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Bad, or badly trained, managers are often the cause of dumb edicts.
There was the boss who wouldn’t let people eat at their desks and the retailer who informed employees that they could not leave any reading materials in the break room.
And then there was the human resources department who informed an employee she could only take three bathroom breaks a day, instead of her usual five or six.
Alison Green has heard a lot of crazy stories about random workplace policies in the course of writing her blog, Ask a Manager.
And, she and other experts expect, such rules have become even more common in recent years, as both employees and their bosses have come under pressure to do more and more work with fewer resources.
The culprit, many say: Bad, or badly trained, managers.
“We don’t know how to deal with (problems) so we create these arbitrary rules,” said Laurie Ruettimann, a human resources consultant who writes the blog The Cynical Girl.
Green notes that most managers don’t sit around thinking about what kind of draconian policy they can implement that will annoy and frustrate their workers.
Often, she said, these strange policies are a ham-handed attempt to solve a real problem, such as an employee who acts inappropriately or one who is slacking off on the job.
The better thing to do would be to deal with that employee, and that problem, directly. But Green said employers are sometimes afraid to confront an employee directly about their bad performance, or are warned by employment lawyers that they might be open to a bias claim if they single one person out.
“Rather than dealing with it in a smart, thoughtful way, they deal with it with a blanket policy,” she said.
In some cases, the policy can be a passive-aggressive way of trying to get their employees to work harder or do a better job. When Ruettimann worked in human resources at Pfizer, she said two married employees asked their managers separately if they could have a flexible schedule so they could coach soccer.
One got approval, and one didn’t. Ruettimann said the employee who wasn’t awarded the flexible schedule wasn’t thought to be doing a good enough job to deserve it. But instead of checking with the employee regularly about his performance, he was denied the perk.
Rather than implementing random rules -- such as no checking e-mail at work or no chatting with your co-workers – Ruettimann said managers should be regularly telling their employees whether they are doing a good job and how they could be doing better.
As an HR manager, Ruettimann said she also was sometimes approached by employees who wanted her to create a blanket policy to solve a specific problem, such as banning music at work because one employee was playing music too loudly.
Her response was always to tell the offended party to deal with the bad behavior directly, rather than going through HR.
“I don’t want to be a mom and that’s not why I got into human resources,” she said. “I can do that on my own time.”
If you unlucky enough to receive an all-company e-mail outlining some strange new policy, Green suggests trying to figure out what caused the policy to be implemented in the first place.
It may not result in the policy going away, but at least you’ll understand why you suddenly are being told you can’t do something that you find perfectly reasonable.
“Doing that can really help your quality of life just because you’ll stop fuming,” she said.
It may also turn out that your boss is willing to give you some wiggle room on the policy. But if you do get a verbal OK to break the rules, she suggests following up with a casual e-mail verifying that you have come to that side agreement.
As for the bosses out there, you may want to take the advice author Lisa Bodell offered in a recent Wall Street Journal article. She suggested holding a meeting and asking your employees to tell you what stupid rules are making it tough for them to do their jobs. Then, she said, get rid of the worst ones.
Readers, what’s the stupidest workplace rule or policy you’ve ever encountered? Share your stories below or on our Facebook page.
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Welcome to modern day corporate culture .
This is just a sample of things to come, when the employer does not have to answer to anyone. If you still think unions are a bad thing, then think again. Today's employers think nothing about breaking state or federal laws in the work place. They tilt the playing field in their direction and the employee always looses. Why does the employee always loose ???? Because they have no representative to fight for them and stand up to the boss. Work rules are a two way street and each side must o bide by them like it or not. But when the boss goes nuts with bull sh#@ rules they must be put back in their place.
I chuckle; it's been this way in manufacturing for years. WELCOME! You all with an education thought you were special sh!t? Nope. They got us, now it's up a rung. Rinse and repeat.I read a great article the other day about how 'sociopaths' are running the US business world now. How? 40+ years ago a supervisor/manager worked their way up the ladder from the floor. They learned people skills along with work ethic. Today, the rush for 'talent' occurs so fast that the APPARENT best candidate for the job is either a college boy fresh out or a real go getter from the floor. Trouble is; neither knows squat. If the candidate is a true bastard, you have no history of such and no opportunity to weed them out.
Find a better job, one that is run by human beings and not dictators. :) Thank goodness I have never worked in the manufacturing business. I'd never make it.
LMAO..five or six bathroom breaks a day??? If that bad they have to go so much..they should visit a doctor!
Mike - 5 or 6 bathroom breaks is a result of drinking water, a healthy amount.
when you drink pop, you dont pee nearly as often.
so if you arent peeing at least 4-5 times a day, you arent getting your water intake.
YOU should see the doctor...
Jessica..I bet those who do go 5-6 times a day..never told their employer that when they applied for the job! :)
Think its more like..people going into the bathrooms to fess with hair or do some thing else that's not water related.
Jessica, 4-5 times per day is normal. 6-8 times per day at work is cause for a visit to the doctor , or just plain slacking off.
A big steamin' turd on the carpet by my desk might be an inducement to back off on some of the stupid office regulations.
As the article points out, stupid rules are sometimes the result of a boss not wanting to single out an employee for their bad behavior as they might take it badly, and that's a result of this me-me culture we have. You need only look at the comments above to see it.
The boss pays you for your time and that makes it his to do with as he pleases. He doesn't pay you to check your email or play your music or chat with your coworkers.
We tend to forget these days that when we work for someone, we owe them our obedience. They owe us a paycheck and a safe work environment. If you don't like the job requirements, you need to work somewhere else.
Mike,
"LMAO..five or six bathroom breaks a day??? If that bad they have to go so much..they should visit a doctor!"
That's what I was thinking. She either had a very weak bladder or she was sneaking out to the bathroom to snort cocaine or something. That's almost one bathroom break per hour if she works and eight hour day.
I've never had the need for a union. If you consistently perform above better than other people, it's actually pretty easy to get a raise, and be treated well.
It also helps when previous employers are calling offering you more money than you make now.
... stupid newsvine, duplicating my comment.
I agree 5-6 times a day is normal, 5-6 bathroom during an 8 hour work day with an hour lunch break is slacking off or a medical problem. If it was medical in nature the workplace would have to accomodate it under the ADA. So my guess is she's slacking if she's taking a break every 80 minutes to "go to the bathroom".
To all you idiots out there who criticize people who take more bathroom breaks than YOU think is necessary - shut your pie hole! I am a man, and I have bladder issues as a result of multiple surgeries, and you think you can tell me when and how many times I can go to the bathroom at work? Try to! I double dare you to! Your attitude that people with medical problems don't deserve to keep their jobs is evidence of your complete stupidity and lack of simple human compassion. Keeping hydrated is a medical necessity, and if the result is more than your arbitrary three breaks per day, then tough! Get over it. Get over yourselves. Get out of my face.
Amen, mymom, you stated it well. I worked one place where we were expected to use our lunch break and morning and afternoon breaks for bathroom visits. I was taking a medication that necessitated MANY trips to the loo. The required me to have my doctor to fax them a notice that he had prescribed the particular medication. I thought that went a little far.
I have the same issues as you do; multiple surgeries and smaller bladder capacity as a result. Throw in an enlarged prostate, and that's how it is.
Live with it. I have to.
If your a man going to the bathroom 6-8 times a day your probably rubbing one out. It does relieve the stress of a boss with a 1940's management style. The "Office" is pretty dead on.
What's that? Leadership? Where is the bathroom at your work that you need an organized break? I suppose this makes sense in an assembly line or similar environment. But as a rule, this is an issue if I notice that everytime I need something from you you are in the bathroom, or outside smoking, or get a cup of coffee or any combination of non work related activities. This whole defiant worker vs. passive-aggressive manager is awfully easy to fix. A little assertive communication and/or some active listening works. If people were half as tough in person as they are on blogs this probably wouldn't even be an article.
I suspect the difference is what you drink; if there's a coffee pot in that office, bathroom traffic rises- but so does productivity.
That anyone even supports the idea that any company has the right to limit bathroom access is amazing- and worrisome.
This is simple stuff: if you have sociopaths in the boardroom, they'll kill moral- and only those without options will stay.
The company across the street doing the same thing with better ethics will eventually put them out of business by attracting better talent.
Frankly, the sooner, the better- and the only reason this isn't happening more is the virtual monopolies created by mergers.
Perhaps the lesson is that deregulation, like so many other agendas of the right, simply doesn't work for anyone but the rich- because without competition, you get slavery.
As one example, how's service under the national telephone duopoly of Verizon and AT&T?
How are prices?
How do you like paying for data for both your desktop via DSL and for your cell phones- when it's the same company providing both?
And... how do they treat their employees?
Call center workers monitored by supervisors for adherence to a script, under unrelenting pressure to sell you things you'll never use to generate the highest possible arpu.
Gps on technician's trucks to track their location constantly, monitoring every minute, draconian productivity targets- and about one third of the staff they had just a few years ago.
Maybe it's time to break it all up again- and that would go for banks and every other company that's "too large to fail"- and too busy reinventing slavery to serve the customer instead of the CEO.
Are the draconian rules a ham-handed attempt to fix a genuine problem?
The answer to that may be found within these comments. We have possibly 2 generations of snots who think they are the pinnacle of wisdom, work ethics, sense, medical knowledge interpersonal skills etc. Sadly, when it is pointed out to them they are not, they get even surlier.
The first comment is well-considered and identifies the realities of the work place. Then we get pearls such as 'get a different job'. Really? You must be independently wealthy if you are so ignorant of the state of the economy. 'Safe' work place? Federal regs do prohibit a hostile environment. However, the corpocracy has held the whip hand for so long, regulations and laws have become meaningless.
I went back to school as a non-trad at a small. private college. It was like a Christopher Guest movie. The comptroller would stand outside bathrooms with a stop-watch and time anyone who got a paycheck. I wish I could remember his name. . . I'd love to make it public. I think it was Gary Something. I do recall he was way out on the evangelical/fundamentalist right wing.
Again- if it's a legitimate medical issue then you are covered under the Americans with Disabilities act.
The ADA states that a covered entity shall not discriminate against a qualified individual with a disability.[6] This applies to job application procedures, hiring, advancement and discharge of employees, workers' compensation, job training, and other terms, conditions, and privileges of employment.
Discrimination may include, among other things, limiting or classifying a job applicant or employee in an adverse way, denying employment opportunities to people who truly qualify, or not making reasonable accommodations to the known physical or mental limitations of disabled employees, not advancing employees with disabilities in the business, and/or not providing needed accommodations in training materials or policies, and the provision of qualified readers or interpreters.
But in order for your employer to accomidate your disability you need to make it known that you have one. It is not unreasonable for an employer to request documentation from your physician that you have a medically necessary reason to visit the bathroom more often then every 2-3 hours.
If you have to pee once an hour and are not in a physicians care then get thee to a doctor because that is definately a sign that there is something wrong with you.
You might be able to fool your bosses with the whole "I have a small bladder" excuse, but no one else you have to work with is buying it. I was working while 8 months pregnant and I still didn't have to use the bathroom 8-9 times in as many hours.
If you are properly hydrated you will need to pee about once per hour/hour-and-a-half. I would estimate that I use the bathroom 5-6 times during my normal 8-hour working day. There is nothing wrong with me, I just drink as much water as my body needs and do not drink soda.
Commenteri - A quick search shows you are incorrect.
Most adults urinate four to seven times a day. But some health conditions can send you in search of a bathroom 10, 20, even 30 or more times daily. And that can seriously cramp your ability to do anything else. Whether you're in a business meeting, at a movie, or in the car with your family, you're always thinking about your next bathroom break. Two bladder conditions that often cause frequent urination are interstitial cystitis (IC) and overactive bladder. Fortunately, both conditions are treatable. First, however, you need to recognize that you have a medical problem and seek help for it. Here are some tip-offs that it may be time to see a doctor.
Time to Make an Appointment?
You are urinating more frequently than normal if you:
•Urinate eight or more times in a 24-hour period, or
•Get up to urinate two or more times a night
The problem can be much more than a minor annoyance. If you urinate too frequently during the day, you may miss out on things you want to do because you're always in the bathroom or afraid to wander too far from a toilet. If you urinate too frequently at night, you may not sleep well. Your loved ones are affected, too, whenever you stop the car, cut back on activities, or repeatedly get up at night. If visits to the bathroom are controlling your life, it's time to talk with your doctor.
Medical Reviewer: Shaw, Susan MD
Mike277: "LMAO..five or six bathroom breaks a day??? If that bad they have to go so much..they should visit a doctor!"
Try again. My cousin had a medical issue, visited a doctor, and the result was that he was prescribed a diuretic (pill to make you pee often). Before the doctor visit he needed 2-3 bathroom breaks a day. After the visit it was 7-8. Generalizations like yours are wrong most of the time. Like this one.
I guess he should have just peed under his desk... ;')
BinNH - I'm not sure what your disagreeing with. Your cousin pees often due to a medical condition. It doesn't matter if the frequency is caused by the condition (overactive bladder) or if it's caused by the treatment of another condition (taking a diuretic).
No. He should have informed his boss and his HR department that he was undergoing treatment for a chronic condition and may require additional bathroom breaks. If necessary he could have obtained documentation from his doctor to keep on file. This would protect his job.
If you drink coffee, 5-6 times a day is normal. I drink 1 cup, and have to pee 3x in 2 hours!
Nowadays, most people don't work 8 hr days anymore.
Yet another "Business is BAD" article. Very few companies are like this, but the goal today is to get everyone believing that all companies are greedy and take complete advantage of their employees every chance they get.
A company i worked for was trying to be strict on bathroom breaks. So one woman peed in her trashcan as a protest. She was fired, but it slacked off alot.
In some states, bathroom breaks are protected, others don't. Xina is right, that those of us with medical issues are covered under the ADA, but she's wrong that its all medical problems. The ADA actually has classifications for "disabilities" and not for all medical issues. As for disabilities, not everyone is comfortable telling their employer about their problems. Do you really want to tell your Male employer that you have a incontinence from giving birth? I've worked for some real jerks in the past and At Will States are notoriously hard to prove wrongful termination.
Unions help and hurt, my family was rescued from financial disaster when my father was hurt. If he had not been a member of the IBEW, we would have ended up homeless with my mother having to go to work in a sewing factory for minimum wage. She'd had been a stay-at-home mom for 13 years. On the other hand, unions can become corrupt and cause more problems. So, its a delicate balance. For me I shopped around and found an employer that trusts its employees and treats them with respect and fairness. I'm not tethered to my desk and as long as I'm getting my work done, no one cares how many times I get up for coffee or to use the restroom. I also know, if I abuse that trust, I'll lose the nice job I have. As the article says, this is all about poorly trained and/or bad managers.
rkb5555,
"Nowadays, most people don't work 8 hr days anymore."
Really? You must have guessed my age! I'm retired. What hours do people work these days?
I drink a LOT of water throughout the day. I go to the bathroom a lot too. I'm perfectly healthy.
If someone tells me I can't go take a whiz, I'll go whiz on their car/truck cause I'm quitting anyways.
OSHA regulations require employers to provide clean bathrooms to their employees, and require the employer to allow employees time to use them. I believe this is a $2,000 fine from OSHA if violated. Since OSHA is self funded existing on the fines that they impose, and receives no funding from the federal government, they tend to be very quick to levy these these penalties. So the next time an employer refuses to allow you to go to the restroom, just file a complaint with OSHA.
These discussions are a perfect example of just how shallow most Americans are. Fixating on how many times someone pees a day? It's like the dog in "UP". Yell "Squirrel" or "PISS" and the simple-minded forget anything and everything. We should be discussing how the nanny state regulations have made it impossible for a boss to discipline a single bad apple, so they are forced to punish all. O HELL, what's the point, you knuckleheads won't get it anyway. SQUIRREL.
Envy and or condescension? Cant tell but both are so juvenile.
I have a technical degree and no matter how hard times get, or how bad the work environment has been, I have only been one phone call away from a new better job. In fact, since the recession started, I have changed employers twice and upped my take home cohnsiderably. Show me a union job with that perk.
Now someone with an Art Hisotry, or Phycology 4 year degree, thats different. You are basically uneducated from a proactical point of view.
Rules like above have led me to leave several employers.
Also, all you experts on number of times to pee in a day are completely uninformed. Ever heard of DIURETICS? A lot of people take Lasix etc and it makes you pee AT LEAST once an hour. So do we need a rule that only people with congestive heart failure or severe water retention are allowed x amount of pee breaks and the rest less? What about tea drinkers? That's a natural diuretic, new rule for that needed too...see how you guys are the CAUSE, not the solution?
I saw one statement here leadership, so what happens when Leadership doesn't have to follow the same rules? I heard but they are in charge it's alright for them to do as I say not as I do! Want to get fired complain. Here is a go one don't like the Job find another one! Who ever writes that go ahead do it, try I dare you!!!
Some people have bladder problems. Women have it mainly to child birth. Some of them even pee a little when the laugh, sneeze, or cough. There is a whole industry built around it and I am not referring to monthly feminine products. I worked in a organization as a outside contractor. After the organization promoted one particular incompetent puppy to management. His employees started quiting left and right because he was so bad. So we went from 12 people in the department to 4. Mr. Incompetent called my boss and complained that I was going to the bathroom to often, never answered my phone and left the control center unmanned. My boss called me and told me I had to get a hold of one of the other 3 people left and have them come and cover my location before I went to the bathroom. I told him if I had to raise my hand like a schoolboy and ask permission to go to the can I would quit right then and there. I also told him that what did they think was going to happen when 4 people were doing the work of 12. Mr. Incompetent sheepishly backed away from the idea with his tail tucked between his legs.
Memo to office: In a new cost cutting measure all of your jobs will be outsourced to China where there are no bathrooms to maintain. Please feel free to submit your suggestions or comments to the suggestion box located outside of the bathrooms.
working for america,
"In a new cost cutting measure all of your jobs will be outsourced to China where there are no bathrooms to maintain."
They do have bathrooms in China, but if you have never used an Asian toilet, you probably would not want to, either. Unlike our toilets that you sit on, theirs is basically a porcelain bowl sunk down in the floor that you have to squat over while you do your business. Using one is no fun. Maybe they designed them that way to keep office workers from taking too many bathroom breaks.
ScoMata1964, I am sure you're not writing these companies. If so I doubt with your spelling you are increasing your pay "considerably".
I've been the defacto head of HR for most of my career. Every once in a while, I'll get a manager or even an owner who wants to put into place a "bathroom rule." I then explain to them the consequence of such a rule, in today's world of litigation and the ADA.
Most of the time, the situation is either a manager who is a control freak or an employee who is slacking off. Also, since smoking inside buildings is now prohibited and easily detected, the incidence of employees sneaking off to the bathroom to get a smoke has dropped.
The article is absolutely correct, most silly blanket rules result from HR managers who don't understand the full situation and/or are not strong enough to handle a department head. In good companies, the person in charge of HR is second only to the company president or the Chairman/CEO and can often override the CEO in matters that affect the whole company. A bad HR decision can affect the whole company and cost it millions.
I'm sorry, but I fail to see what is so wrong with only(??) three bathroom breaks. A break in the morning, lunch, a break in the afternoon and three bathroom breaks and you're still not happy. As far as eating at your desk, I would prefer to step away from my desk for break or lunch. If clients/customers will be coming to your desk, then you should refrain from eating there.
No reading materials in the break room is going a little far, but it's such a small thing. Flexible hours, when possible, would be a much more important thing to for which to fight.
The bathroom break rule could be a problem for people with disorders related to needing to go frequently.
I take a med for hypertension that's a diuretic. If you only want me to take 3 bathroom breaks a day you better allow me a urine flask in my office.
I don't think it's right to put a number on the amount of times you expect someone to go to the bathroom. Everyone goes and it's kind of funny how everyone always uses an euphemism for pooping. Healthy people are pooping everyday.
dabsgram, there are entirely to many of us who drink lots of water each day for some knucklehead to tell us how many times we can go to the restroom, that is obsurd. No one can control someone elses bodily needs.
There are smokers in my office who take more than 3 smoke breaks a day. And they are typically away from their desk much longer than someone who is using the bathroom.....
dabsgram - you probably fail to see how 3 bathroom breaks wouldnt work for people who drink water, because you likely dont drink very much of it.
i'd prefer to go to the bathroom when I have to go, rather than holding it for my designated break and risk bladder infection.
why is that so hard to understand? drink more water, you might have a clue.
Someone who needs to use the bathroom is unlikely to do a good job while they're waiting. I agree with princessbride that smokers waste far more of the company's time than people who pee a lot.
Jessica, if you must pee 5 times a day; meaning if you are filling your bladder that many times, just means you are drinking an excess of water and your body is just pushing it through. Talk to Any doctor, that much water will not hurt you but it is certainly is not necessary. The amount of water a body required depends on what it is doing, bottle water at the desk has turned people into into habitual water drinkers instead of drinking when you are thirsty, BTW- Its not unhealthy to become thirsty every now and again.
I agree..... Three breaks plus lunch is basically every 2 or so hours right? The same ones bitchin' about this are the same ones sitting infront of the TV playing Xbox for hours at a time......without a break.....
Only 3 bathroom breaks? Ok Boss. I'll just drop this unscheduled / unplanned deuce right here in the aisle!
princessbride you are right on...but its culturally acceptible, especially if the boss smokes. They waste more time than anyone else..to fuel a bad habit. This bathroom break debate is absolutely absurd. I drink water and tea.that makes for bathroom breaks..maybe not 6 times but I don't want someone counting my pee breaks...its just wrong.
It wouldn't be a rule if it wasn't something people are abusing.
And if it's for a true medical reason then the company would have to make a reasonable accomindation under the ADA.
The OP is right. If you go before your shift startsat 8am. Go on your 10am break, go at Lunch, go on your 3pm break... 3 additional potty breaks should be more than sufficient to get you through the day. If you need 5-6 that means you are away from your work an hour a day in addition to the 1-1.5 hours of scheduled breaks you already get. That means that the employer is paying you for 8 hours and you're only giving him 6-7 hours a day of actual work. It's not fair to the other employees who have to pick up your slack and don't get raises and bonuses because the department isn't as productive as it should be. If you need the occasional 4th break here and there I'm sure it's not going to be an issue. If it's all the time, then HR can refer to this "rule" to discipline you. That's why the rules exist, to give the employer a basis to discipline employees who try to work the system.
I work in a warehouse setting, where in the summertime, it can get to over 100 degrees in the warehouse (even though we have some exhaust fans in parts of the warehouse). The need for drinking water while in the warehouse is a necessity due to possible heat related illnesses. At the same time, when you do drink water to maintain bodily functions, it has to go somewhere. Either as sweat, or as urine. For those who are putting an arbitrary number on how many times a person should take a bathroom break is insane and absurd. Everybody's body works differently, no two are alike. I do agree with the smoker's issue. Too many times at my last job did I see people go outside and light up, taking far more breaks than those who didn't smoke, and had to take the company approved breaks. I feel that smokers take far more advantage than those who have to pee.
K. Truant - If you wait until you are thirsty then your body is already dehydrated. Sounds like you need to find a new doctor... because most will tell you to drink 8 servings a day. If you only need to pee three times in 8 hours than you are definitely not achieving that goal.
I love how so many people on this site are referring to their morning and afternoon breaks! Guess what? Texas doesn't mandate breaks and I've worked for several companies who don't have them for office workers. Having been in California for 30 years, it was a bit of a shock. However, I've never had a supervisor who objected to me taking bathroom breaks or even stepping outside to get a breath of fresh air.
I have to ask as a woman, should we simmer in our monthly waste materials? Honestly 6 times in 8/ 9 hours is a tad frequent, but there are certain times in the month that a woman is required to utilize the restroom more frequently than average. I was raised that when you have to go you go, why would you be FORCED to hold a bowel movement for hours on end? Wouldn't that be considered cruel and unusual punishment?
Monae - the arbitrary number is probably relating to a manufacuring atmosphere. It's possible that if you work on an assembly line then the whole operation is held up if you have to leave your station. Depending on your job, everyone elses productivity may depend on yours.
As for that time of the month, Getting a change every 2 hours seems reasonable to me. Assuming you use the bathroom before you clock in at 9, take 3 potty breaks at 11, 1, and 3 and go again after you clock out at 5 before heading home, you're not exactly "stewing" in it. Though I've found that if I have ever needed an extra break due to that simply informing a manager that I have a "Female issue" that requires immediate addressing is usually sufficient to get additional time. You could probably even get sent home early if you wanted for that excuse! LOL
To all of you that think needing to go often means you are drinking too much:
1) Often diuretics are prescribed for many medical conditions, and can cause people to need to go about once an hour.
2) People who tend to develop kidney stones are required to drink several liters of water daily in order to dilute their urine to aid in the prevention of stones. Which is better, a few quick bathroom breaks or days out of work to deal with a kidney stone? DUH!?!
If you have neither of these issues, good for you (really!) and thank your lucky stars. But that's no reason to discriminate and penalize those who do. If you think this is unreasonable, you should also eliminate smoking breaks - they take up MUCH more time than a quick trip to the can.
Actually it is unhealthy. When u become thirsty, your body has already signaled to you that you are dehydrated and you need to replenish fluids lost. Most people don't drink enough water.
Some people don't have a medical issue, they just don't have much in the way of bladder capacity. How often I need to pee is a running joke in my family, but there's nothing wrong with me.
Fortunately, the bathroom is 10 feet from my desk at work, lol.
I have Crohns Disease, so I go often. I hold a full time job and pay taxes. Or would it be better, if I quit my job and go on government disability?
Commenteri
Is your bladder the size of a walnut? You can drink 8 glasses a day does not mean you must pee 8 times a day. BTW - That 1965 claim that you must drink 8 glasses a day has been reduced greatly, it was found to be fundamentally flawed, sorry to burst your bubble. And being thirsty is NOT a sign of dehydration, that's like saying being hungry is a sign of starvation, what a asinine comment. Doctors also say you are supposed to excessive 2 hours each day, does that mean you should set up a treadmill at your desk? If someone cant hold their pee at least 2 hrs after the previous one then they are drinking too much or need to get there bladder checked.
Thank you Dr. Truant.
I'll be sure to send your recommendation to my urologist who did recommend at least 64 oz of water (8, 8oz glasses) every day.
And if an employee does have "a bladder the size of a walnut" do you really want to get into an OSHA, US Dept. of Labor and ADA fight over someone spending and extra 5-15 minutes a day going to the bathroom ? Assuming they spend 15 minutes and you pay them $50 an hour (I know that's high, but it makes the example) that costs you $3,250.00 per employee per year.
A legal fight over that 15 minutes will cost you $10,000, per employee, minimum, plus the $20,000 to $50,000 your lawyer will cost you.
Tell the manager to quit being a little tyrant and let the employees go to the bathroom.
I have been blessed with an office to myself so I have some privacy. My boss also understands the importance of taking a break from work from time to time. I don't remember the last time I took an actual break but it is understood that there is no problems with checking something out on the internet from time to time when buried in work to give the brain a refresher.
I don't understand why people would have time to complain when most of us have more work than time.
What's truly sad is that there are so many pathetic individuals who think they need a union to speak for them. The best known way to decrease productivity, increase product cost, and increase the chance of losing your job due to a plant closure is to unionize. Sheep will be lead by the nose by SOMEONE whether it be a company boss or a union boss. The sheep are still going to be taken advantage of. It's just a matter of which boss will profit from it.
Or you can call in Bain Capital and decrease the productivity, part out the company, and send everyone packing. Six and a half dozen of the other. I'd rather take my chances with the union. At least they're not going to send my job to China so they can pocket a few more bucks. Those of you with the anti-union attitudes should visit a history book and quit drinking the kool-aid the person above swallowed.
Really?
Go work for a telephone company doing outside craft- if you can make it in- only two in a thousand applicants do.
It still pays pretty well because it's just not something most people can do.
They have a union, and they need it.
The rule of thumb is simple: the best companies to work for don't need unions- but the worst do.
Get a clue, bub- corporations are a lot like cancers- not so dangerous small, but incredibly lethal when they get larger.
Once the bean counters get their mitts on the work force, it's hell on earth and that goes for the customer too.
If you have a problem don't create more rules to fix the problem.
Don't Hand out incentives to fix the problem.
Rules and Incentives kill true Wisdom used to fix problems.
if your boat is leaking water, you don't drill another hole to drain it out.
Replace the board with the hole.
Some of those rules have been around for so many years I can't count but when it comes to bathroom breaks I used to have many but I used drink a lot of water but my breaks lasted moments and not several over the top minutes.
When I was working and I worked with Cubans with a Cuban boss they could go for bathroom breaks as long as they wanted to without a problem but I was one of lowly American that spoke English only. So when I would go to the bathroom my boss would follow me to make sure that is what I was doing and not just talking there like the Cubans would do. One day I got sick and tired of her doing that so when I got done I went over to her and asked her did she need something everytime I went to the bathroom or what or were just spying on me?
All I can say she stopped doing it but it took all of my guts to that because I was scared to stand up for myself.
The same thing happened to my husband and he had the same thing he was the only American in his place of business as well and the Cubans and other latins would get away with whatever they wanted to do but the lowly American was harrassed on continual basis because they wanted us to quit but we never did so the only thing they could do is fire us and that is exactly what they did now both his company and my bank are ALL Cuban or other latins of some kind.
carol - I want to be sympathetic to your story, but in reality...you two white people got a small taste of what non-whites go through all the damn time.
it sucks huh?
Jessica - you do know that Americans come in all colors right? I don't see where she said she and her husband were white. They may well have been black or asian. And last time I checked, many Cubans were white.
Regardless though.... I don't think that anyone deserves to be treated differently based on their race, ethnicity, culture, religion etc. Just because other groups are routinely discriminated against by a certain group (i.e. minorties by whites) doesn't make it right or cosmic justice or anything for the inverse to happen (i.e. whites discriminated by latinos). If it's wrong for one it's wrong for all. Would you tell a male rape victim "You got a small taste of what women go through all the time?" Wrong is wrong. Period.
Bathroom breaks? Really? I am so happy to have been in a career where I could use bathroom, make phone calls etc whenever I wasn't seeing a pt or making chart notes, researching or doing some other office work...This is disgusting. I am sorry for all of you going through this nonsense. It all sucks. Employers who don't know how to treat people properly deserve to deal with a union. I am sorry all you business owners whoa re tyrants, your employees are HUMAN BEINGS just like you. Show some respect with common sense rules and your productivity will skyrocket...
As for turning this into a political argument, racial issue or based on anything else besides human rights and working conditions, it only further divides us into squabbling splinter groups and Yes. Last I heard Cubans AND East Indians are Caucasian....what a lot of people call "White". The only people who are truly WHITE are Albinos.
rbk555
Saying you are dehydrated because you are thirsty and stating it is unhealthy is absolutely bogus! Its like saying you are starving because you are hungry, simply not true, and going thirsty and hungry every now and then IS good for the body. BTW - the statement that most don't drink enough water is mostly untrue as well, because most people drink other fluids and even eat eat foods that hydrate the body. The 8 glasses a day rule has been reduced by doctors to 4. You are probably one that believes that coffee doesn't hydrate either would be my guess.
Unless you are a doctor your posts have no relavance .
You sound like the little brown noser in the corner desk that has their lunch packed by mommy
I would just drop my draws and pee in my wastepaper basket. LOL
Unions are a bad thing, they were needed years ago, now there are labor laws to protect employees. Corporations without unions are not bad. Don't let this article scare you. Yes, there are more rules, but they are flexible. When they are not, remember, you are getting paid to work there. Do your job and pick your battles. There are bad managers who are clueless, they eventually get dealt with. And be patient, managers change every 12-18 months, so you will get a good one in the rotation. I think unions spoil the employees, whining that they didn't get a big enough raise or bonus or their pension or sick time or benefits. God, just shut up and do your job. We went without raises for a few years, now we get small ones. Join the rest of us. I am sick and tired of listening to union workers whine in the news.
And I'm sick of listening to 20 year old know nothings who didn't bother to read a history book. Laws are changed by bad politicians at any time they want to. Union contracts are negotiated and are not changeable because a couple of Koch heads spent millions to change them. Think about it. Quit bending over for a paycheck. Move on, start you own company but you don't owe your soul to anyone for a paycheck. That mentality is dangerous.
Looks like SunnyUSA would be happier in SunnyNorthKorea or SunnyMexico. The corporations got to love you, Sunny.
Has anybody ever really read about the UNIONS the mafia was working both side clowns. You were on strike when they wanted to pressure the owners to get something and when the owners gave in you were off strike! The owners and the Unions hired the mafia to help with strikes otherwise the unions would have had no power the owners would have hired strike busters, the police and the Government were on the side of the businesses, read!
Dear bubba...the mafia won.
It lives in Washington now.
It's called "the two party political system", and corporations- many the result of mob money applied to more "legitimate" rackets- own it.
Unions have always been about worker's rights.
If some were suborned- and I don't contest that- then their membership failed in the exact same way most Americans have: a failure of vigilance allowed undesirable elements to gain control.
In the end, it was political involvement- you just can't play with that much excrement and come out clean.
Churches are making the same discovery.
When they cease to pursue their core agenda of salvation and start to pursue theocracy, they cease to work for God and begin to work for Satan.
The biggest thing that I and my husband had was the screaming of the Spanish all day long over my head to the point I had horrible headaches at the end of the day.
I had a very important job there as others and some how they could scream all day long get away with it make mistakes because they were either screaming all day long or on the phone with family but as soon as I would even speak to someone my boss would tell me I was talking to much or get a personal phone call from my husband once a day and they didn't like that but I told them even prisoners are allowed phone calls.
Peter principle at work. People rise to the level of their incompetence. Or it could be the Dilbert principle: the idiots are promoted to management because they're too stupid to do the real work.
I've met very few effective managers. Fortunately my current one is fantastic, previous one, not so much.
Oh, brother have I been there. Last one was Dilbert. The one before him was just a cruel bastard and top management knew it. Our department hired and lost 15 people in 18 months. finally, top management said something to the effect that either you're treating employees badly or not being choosey enough in your hiring. It was both. His treatment of us didn't improve, but all top management cared about was that the department ran ok. He left after 8 years. It was like a weight lifted off our shoulders.
Remydon, I'm thinking that would be the "Bossbert" principle since Dilbert isn't the stupid boss (although the ultimate 'world' is 'Dilbert' so it works either way). But yes, clever association.
Same here, Remydon. I can count the number of effective managers I've worked with on one hand. They were intelligent, enlightened, conscientious business leaders. On the other hand, most of the others were from the "how dare you duck when I throw crap at you" school of business management: stupid, vindictive, and self-serving in every way.
I work for one of the largest financial institutions in the country. You would think their rules and regulations would be tighter then a banjo string. Quite the contrary. Associates are treated fairly and with respect. I come in and give them an honest day's work and in return, I recieve an honest day's pay.
Be particular who you work for and never accept disrespect in the work place. My granfather told me this long ago....."boy, you'll spend at least a third of your day working. You best make damn sure you enjoy what you're doing."
This has always proven to be sound advice.
Sorry but I disagree with the notion that employers need to track down employees to tell them how they are doing. Employees should take charge of their own careers and ask. On the employer side they should be able to communicate an employees performance in a clear, and concise way and should be able to provide guidance on how to improve their performance level. To sit back and expect your employer to manage your career for you though, that is a good way to ensure you never move up.
As for stupid unprofessional rules...my feedback to them is typically going to given in the form of a resignation. I am not a child, I won't be treated like one, I am not going to ever be told how often I can use the restroom, email, etc etc. If my employer cannot treat me as a human being with professional courtesy, then I am gone. No job is worth the indignity. And before it is asked no, I am not unemployed, I have not been unemployed in 25 years (knock on wood) and work for the best company in the world for my field.
I once had a direct supervisor, who when I asked for feedback on how I was doing on the job, told me "I'll tell you when you screw up." Now that's positive feedback.
Gouranga - It sounds like you have an office job that gives you a fair amount of freedom to supervise yourself. One must recognize that there are many different types of jobs. For example, where I work (my company processes human tissue for transplant) there are many jobs that require the employee to enter a clean room via an air lock and go through decontamination procedures everytime they leave their station. Going to the restroom isn't as simple as just walking across the hall to the ladies room. There are procedures in place and every unscheduled bathroom break creates a disruption. It's even part of the job description that one must be able to work for certain periods of time (I believe 4 hrs, but I'm not sure) without a break to maintain aseptic conditions. That's one type of job that scheduled or limited bathroom breaks make sense. I happen to work in customer service, one of our jobs is to answer the phones. We have to be at our desk and available to do that. While we are not limited to the number of breaks we get, we are evaluated quarterly based on our metrics, one of which is how much time we have our phones "unavailable" to answer calls. This could be due to potty breaks or personal calls or getting a cup of coffee or taking a smoke break. It doesn't matter why you're away from the phone, so long as you're not away too often.
See Xina that is the major problem with most companies I am in and I have been exposed to about every corporate vertical out there. The metric they should look at is output. How productive is this employee being? If you take 3 hours worth of bathroom breaks, then the expectation should be, you stay 3 hours later to get that work done IF you metric is something like hours on the phone assisting customers. If you are a customer service call center, more important than hours at the phone is how many customers did you serve and what was the satisfaction rating for those calls? But they look at metrics like seconds you are on the phone instead.
Don't get me wrong I have worked a number of jobs and been exposed to everything from quick service restaurants to manufacturing to financial services to literally rocket science. The one constant is meaningless metrics. My company even has SOME of them but is better than most. For the specific example you brought up about working in a clean room, yeah, that is one good example where a bathroom break is not quick. But my expectation from that person (assuming they do not impact the work of others) is that they will spend the time working extra to make up for it and the work will get done.
This is all due to ne'er-do-wells who abuse the principle that adults will act as adults in an adult enviornment. They "hide out" in restrooms to chat on their phones etc., without even feigning any biological need to use the facilities.No cameras allowed in there, right ?
And you see it with company Dress Codes...Spineless HR personnel and managers...Wanna guess which "group" is the root cause of this problem...The same ones who "trash" the facilities. Call the plumber!!!.....AGAIN !!!
Three bathroom breaks a day, instead of her usual five or six. If she was taking 5 or 6 they should add in when she arrives at work, lunchtime and departure. If she got 2- 15 min brakes that's 11 times. By limiting her to just 3 times is not unreasonable.
If she was was taking 5-6 bathroom breaks a day besides lunch and the 2 - 15 min she should be FIRED. That's stealing company time.
Who gives a $hit how many times someone uses the bathroom? I use the facilities at least 5-6 times per day at work. I can complete my business in less than 2 minutes. I drink a lot of water. At least I'm not one of the loser smokers who takes smoke breaks all the time.
Dont forget to add in all those times she had her eyes closed while blinking.. probably screwed the company out of a good hour with her eyes closed. You either have no real world experience working Raymond, or you are a moron.
Well, the wanker who calls himself Scientist1 thinks you should be FIRED. In real life, he probably wears Depends, so he doesn't need bathroom breaks.
Mheurt--that made me alol at work--perhaps they should dock my pay for the few secs...LOL
scientist 1,
Nobody worries about the employers who work employees 15-18 hours a day including weekends and then are told no overtime because you are "management". To me THAT is STEALING someones LIFE. You are worried about someone "stealing" 2 15 minute breaks??? I retired at 40. My husband at 48.
We are home right now in our Pjs. Thats the best revenge....
Our company is going backwards in terms of flexibility by implementing more and more restrictive rules. New dress codes were just issued this week, not sure why. I haven't personally seen anyone wearing what I would consider inappropriate clothing. Also, instead of flexible work hours, we have gone back to a very rigid 8-5 in the office. I am fighting this one as I can not work that tight of a schedule due to family issues and schedules, and it was understood when I hired in that I needed flexibility. Unfortunately our company was bought out and the old owners/bosses were all fired. So now I am trying to find a new job due to these rules. Again, I think this new rule was brought about by one person who radically abused the work time flexibilty and instead of dealing directly with her, they implemented tight rules for all. In an era of little to no pay raises, I would think companies would try to make their employees happy by allowing some flexibility, instead of limiting raises, increasing health care costs AND making stupid new rules. Companies today don't have a clue!
funny a colleague and I were just commenting on some ofthe stupid things our management fusses bout.
they allow the smokers to take 4-5 10 minute smoke breaks but b1tch at me when i want to leave 10 minutes early to beat some of the traffic i face in my 50 mile hour and half commute...
one of our managers tried to imply that we should not have a problem with working overtime (yes we are salary) at any time or donate hours to accomplish an company goal...I promptly informed him that I already donate upto 20 hours per week in my commute...since the CEO decided to move the company office 40 miles away from original location (my original commute was 25 minutes)....
Oh and yes I am diligently looking for another job......
I swear, either it must be a requirement for people to get a lobotomy or have a low IQ score to be promoted to management.
There is also that brown smear on their nose. I have refered to a guy as "shoes" because that is all you see of him sticking out of our bosses a$$. Actually, pretty much everybody who works here recognizes it and despises him. The power of the nose.
Don't feel a union is needed or wanted?? Then live with the whims of arbitrary, unilaterial and capricious decisions by management, who of course have a different set of work values than the operative employees and who of course will always put capital issues (such as profit) before labor, unless there are checks and balances placed upon their actions
HERE IN AZ. we have the right to work law that means if you don't do what the company tells you to do they can fire you and there is nothing you can do about it
and it sucks big time.
yeah but it works both ways if you don't like the company you can resign without reason or notice.....
Yes, after you resign without notice, try to get a positive recommendation.
You really don't know how the real world works, do you? Companies these days don't give positive recommendations, or negative recommendations, and will only verify the dates of employment. The possibility of a lawsuit for libel or slander will stop any company with brains from doing otherwise. Any company that gives a positive recommendation, and then doesn't for someone else, will be construed as giving that person a negative recommendation. Bingo! Lawsuit! Yes, there are plenty of morons out there who don't accept this, and they eventually will find themselves a defendant. Don't believe me? Get a lawyer.
Companies take pride in saying "WE PROMOTE FROM WITHIN", now that's not a bad thing, the really bad thing is that compoanies rarely provide any kind of people training. Somewhere along the line the assumption is that "we all know how to do it". WRONG. As a human resources professional with over 50 years of experience I can attest to the foregoing. More importantly, whenb the HR person suggests some form of managerial training they run into a brick wall and are told "we can't afford the down time". In reality, they can't afford NOT to do the training. Usually, when things are totally out of control executive management hollars for HR to FIX IT. It's a no win situation. After all, who needs HR anyway, they're just a pain in the neck,. always in the way, not letting managers do what they want. Oh and then they keep quoting laws and legal issues, how stupid is that? Or better yet, the executive who wants to know what the potential penalties are and then tries to balance penalty cost against potential savings. Ya gotta love them bosses who are ill equiped to manage anything.
Fred, I completely agree. My husband is one of 5 mid-level mangers at a manufacturing facility. He is the only one with a college degree. He started working there a few years ago after working at another company.
He was the first non-promoted from within manager. The rest were guys who started out as workers and go promoted over the years. They all pretty much suck at their jobs, because they were never trained. I'm not saying a college education = a better worker, but I think that combined with experience at a previous job helped my husband be a better manager than the rest of them.
There is such a stark contrast between my husband and the other managers that the plant manager made comments that "maybe we need to do a better job of hiring from the outside." They also don't provide any training to the former laborers when they get promoted. It's a big difference being the guy running the machine to the guy doing labor projections, budgets, etc, if you have never done that before.
I worked with a nice, friendly guy who was called to HR and reprimanded. He was told "do this once more and you're fired " . HR would not tell him who complained or what he had done. After that the poor guy walked around with his head down, afraid to speak or look at anyone. He put up with the atmosphere until he found a good job. Most HR folks act as if they're above reproach.
Ed,
This is why our economy is in the tubes....Business does not understand basic human relations. Shame. Even convicted felons have the right to appeal their convictions and confront their accuser.... I am sorry you lost this gentleman in your workplace...
Name names. I want to know the names of the companies and the names of the managers.
No eating at your desk around here either....and if you don't like that....feel free to go work elsewhere.
Eating at your desk results in mice in the office and in the trash cans, mold and debris under the cubes, spills in the computer keyboards and just plain nastiness.
That's why we have a cafeteria and LUNCHROOM! With TV, nice chairs, tables, refrigerators, free coffee and soda, microwaves....
Or leave the building if you want.....
If you want to be nasty and eat in your cube or at your desk ....go eleswhere!
jello heads!
PS ...no flip flops either, no shorts, no T-Shirts, no visible face piercings...don't like it? Go eleswhere!
Get serfs with torches and pitchforks at your castle much? Just wondering...
Were the people in your office raised in a barn?? I eat at my cubicle almost every day and haven't had any spills, nastiness, mold, or mice. Perhaps because I eat properly and clean up after myself?
What do you do when no eating area is provided to employees. Not everyone can afford to eat out lunch everyday.
Commenteri - That's why his name is "Sloppy Joe."
You're assuming, of course, that there is a designated lunch room. Last three places I've worked did not have them and everyone ate at their desks. None of these places had mice, mold, or debris under the desks. Trash bundled up and dropped into the trash cans.
With those draconian rules, I can't believe you can find one single person willing to work for you. I'm guessing you're a hot-shot twentysomething without a clue....lol
The problem with 'managers' is that they want to 'manage' and most managers that I have met have low self-esteem..........do it MY way!!!!
It may be helpful to have the 'focus' on the quality and quanity of work completed in a competent manner and in a timely fashion. This has been my 'focus' for the past 26+ years in business..............you will surround yourself with good people who have good common sense :-)
I worked for someone like that -- it was absolutely miserable.
Go to the bathroom when you need to go, any job that limits how many times you can pee isn't worth having.. and whoever is coming up with the 15 minutes lost per bathroom trip needs to get a dose of reality. Takes me about 3 minutes to get up, walk to restroom, pee and walk back to desk. so that would be a grand total of about 15 to 20 minutes a day, big whoop.
ewww! add 20 seconds to wash your hands too please!
LOL, I have learned not to pee on my hands.
There are others that have not though and you are picking up their germs off of the surfaces you touch! Blech!
Chill out and don't worry... there is a bottle of anti-bacterial soap next to the sink, and I wash my hands after I use the bathroom. =) Then I use the paper towel I dried my hands with to open the door so I don't pick up cooties from those that didn't. Lastly, I toss the paper towel in the trash can.
...wrong reply
I work at a gym, and the ac is running constantly at about 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Usually the temperature works for my male coworkers, but the females freeze. We used to wear uniform black sweaters. Now we aren't allowed to wear sweaters because they "look unprofessional"; so we have heaters sitting two feet away from us on full blast. Those things burn. It's not awesome.