retention bonuses to 19 different managers as an incentive for sticking around during the liquidation process.

I realize that to a Republican businessman, that's a fair deal, but to normal people, that's outrageous. That money could easily be used to pay the workers a fair wage, reinstate their previous medical and retirement benefits.

If there weren't greedy businessmen, there probably wouldn't be a need for unions.

@ Charlie

It wasn't the union workers fault-- it's the greedy CEO's that caused the problems. Hostess has had 6 different CEO's since 2002. They filed for bankruptcy no less than 3 times in those 12 years. At one point, the CEO du jour decided to give himself a 300% raise in pay and cut worker's pay by 3%, their health benefits by 5% and their retirement benefits by 3%.

You should read post 4.10

But I do agree, something needs to be done with the CEO syndrome. But What?

It used to be the board of Directors kept a handle on things. Companies used to pay dividends on stocks. Did the tax codes do away with that? Making it better to keep the money in house instead of paying it to the stockholder?

I for one would be all in favor of taking the Anti-Trust laws to town on these conglomerates and make it easier for small family owned businesses to succeed. And get us back to age when the middle class was made up of business owners, not business workers.

One of the things that can be done is to eliminate the protectionist tariff on sugar. Certain products require real sugar cane sugar to produce. While the corn industry would like everyone to believe that the sweetener produced from corn is chemically the same (it may be) there are some extremely important differences in the two.

For a company which uses tons of sugar (literally) the direct and indirect subsidies given to corn at the expense of cane sugar make a huge difference.

It's undeniable! The union tools just don't get it! Yeah, blame the management for insisting on a profit.... companies don't need profits because if they lose money and go bankrupt the government will bail them out, right? Okay,union fools, where will your salaries come from if the company is losing money? Don't like the current situation, then go ahead and walk... to the nearest unemployment line... and oh, by the way, good luck finding that new job... there are plenty around.

Does it really matter if there's been mismanagement at the top if the ones who're going to suffer for it aren't the management but the employees? Making so many demands is still cutting off your nose to spite your face as the old aphorism goes.

There are reasons this company isn't profitable. It sounds like there's plenty of blame to spread around between bad management, unreasonable unions, sugar tariffs, heavy regulation, a bad economy in general, and a heavy emphasis (even if it's hardly exclusive) in treats that people target as unhealthy. This is a consumer food, a notoriously low-margin market. And it's not just Hostess. A lot of companies have already come to the conclusion or are coming to the conclusion that U.S. workers are simply too expensive for their companies to be profitable.

Jeffrey Sheppard, is English your second language?

dirp, today is the first time I've ever agreed with any of your comments, but you sure got this one right! Keep up the rational thinking!

Dumb Farm Boy

"Maybe sometime you should try running your own business. You deal with Gov't, unfaithful employees, fickle consumers, LAWYERS, and see how long you last".

By God you said a mouthful in those two sentences. Just dealing with the government alone was enough to force me over the edge and out. I shut the doors and told them to stick it ALL up their a$$, including the tax owed for the last 3 quarters and then begged the SOB's to send me to prison. That was 2 yrs ago and my third business. I'll NEVER start up another business underneath these GD bunch of communist MF's, ever again. I don't see how by now that there is a single business left operating under this phucked up totalitarian government, makes no diff which party is in control. It won't be much longer before there isn't.

> Charle7834 If there weren't greedy businessmen, there probably wouldn't be a need for unions.

Charle, if there weren't greedy businessmen, their wouldn't be businesses, or employees. I'm not saying that every businessperson needs to be ruthless or evil - but the whole 'entrepreneur' mentality is to recognize an opportunity for a product or service, and then to deliver that product or service to the customer, AND to make a profit in the process. Profit is not necessarily evil, it is what drives the need for businesses, and therefor profit is what drives the need for employees.

Hey, DumbFarmBoy, before you call someone else an idiot, spot the mistakes in these two sentences of your post:

"Not exactly sure how that ones going to workout.

But hey, get back with my in couple years, and we'll see."

Hint: there are several mistakes.

Well, my apologies. It has, in fact, been over 30 years since I last had an English Comp class. And some times I get a bit rushed and don't have time to proof read before I post a comment.

But yes, I should have placed an apostrophe @ one's

And I should have typed 'me' instead of 'my'.

But what the heck, let's get nit picky shall we. I am sure if you go through all of my posts you will find typos, misspellings and grammatical errors o'plenty.

How about you refute the arguments instead?

Not arguing with you farm boy...

If the damn unions would get our of everyone's way, during this horrible economy, (because big boy won't do anything), these companies would not go under. These grand retirement packages are killing companies, cities, and just about everything else you can imagine...This proves more each day just how the Unions have got to go.

And I appreciate that Jean...

What gets me, is that I do understand the need for unions in certain instances. But the minute you mention the union is the problem, the libs, jump up and say we want to go back to the "Good ol' Days" of slavery.

However, we now have laws in place that protect workers. And what we are left with is an organization that is more interested in their own power than that of the employee. The teachers union is a prime example.

BTW, "Watching" you should check out my post @ 9.6.

You mean the creme filling made with lard and powered sugar?

If only! They were never the same after they changed the recipie and got rid of the trans-fats.

...also, lard is natural and is better for you than (for example) margarine.

Margarine is nasty stuff-whipped oil. We use only pure butter in my house.

You mean the creme filling made with lard and powered sugar?

Yeah, that's them!!!!!! I agree, Mark, the recipes should not have changed. Ask Coca-Cola. And for the record I have not bought a box of Hostess in quite a while but that was my choice. I do not wish others to go without if that is what they want. But I have to admit that I did have a Hostess addiction at one time. And since all the shelves are empty and now you can't get them I have been craving Snowballs big time. WAH!

Little know fact...margarine is one of the few things that flys won't eat.

True, they will eat dog sht but they won't eat margarine.

Smart flys.

Dear deweydan. Don't blame this on the unions. You think union people are all getting rich, free healthcare, etc...Not true. Even in union occupations, many are still paying for their own heath care and making just above minimum wage. Get off of the anti-union crap. How about anti-Wall Street. You're what's wrong with this country. You think average people should work for nothing while execs make millions.

Its absolutely the unions fault! The unions were formed to keep the bosses from making millions and to protect the worker. It seems now thier greed has forced a business to declare bankruptcy and that same greed has forced thousands more out of work. Where are your morals? Since when do union members get paid just above minimum wage? Where are your facts? Stay in colorado and smoke your weed.

John,

Everybody, from the top executives to the line workers (i.e. all union and all-non-union workers) took an 8% pay cut EXCEPT the baker's union. Because one union wouldn't go along, the entire company went down. Not every union is evil and not all are necessary, but this one destroyed an 18,000 person company.

They were told this would be the result, and they tried to play chicken with a business on the verge of liquidation, and now you know "the rest of the story."

Yup -- good ol Unions... Hey, where is Obama's bailout for these folks? Oh, thats right the election is OVER.

It is not a particular union, it is the entire union concept that is the problem. Toady there are very few industries that need the unions. Certainly not in the public sector. The concept of unions is one of the most destructive entities this country faces. They are not fighting for there members, but to keep themselves in play.

So when reducing labor costs, how much is enough? Your logic is that working for .50 cents an hour is better than nothing at all? You just don't get that this is the new American way, fat cats at the top give themselves raises while hammering the workers lower and lower in order to compete with 3rd world labor rates while they make themselves wealthy off the backs of their fellow countrymen/women! Yeah its all the unions fault, how dare they try and keep wages livable and working conditions safe... whatever comrade!

CT, you're exactly right. The American labor movement is a big part of the economic woes of this country. Unions were desparately needed in the early 20th century with the pratices of factory owners of underpaying workers, extremely unsafe working conditions and other autrocities. Today, they have become corrupt organizations, still with organized crime ties, whose only winners are the union bosses who will keep their big salaries while you ignorant union workers close down an America icon and join the welfare lines. Just what we need , more people that I have to support. Looks like Romnet's 47% is going to top 50% soon. I am constantly amazed at the ignorance of the American people.

Dewey: "All you strikers really showed Hostess who was boss. 18,000 unemployed."

And what about the CEO who tripled his salary? And the "$1.75 million in retention bonuses to 19 different managers" now? They couldn't use that $ to pay many more of their on-the-line low wage employees?

Besides, did you know they filed for bankruptcy 8 years ago--and just reformed? What do you bet they do so again?

GovHater

So when reducing labor costs, how much is enough? Your logic is that working for .50 cents an hour is better than nothing at all?

Except for a few specific locations, every company in the US has to pay a minimum of $7.25/hour...possibly more if the state has a higher minimum wage. And, yes - I think $7.25 is better than .50 cents an hour.

TO: CT-4008986 who wrote:

"It is not a particular union, it is the entire union concept that is the problem. Today there are very few industries that need the unions. Certainly not in the public sector. The concept of unions is one of the most destructive entities this country faces..."

I sure would like to know how and why you came up with those ideas instead of just making a blanket statement.

It's not the "industries" that need unions, it's the employees who, by themselves, cannot force large companies to pay a fair wage and cannot force these large companies to offer health benefits, etc.

Unions are only there to insure American Workers are treated fairly by large industries who would use their power to force wages down, deminish "fringe" benefits, etc.

I don't see that as being a "bad thing" as much as it sounds "fair" to American Employees.

Companies have been making record profits for the past 4 years and haven't let any of those profits "trickle down" to company employees, which doesn't seem fair.

The minimum wage is not where it should be if adjusted for inflation. In 1960 the minimum wage was $1.25. In that period of time inflation has nearly everything basically 10 times more so the minimum wage should really be $12.50 if it had been adjusted for inflation. Check prices of the early 60s and compare them to the price today and you'll see that they are about 10 times more yet the minimum wage has been oppressed by Republican resistance. Just saying.....$7.25 an hour is not a living wage when you have to spend a half hour of wages for a load of bread.

I might add that unions would not have been necessary or even become in existence if the companies would have treated employees like humans instead of objects by paying them a decent wage. Henry Ford realized that his employees should be able to afford what they make. If companies were like that today unions would die out because there would be no need for them but as long as companies treat employees as animals there will always be a need for unions.

You know what. When you have worked on both sides of the fence then you can give a honest opinion on this matter. I have worked union jobs, Non union jobs and owned my own business for 30 years. The real things I saw with my own eyes are these things. I saw the Unions protect the lazy people that came to work drunk if they came at all. I seen management drunk off there asses at work. I seen Management put workers at risk for no reason other then it slowed down production. I saw management screw over good workers that came to work everyday on time and tried to do a good days work for them, while letting others take advantage all the time. It Seemed to me Management was doing everything backwards. When I owned my own company, My rule was I would never ask anyone to do something I wouldn't do, Safety wise. I kept the equipment properly. And If the people working for me would have come and said we are going Union I would have closed the doors right there and then. But I was a very small business. But these days and for many years now, The Mitt Romney's of the world have come along. These CEO's think they need to make all the money, they take huge bonuses for them self's while the company is loosing money. They run a company into the ground while getting rich and lay the blame on the workers. The workers didn't make bad choices, the Greedy CEO did. Like Hostes wanting to give the Management team $1.5 m in bonuses to stay on. Why is it that they don't tell these managers that there are 15 other people out there that would take that job in a second for less money like that tell the workers? This has come home to roost on Hostes. Its coming home to roost on Walmart also and other big businesses. Do I think the Unions need to rethink what their part is now? Yes and they have. Just look at the UAW, they worked with GM for the good of the Company and it was a win win for them all, and for us all. The new Unions need to become more of a co owner. When the company is doing well the workers do well too. But as long as the good old boy Managers are all worried about taking care of them self's first over the company's well being then this is the way of many more company's. You don't have to look very hard to find where GEO's have ruined company's. Or where company's have had to buy CEO's off to leave. Hell in the working world when someone don't do there job, you fire them. Hell whats good for the goose is good for the Gander. Why is it when a CEO does a bad job, don't he get fired and not with Millions in Comp. ?????

ROI - Return on Investment. Everyone wants their investment to continuously return a higher profit, every quarter/year. A 22% return/year would seem like a healthy investment, right? I mean, after all, most people are happy that their 401K gets 5-10%/year, right? You don't understand the mindset of the ultra rich. The embarrassment of walking into a Bilderburger meeting sporting only a 22%/year profit, when so many others get 100-200% yearly returns. Oh, the ridicule!

Thank you Chuck!

Obama wants to keep the tax cuts in place, including the 15 percent dividend rate, for people making less than $200,000. Republicans want to keep the tax cuts for everyone, including the 15 percent dividend rate, but have not taken a hard line on the dividend rate publicly.

Dividend payments were taxed like everyday income, meaning taxed by increasing brackets, until 2003, when Congress passed sweeping tax cuts backed by President George W. Bush.

The 2003 cuts reduced the tax on most dividends to 15 percent.

If Obama and Congress can't make a deal, and perhaps even if they can, dividends will be taxed like everyday income again. And the top marginal income tax rate will climb back to 39.6 percent from 35 percent, where it has stood since 2003.

The country's top earners will be taxed an additional 3.8 percent on dividends to pay for the president's health care overhaul, meaning the wealthy will pay 43.4 percent on dividends - almost triple the tax they pay today.

For millions of Americans, a dividend tax increase won't matter. Stocks in most individual retirement accounts and 401(k)s will be unaffected until years from now, when the account holders cash them in.

Fidelity Investments has estimated two years ago that a third of U.S. stocks are held in tax-deferred accounts IRAs and 401(k)s. Another 13 percent are held by foreigners, who don't pay U.S. dividend taxes.

It's tricky to make any historical comparisons because nothing like this has happened before. There has never been such a large increase on dividend taxes, partly because they have generally gone down.

The closest historical parallel is probably the early 1990s, says David McGonigle, a fund manager at Copeland Capital Management. The top income-tax rate rose from 28 percent to 31 percent in 1991, then climbed to 39.6 percent in 1993.

So did higher taxes prompt investors to ditch dividend stocks? Not at all. Between 1990 and 1993, dividend-paying stocks returned an average of 12 percent a year. The S&P 500 returned an average of 10.7 percent.

Let’s make all state right to work states and if Unions can
attract their dues without having laws forcing people to pay dues and if Unions
are such a great thing to pay money too and add value for the employee to belong too then I’m all for them. But I bet they wouldn’t survive because they aren’t for the employee and are just a political money making scheme anymore. I believe they had their day, and just like the buggy whip they are outdated and need to live on their merits and not force people into paying them.

Everybody, from the top executives to the line workers (i.e. all union and all-non-union workers) took an 8% pay cut EXCEPT the baker's union.

This happened only recently, after one of the 6 different CEO's in the past 12 years gave himself and managers a 300% pay raise. The company has been in trouble since 2002 with three different bankruptcy filings. The downfall has been financial mismanagement by corporate HQ--not union workers.

Roadkill: sshh, you are starting to sound like the Congressional Research Service, which also just debunked the "tax cuts equal jobs" mantra of the GOP.

Maxwell's Silver Hammer, your math skills are somewhat lacking. Take that $1.75 million, and divide it between 18,600 employees and see how far it goes!

Roadkill, so your answer is to f**k up everbody's retirement with outrageous taxes on dividends just so you can feel good about sticking it to "the rich" What a genius! I hope you spend your "golden years" in abject poverty, crying about "it's not fair."

people think $1.75 million is such a large amount of money. Folks, before you think that the 1.75 million should or would be better spent on the union salaries, that amount ($1.75 million) is about $92.00 for each of the 18,000 employees who may lose their jobs. So...whether the executives should or shouldn't get their bonuses, the amount is minimal and it definitely will not pay for the salary and benefit increase that the union was asking for.

Bottom line is, if the company agreed to the increases demanded by the unions, in 2 or 3 years (whenever the contract would have expired) the union would ask for even more. The increases being demanded by unions is simply unsustainable.

G3a1, it's not union increases that are unsustainable, it's the executive mentality: CEO salaries and bonuses increasing exponentially, while asking their workers to take pay cuts and forgo pensions and health care, and do it without complaining, that is unsustainable. Whatever you may think of unions, did it ever occur to you that the MASSIVE rift between rich and middle class (not to mention rich and poor), not just the specific numbers ($1.75 mil is OBVIOUSLY not going to stretch far between all the workers, believe it or not us slow & stupid middle class folk are capable of simple division) is the cause of the unrest? Do executives deserve more pay than the common laborer? Sure. While it's debatable, not too many people are arguing with you there. Do they deserve THOUSANDS OF TIMES more money? NO. Do unions sometimes make unreasonable demands? Yes. Is protesting a pay cut and demanding earned pensions & decent health care unreasonable, given that CEOs saw their pay and bonuses increase? NO. I don't know when "fair pay" became synonymous with socialism, but this is just ri-goddamn-diculous.

RON42 have you hugged your swastika today?

So question is? How do you cure the human condition of greed and wanting more and more? Bigger Government Control to reign in the greed? That will work for a short time, very short time. Because the ones rich with power will be overcome with the temptation of greed for more power and money. Should we have elected 4 yr term CEO's for the goverment controlled businesses? Okay, but then nothing gets done and peoples rights are taken away. Ask the Communist and Socialist countries whose offiials and beaurucrats daily violate human rights. Then in a short time the Constitution becomes a thing of the past and the people are brought into class distinctions from the cradle to the grave. Then the innovative spirit is crushed, and the American dream we work hard for to pass on to our children is extinguished with the constitution. I can go on and on, but I beleive you of those that are smart and not Socialist Muslim sympathizes, understand the direction I am going in.

The fact is, if you are unhappy by the companies greed? QUIT, get out of the rut and false hope that the creators and investors of the company are going to change their ways. Their intent is keeping their incomes their accustomed too going, especially in a declining ECONOMY. Yea! your accustomed also, but why are you asked to make more concessions than the managers and owners? Don't know. well then QUIT, get out of the rut and false hope they will change. I am sorry for repeating myself, but I am just describing the vicious circle that is the Ebbs & Flows of economics. The point is, chase the American Dream(get out of the rut), go onto something else. Or if you are comfortable in your situation, then teach and provide your children the oppurtunity to achieve the Amercican Dream. Dreams that creates, and innovates and profits from its achievements. If you dont like the company, save your money and invest it in an education, to move on to a better situation. Don't blow it at the bars or on useless trinkets of entertainment. At least until you have accomplished what you set out to do. That is the free market capitalism and the basis of our constitution. You are NOT relagated to be a slave to a declining company, you can quit and move on, its your American freedom and right. The Unions have a use, but sometimes the leaders abuse that use, and putting faith in the union leaders can be tricky(to many variables to explain).

Let the Constitution and the American Deam thrive!, don't just complain and elect officials that will establish bigger goverment and slowly but surely dissolve our freedoms and rights. If you don't like it "QUIT", and move on to something better, you are Free to do that. Let someone else work that crappy job for awhile...

Navy, sorry but thats just stupid. Media reports half of one side of the story and without thinking you wish ill will towards those trying to support their families. How about the holding company that been raping the companies profits for 10 years. What about all the concessions the workers have made since the recession. What about all the horrible management from the non union execs? For god sakes hostess wanted to end the 8 hour work day. Why didn't anybody report on all the pension money the company is trying to steal? Think for the love of God, think!

madmartin, So is no check better than a little concession to keep an industry and jobs alive. Oh, I forgot, Obama will take care of them.

Ron- what percentage of your income are you willing to give up so that the head honchos still get their bonuses? And how much are you willing to give up the next time they come asking? At what point do you think the sacrifice becomes too much?

...so every industry that had unions that happens to be decimated is due to greedy industrialists?

Wow, what a revelation. The problem is always the person that created the job in the first place, and not the union that gets in between them and the employee. I feel so educated now! [/sarcasm]

When the sacrifice becomes too much, you find a new job.

Hostess CEO tripled his salary while filing bankruptcy and blaming the unions.

@MSH: Whelp, the way I read it is that 18,000 didn't want to give 8% back.

For easy math, let's just say that they each made $45,000 a year, which is probably on the low side.

$45,000 x 8% = $3,600.

$3,600 x 18,000 = $64,800,000

Suppose the CEO & Executives took $3 million in raises & bonuses. That money would have paid for about 4.5% of what the unions wouldn't budge on... if the average union employee was making 45k.

TO: Maxwell's Silver Hammer who wrote:

"Hostess CEO tripled his salary while filing bankruptcy and blaming the unions."

That is THE most accurate, and the shortest, statement on any blog that I've been on, ever!

Some of these Republicans are so full of hate they're no longer rational.

The ONLY reason this guy is closing Hostess is to retaliate against workers who are demanding a decent wage, and probably because he knows he's going to have to provide them with some form of health care as well.

Hostess has, like many other companies, been making record profits for the past 4 years now can't stand the thought of treating their employees fairly?

Sounds like he'd rather not makes those millions, and in some cases billions, of dollars every year.

The greed going around with these companies really stinks.

TO: Mark from Bridgeport who wrote:

"... Whelp, the way I read it is that 18,000 didn't want to give 8% back.

For easy math, let's just say that they each made $45,000 a year, which is probably on the low side."

There is no way in hell that any employee of a "Twinkie" factory is making $45,000 a year".

I'd be more inclined to believe that each makes from $8 to $12 an hour which would be about $16,000 a year to a maximum of $25,000 a year.

I guess you inflated the numbers to make a case where there is no case to be made.

Navy...Yeah! That'll show 'em! You really are a patriot, aren't you? Wishing the starvation of 18,000 American people who were only trying to create a better life for themselves.

People like you are the problem and until you've vanished from the social landscape of our country (soon, hopefully), we will still be mired in hatred and disdain for our fellow Americans. What you wish on working people is hateful and I hope, really, really hope, you know what it's like someday to be s*it on by someone just like yourself. You are a disgrace to your country and a shame to the armed forces.

@ Mark

From what I have read, about 5,600 employees belonged the Bakers Union. So, your math is off, by a bunch, but it would still be about $20 million.

Also, what concessions did management make those years ago? did they forgo raises until this year? which would explain the unusual raise. or maybe it is corporate hanky panky, I wasn't in the board room, and neither was anyone else here.

But to all you idiots, YES, Mismanagement @ Management led to the problem (And somebody need to fire Her). But it was 5,600 individuals or 30.3% that spoke for the Majority, and shut the business down. Ask your self this, how would like it if the Cleaning Staff, (an out side contractor) came to your company and demanding "Whatever"... the management said no, and sent you a notice, "WE are closed" don't come to work. just before Christmas...

I know one thing, having a job, that pays 8% less than what I making now is better than the job I have now. ;-)

@American Girl: I'd be more inclined to believe that each makes from $8 to $12 an hour which would be about $16,000 a year to a maximum of $25,000 a year.

Sure... please explain how do they manage to eat *and* pay their union dues, then? LOL!! $25,000 a year? What a joke.

Even this guy (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/18/1162786/-Inside-the-Hostess-Bankery) said he was at $48,000 in 2005, and $34,000 last year.

...if he's even telling it "as it is". So, here you go, at $34,000:

$34,000 x 8% = $2,720.

$2,720 x 18,000 = $48,960,000

OOO! You showed me! The unions are now only 10 times as greedy as the CEO/managers instead of 20 times!

In what world do you Rep's live in? If your running a business that is in bankruptcy, or going into bankruptcy, where do you think you can give yourself a raise at all, let alone triple your salary. To all you Rep's. I know Math isn't your strong suite, nor is facts. But you can take this to the bank. What has run more company's into the ground these days are CEO's and poor managers. These Ceo's think they have to live like Bernie Madoff, They think they need several houses, Drive the nicest cars have boats and live like kings. They are lazy and want to play gulf all the time. I can tell you as someone that has owned a company, your work is never done. You can't just say let someone else do it. It don't work like that. You have to pay all the bills, and if there is anything left then and only then can you take a pay check. And if your people are not working as hard and as fast as they should be for the money your paying them, then that is your fault also. These CEO's today are fat and lazy and have made bad calls. And what about the Boards of these company's. Why don't they fire these lazy bums? They don't do there jobs either. They are all in the good old boys Union.

@DFB: Yes, it's true that the Teamsters settled, but they did not cross the picket line and report for work. Therefore, it's on all of their heads... they supported their "union brothers" right onto the unemployment line.

@chuck:

Hostess employed 18,000 people. Of that number, the unions employed 0 people, *but* took dues from those 18,000.

Who's bad at math? The unions just cut their own thoats! The employer is in business for PROFIT, not to give people jobs.

Mark, your numbers are WAY off. The average union member at Hostess (at least here in Seattle.. with one of the higher cost of living ) was $12.00 an hour. (Thats Gross of $24000 a year)This was after a 30% pay cut last year. Management was asking for an additional 8% wage cut, all the while tripling management salaries and paying $1.75M in bonus.

This was in no way the unions being greedy. The greed lies entirely with thr private equity firm that owns teh company (Yu know.. a company just like Romney's Bain)

This was just their way of pulling all the capital out of the company. They will sell the recipes, brands & trademarks & make a hefty profit. They will pocket the cash & move on to another company to rape & try to blame the union and/or the employees.

@MFB #8.13

@DFB: Yes, it's true that the Teamsters settled, but they did not cross the picket line and report for work. Therefore, it's on all of their heads... they supported their "union brothers" right onto the unemployment line.

I'll buy that argument, although I had read that the Teamsters were urging the Bakers to sign, and weren't exactly aware of what the Bakers were doing. But yeah, it's a if you not with us you're against us kinda thing. ;-)

Of course the more that comes out, like the story by bluebarnstormer, (or maybe it is just propaganda) they more I can at least sympathize with these guys, not necessarily condone what they did.

As former business owner, I would like to see these guys (unions) wages tied to the companies P&L that way the can lose money in the bad years too, as well as profit in the good one. But it seems they only want to paid based on the good years.

DumbFarmBoy: that has not been what has happened with management. How is it possible for the management of the company to demand an 8% cut when they receive and increase of 300% ?

The current owners of the company came in after the last bankruptcy. Although it is unlikely we will ever know exactly what they paid for the stock and loans, you have to believe it is probably something very close to the $560million Bimbo offered for the company.

Regardless of what happens in these negotiations, the company could still sell out.

Business have to pay for more than the wages that people take home....

you are all forgetting the EMPLOYER pays for the following.

1) 1/2 of FICA (4.5 % of the pay right now or close to that)

2) Unemployment taxes (those are decided by the states... could be upwards of 10% of the salary of the person in question)

3) Benefits - like health care, disability, etc.

4) Insurance - to have workers on your payroll, you MUST pay for workman's comp. and insurance

5) Not to mention the things that MOST people don't even factor IN for running a business. Like land payments, utilities - heat, cooling, lights, electricity for equipment, gas or other items to run equipment, equipment, maintenance on equipment, insurance on the business and on the equipment. Cost of buying equipment, inspections (health, OSHA, Labor laws etc)

Regardless of the situation of who did what and how it happened. Instead of partnering to fix the problem they bluffed. The union also told it's own workers if they crossed the picket line they would be fined 140.00 a DAY... if you are telling me people made 12.00 a day.. for 8 hours that is 96.00 a day. so the fine was 1.5 times the daily pay of the worker? Why would the union bosses do that? The teamsters had already said the situation was dire they brought in someone to look at the books... yet these guys wanted to call their bluff - that makes no sense. Again who benefits if they win - they do, who benefits if they loose?? (no one...) - it just doesn't add up!

@ Kath63

Excellent post.

Of course I always tell people the Employer doesn't actually pay all this, they factor it in to what they can pay to have that employee. Then subtract it out. And that ends up being the employee's salary. So in essence, the employee is paying it. But don't tell the employees that...

@DFB: As former business owner, I would like to see these guys (unions) wages tied to the companies P&L that way the can lose money in the bad years too, as well as profit in the good one. But it seems they only want to paid based on the good years.

Yeah, funny that. Just like the public unions want a raise every year too, regardless of taxes. (BTW, I agree with everything else you said in your post).

@EMDF9A: Care to source that? Watch this: the average for the 200 here in Connecticut is $68,500 a year.

Average pay was 20/hr !!!!!

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/index.html

Who's bad at math? The unions just cut their own thoats! The employer is in business for PROFIT, not to give people jobs.

Umm without people working the job, there wouldn't be any profit to begin with. This is the mentality that is wrong with big corporations, at the end of the day they need employees, they need average folks. If everybody opened their own business, guess what you would have no one to employ. Appreciation goes both ways as well as respect. People deserve to have a decent living with health insurance, especially when they do all the foot work to keep your product or service afloat. While the CEO shows up twice a week, owns multiple houses and exotic cars, then when the company fails blame the union? they werent making decisions that warrant millions of dollars a year, they were actually doing their job. too bad the million dollar men werent.

Umm without people working the job, there wouldn't be any profit to begin with.

Er, no.... A company can have lots of worker and make no profit VERY easily. Look at JCPenny.

Look, you can bash the CEO all you want. That doesn't change the math -- and I see Jeff found a link showing the average was something like 42k a year!

Yes, there should be respect on both sides of the table. But complaining about $4 million vs $50+million is like complaining about your ingrown nail while you're dying of cancer.

@American Girl: Congratulations! You were only off regarding what you thought the average Hostess union worker made by 170% ($25,000) to 265% ($16,000)!

I'm sorry I was off by 6% ($3,000) in my original estimate.

@Jeff: Thanks for that link!

You may rethink your "Obama Lies" monicker. The President has NOTHING to do with this and the Baker's Union was working with Hostess before he was born. If you can't get over being a LOSER in the election, don't be a LOSER in life. Spare us the mindless vitriol, which is a big reason why thinking voters gave President Obama a second term.

APatriot1

You may rethink your "Obama Lies" monicker. The President has NOTHING to do with this and the Baker's Union was working with Hostess before he was born. If you can't get over being a LOSER in the election, don't be a LOSER in life. Spare us the mindless vitriol, which is a big reason why thinking voters gave President Obama a second term.

Pot meet Kettle...

Apatriot1 You are wrong! Dont you know that Obama is pro union. The entire obama message is that Businesses are greedy and the workers are innocent slaves. Well...Hostess was already in trouble financially because of the sugar tariffs ( more government meddling) but might have survived if the unions and their workers weren't so greedy! They cut their own throats! And the rest of America can expect more of the same with this obama administration. High taxes on businesses means NO JOBS fools!

Hostess Twinkies’ former CEO tripled his salary earlier this year to $2.55 million while the company knew it was heading towards bankruptcy.

APatriot obviously didn't even read the comment posted and went purely off the pretty pretty avatar picture. No where did "Obama Lies" say that the president was responsible for anything. Learn to read instead of just looking at pics, you might learn something.

@ Apatriot1 #9.1

You may rethink your "Obama Lies" monicker. The President has NOTHING to do with this and the Baker's Union was working with Hostess before he was born. If you can't get over being a LOSER in the election, don't be a LOSER in life. Spare us the mindless vitriol, which is a big reason why thinking voters gave President Obama a second term.

I damn near spit coffee all over my monitor as I read your comment, "Thinking Voters" now that's funny, or at least it would be if it weren't so sad.

Thinks about this

HOW COULD YOU VOTE FOR A KNOWN, SELF-PROCLAIMED COMMUNIST? “I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active BLACK (emphasis added) students…The Marxist Professors and structural feminists..” Dreams From My Father-Barack Obama.
-
HOW COULD YOU VOTE FOR A KNOWN RACIST AND BIGOT?(see above and also) "But I had also imagined him an independent man, a man of his people, opposed to WHITE (emphasis added) rule… What Granny had told us scrambled that image completely, causing ugly words to flash across my mind. Uncle Tom. Collaborator. House @!$%#.” “Dreams from my Father”, Barack Obama.

Unless of course he was lying about his college days affiliations? But yes, Obama has nothing to do with this story. But you are changing the Subject, aren't you, "Obama-Lies" made no mention of Obama other than is moniker. (so who's the LOSER?)

And I would agree, there was mismanagement, in Management. But what the heck, "They Stole my pension" (which maybe they did) I'll show them, and kill the whole company so they can't do it to some one else, and take away any chance of getting my pension back.... something about a nose and a face, a foot and a shooting...

Shosyn: "Pot meet Kettle..."

That's right Shosyn--look in the mirror and say HELLO!

Wolverine: "Hostess Twinkies’ former CEO tripled his salary earlier this year to $2.55 million while the company knew it was heading towards bankruptcy."

THANK YOU! $2.55 million to one CEO--and another $1.75 million to 19 managers--but it's the workers' fault for wanting a living wage. They aren't paying the workers millions of dollars each, are they?

No. They'll just file for bankruptcy like they did 8 years ago--and reform like they did 8 years ago... Poor CEO's! Cry me a river!

DUMB BOY: "I find it interesting, that MSNBC has to "Edit", CENSOR, his majesty himself, Barack Husein Obama.

It should read..."n* i g g *e*r"

And I find your racism, ignorance and bigotry disgusting and disgraceful. Shame on you! Did your mama not teach you any manners and/or common courtesy?? Shame on you!

From my post #8.6 above: the union's $64 million gun to Hostess' head far exceeded the $4 million the CEO & managers took.

Obama lies. This company is dying from a self inflicted wound. It was poor judgment that caused Hostess to fail. You can not ask labor to take less and try to give Management $1.5 million in bonuses. If you would do that then your just plain stupid.

Dumb farm boy. Your named is spot on. You are as dumb as a rock. Does your hair hurt? You people wouldn't know a communist if they set on your face and wiggled. Your lemmings. You would follow Mitt Romney right off the cliff like you did Little Bush. You just follow blindly and don't even look where your going. I see why you think Romney is a hero. He stole his money from people that worked a life time. Romney came along and took over there company, stole their retirement funds and sold off the company. He stole his millions and you think that is fine. I can only hope that happens to you some day. Maybe then you will open your eyes.

@Mawwell's Silver Hammer #9.10

DUMB BOY: "I find it interesting, that MSNBC has to "Edit", CENSOR, his majesty himself, Barack Husein Obama.

It should read..."n* i g g *e*r"

And I find your racism, ignorance and bigotry disgusting and disgraceful. Shame on you! Did your mama not teach you any manners and/or common courtesy?? Shame on you!

Evidently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Did you not read the previous post? I was merely clarifying what President Obama wrote in his own book. And was pointing out that censorship is the way of a tyrant.

And it is not my racism I was pointing out, did you not read the Quotes from his majesty himself. Did you not understand their meaning?

And yes, my mother raised me with manners and respect. So, I try to answer the questions as posed to me, instead of changing the subject. How about you? Can you answer the question posed?

And, I pose this question to you, How am I a racist? ignorant? or Bigoted? for posting quotes from BHO?.

@ Chuck #9.13

Dumb farm boy. Your named is spot on. You are as dumb as a rock. Does your hair hurt? You people wouldn't know a communist if they set on your face and wiggled. Your lemmings. You would follow Mitt Romney right off the cliff like you did Little Bush. You just follow blindly and don't even look where your going. I see why you think Romney is a hero. He stole his money from people that worked a life time. Romney came along and took over there company, stole their retirement funds and sold off the company. He stole his millions and you think that is fine. I can only hope that happens to you some day. Maybe then you will open your eyes.

Spoken Like a true liberal, Change the Subject, Ignore the Facts, Marginalize and Name Call. I see that you are as illiterate as MSH.

To answer your statement, I do recognize a communist when I see one, and I recognize the danger they represent. Do you?

At what point did I say I was a Mitt Romney follower? I have posted this several times, Romney is a RINO, a progressive and I care little for his politics. However, at least he is neither a Communist nor a racist Bigot.

And how many millions did Obama steal from the American Taxpayer to give to these so-called Green Companies that are now bankrupt?

And it has already happened to me. If you’ll notice in one of posts here I am a former business owner, and thanks to the Democrats and a lesser extent, BHO, I have lost it. So yes, my eyes are wide open.

I no longer live on a farm, hence the "Dumb" part, worse thing I ever did was get a Degree in Mechanical Engineering and move to the City and have to live in and amongst bigoted, myopic, inane morons like you. (see, I can name call too)

My guess is you are too ignorant or of a sufficiently diminished mental capacity to formulate a cognitive and cohesive argument to support your position. And you must revert to parroting what others have said, even though you fail to fully comprehend what was said. But hey, you're cool, right? You sure told me off.

20/HR !! FOR STUFFING FILLING !!!

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/index.html

F THAT UNION !!

Uh, and then what to do you think happens? They magically produce money and continue on? Liquidation allows the company to be sold to another company and possibly open back up. Liquidation allows Hostess to pay its final bills to its creditors who will be screwed otherwise.

Todd, didn't you know? Money is magical and just comes out of thin air! That's the secret that liberals have known for years and Conservatives haven't figured out!

Just check with the federal reserve, they can print it easily!!

I made a deliberate effort to avoid the "money grows on trees" being spouted by Ms. Pelosi.......But I figured some other fiscally responsible people would bring that up. I was right!

Actually, Todd, since money is made of paper and paper is made from trees--money does "grow on trees."

;^)

Actually did you know that money isn't made out of paper? please don't talk out of your ass as it just makes you seem idiotic.

Todd. Who would these Conservatives be you are talking about? Because it is sure not the Rep's. The called themselves that the whole time they were spending money like drunken sailors. " John McCain" So just who are the conservatives. Talk is cheep. And Conservatives and Conservative Christians, well they just are not real. Wolf's in Sheep's clothing. American's have seen you for what you are. We know your all layers and Cheats. Crooks and con men. Your days are over. Carl Rove has spin his last tail.

Get it done already..... The union member do not want to work, they just want another Hand Out..... Unions are the Legal Mafia.....

Yeah, I don't really see a downside to any of this. The assets will be sold to another company that will likely hire these workers back again (or most of them) when they ramp up production, in the meantime consumers will hopefully make better product choices.

DRGerrow: there are no better choices. Twinkies, Ho Hos, Donnetts are the staples of life.

"Man can not live by bread alone."

It won't die. The Mexican company will buy it and take all the jobs to Mexico and the USA is a big, stupid loser. Americans can now buy their twinkies from Mexico at a greater expense and enjoy the increased unemployment rate.

maybe than all the illigals will go back to mexico and get jobs

@Vicki Brown .. What? Your saying all those 18,000 people are from Mexico making an ungodly amount and the union is backing them up? Ahh So, it makes sense now! "Ya Dummy!"

Todd

Twinkies is an icon for everything that is bad about commercialism in the US. A product that has no nutritional value being sold as a snack for overweight children thereby demonstrating how powerful focus group advertising can be.

If your kids are overweight that is YOUR fault, not Twinkies. Now stop ruining my good name...

Brian-1075075 typical liberal way of thinking....blame the Twinkies and not the person choosing to eat it.

So brian and American - I guess you would be in favor of bailing out Hostess on this one? I'm not. They're bankrupt, it's management's fault, not the union's.

Brian, There has to be a group home somewhere in your area with a vacant bed.

That's brian 1075075 by the way.

Brian 1075075

I told you to stop ruining my good name with your idiotic prattle (look it up or have your Union rep look it up for you).

They are bankrupt because in part of poor management no doubt. However, they were working to rebuild but then a bunch of FACTORY workers getting paid way more than their value deserved dictated they be paid decided to strike ,which is what led to Hostess going out of buiness. In the words of a Mr. Andy Dufresne "WHY ARE YOU BEING SO OBTUSE"????

No bail outs. Let the free market work itself out. You will probably see a much more efficient and streamlined Hostess emerge out the other end.

Brian- Twinkies represent everything that is good in America. You have the right to chose whether or not you eat them or feed them to your kids. The problem came with the unions who represent the workers at Hostess. Competing agendas between the various unions bankrupted Hostess as the requirements for each of the unions got more complicated. I heard on the news that Hostess has over 400 different union requirements, with some of the requirements conflicting with other. For example, they couldn't transport Twinkies with Wonder Bread because of some weird Teamsters vs. Bakers union clause.

@ Brian-1075075 #12.1

Todd

Twinkies is an icon for everything that is bad about commercialism in the US. A product that has no nutritional value being sold as a snack for overweight children thereby demonstrating how powerful focus group advertising can be.

Check my post at #4.1

Breads
Wonder
Nature’s Pride
Merita
Home Pride
Beefsteak
Butternut
Millbrook
Eddy’s
J.J. Nissen
Sweetheart
Cotton’s Holsum
Sunbeam
Bread du Jour

Twinkies are not the only thing Hostess makes, idiot.

They are bankrupt because in part of poor management no doubt

And everything else is window dressing, without substance, just like the product line that would be best left to die.

Twinkies represent everything that is good in America.

You're kidding right When did a complete lack of nutritional value in a "food product" come to represent the best of the US? If empty calories is the best we've got, our society is in serious trouble.

Todd: " but hopefully other unions out there will take notice when a company says they need to reduce labor costs or go out of business

But hopefully other management and CEOs will take notice and NOT triple their salaries to $2.55 million ($2.55 MILLION DOLLARS!) when they say their company is in financial trouble and may go out of business.

Remeber the old adage.."those who can- do, those who can't- teach, those who can't do or teach- join a union" I added that last phase for the ignorant masses.

Have you tried a Little Debbie Nutty Bar? They rock!

I guess you're having a little trouble detecting the inconsistency in your logic between this post and 12.2. If you're going to blame unions for poor management decisions by the company, I can blame corporate advertising for fat kids.

One post has nothing to do with the other genius. One was in response to you for blaming twinkies for fat children and one was about the stupidity of unions. Hell, maybe you are a rep, you seem about as bright as one.

It's always sad to see Brian-on-Brian violence...

see 12.12

The Venture Capital group that raided the company that raided the Hostess pension fund and other assets got theirs, everyone got a bonus. They couldn't have done a better job at sucking this company dry if their name was Bain Capital. Even Mitt is chuckling.

Man, it sucks that I had to pay the telegrapher to put this post on the Internet. STOP.

The idea that something good once is needed forever is a joke. STOP.

When was the last time you darned a sock? STOP.
When was the last time you rode a train instead of flying or driving a car? STOP.
When was the last time you read by gaslight? STOP.
When was the last time you shopped at the company store? STOP.

That was then....but now days its the other way around. We have swayed so far the other way that businesses cant survive!

Yes, and lots of things we needed laws to prevent way back in olde timey times are just accepted now.

Unions served there purpose. Non union factories in South Carolina are doing fine absorbing the union jobs leaving the rust belt. No one is getting whipped as far as I read.

More dumbazzez striking for 25 cents an hour and lost thier jobs!! Hurray for the geniuous's that work for unions>>>>I remember seeing a meat packing plant back in the late 80's during the last recession striking for 10 cents, closed thier doors. This is what happen s when you let the unions run your'e lives. When a company says they can't help you anymore, wheres your'e loyalty, you have none, just greed! That's the union mentality!

...obviously you're unaware of exactly how long a single Twinkie can fuel a Flux Capacitor...

Damn it MFB, I almost spit coffee on my monitor again...

You need the rest of the story -- the CEO was FIRED for this and the new CEO, in an effort to restore relations, cut the salaries of the four top Hostess executives to $1, to be restored on January 1 the following year.

Good ol Unions! Maybe if they filed for Bankruptcy a year ago, Obama would have bailed them out too. Its OK, once Obama-care kicks in, Twinkies would have been the first food to go anyway...

Chuck, the new CEO who was hired is a liquidation specialist and he gave himself a massive bonus too, while stealing from the worker's 401K.

SPACEMAN: "BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256."

NUFF SAID! Thank you, Spaceman!

Like our government that stolen my social security? That kind of CEO?

Ha. Better treated people aint gonna make twinkies taste better. Then again, they probably cant make the worse. I had one, and it reminded me why I stopped eating them 20 years ago. Then again, it was one I still had from 20 years ago.

the biggest problem in their cost structure is the cost of sugar. 8 times as expensive on the US market then world market, due to import tarrifs and illegal trade restictions that are being challenged in the WTO. US companies are forced to by more expensive US sugar. US sugar is the biggest lobbying group in the country in regards to money spent per size of the industry. Funny, its sugar that doomed them, both real sugar and union sugar wages...

There is no union member anywhere making $10 an hour (when that is actually the wage they deserve) even though they are basically unskilled labor... Let's see what happens to these striking morons now. Maybe they and you could start your own business and let others suck at your teet...See how that business model works for you...

BD: its not just the sugar industry, the corn industry loves it too. Do you really think that everything would have "high fructose corn syrup" if manufacturers could purchase real sugar at international market rates.

BTW: if you don't think there is a difference, try your favorite cola drink, made with real sugar (you can find it if you look) and the same make with hfcs. The difference in the flavor is amazing.

wow, so let's take your analogy and apply it to our FEDERAL GOVERNMENT who can't figure out how to reduce their own costs??

• , who voted themselves a raise,
• who get US the citizens to pay for their HEALTHCARE which isn't Obama Care (they are exempt) -
• who have retirement (after only serving one term) -
• where are THEIR morals and high ground?? oh wait they need us to pay more in taxes to help those that can't help themselves all the while we pay for Cadillac services for them??

Our own government can't get a clue.... and this is what fuels these unions they see others do it so instead of doing what is right, it's all about getting what is MINE.

hate to tell you folks something, it's not YOURS, it NEVER WAS YOURS...

and that is the trouble, everyone wants to blame others instead of taking personal responsibility for themselves... I don't eat hostess products because I am NOT paying 4.00+ for a box that I can make better at home for under a dollar.. that is ME taking personal responsibility for MY family.

why is it that Little Debbie's (which dang near has the same product is something like .67% less?) do you think it has to do with the cost of doing BUSINESS maybe???

If that is true, how did you find that out? What source do you have to back that claim up on?

he read it on the blogs so its true, after all its in print no one would lie and make things up

union leadership always keeps their jobs...

SPACEMAN: "BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256."

NUFF SAID! Thank you, Spaceman!

Hostess had six different management teams in the past eight years. None of them could turn the business around. It's a classic example of where management's poor decisions and execution were constantly blamed on employees. Then to distract from their failings, management used the courts to justify the financial rape of employees then management redistributed the wealth of savings among themselves in the form of millions in added pay, pensions and perks.

And how does this involved President Obama?

I guess his logic was that mr o helped the uaw, the bakers would be helped.

it reminds me of the newespaper unions in NYC back in the sixities. the surviving pressman made big salaries however 80% of the job went away.

question : Is it better to have a low paying job or no job.

the bakers union screwed all the other unions on this one.

they're turning americans into wage slaves.

Unions have been doing that since the 60's and 70's... Their time has come and gone. When union workers lose their jobs over 8% pay and get 100% ZERO pay, where are the unions then?

"Oh, we'll find you another job since you've been paying dues like a good surf, so go collect your unemployment and see if you qualify for EBT and a free cell phone."

Actually, Bimbo USA company is located in the United States. It's a Mexican company who decides to create jobs in the USA. While they could take the Chinese way out, read below. So please, stop with your asinine comments.

"Established in 1993, Bimbo Bakeries USA operates 14 bakeries and distributes products through 3,000 routes throughout the continental United States. Bimbo Bakeries USA is headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas, has an annual revenue of $1.2 billion and has over 7,000 employees"

Bimbo already produces a similar product known as "Submarinos" which is the Mexican equivalent of the Twinkie. Do you honestly believe Bimbo USA would want to invest on a company that's about to go out of business for the sake of keeping the Twinkie? They could just wait for the company to go bankrupt and start selling their versions of the Twinkies here. Logic people, use your brains for once.

your a jackass and liar

sirboss17: That would be "YOU'RE" (NOT 'YOUR') a jackass and a liar. "YOUR' is NOT correct. Must use "YOU'RE", which is a contraction for YOU ARE.

My friends working for Grupo Bimbo tell me they have offices in the three countries Canada, Mexico & USA. From what they I have learned from them is that Grupo Bimbo strives to care for their people that work for them plus their families. They are strong enough and have no need for the unions, since they take care of those people working for them. But they are not going to be buying out Hostess at all. They looked at them years back. Not anymore now "If" they have a union that is trying to make them payout more money. If they do buy out Hostess, they will fire all 18,000 people and start fresh with no unions at all under whatever pay they give out. But myself, I really don't see Grupo Bimbo doing anything with Hostess at all.