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Subscribe to RSSThe high cost of tuition has more people questioning whether it’s worth it to go to college, according to a new survey.
Nearly 57 percent of people think college is a good financial investment for young adults these days, according to the survey of 3,000 Americans, which was conducted by Rasmusson Reports on behalf of Country Financial.
That’s down sharply from just four years ago, when 81 percent of people saw college as a good investment. The figure has fallen every year since 2008, the year the financial crisis hit.
This year, about 24 percent said they did not think a higher education was worth the investment, while about 19 percent were unsure.
Women were slightly more likely than men to say college was a good investment despite the rising cost, according to the Country Financial Survey. These days, women also are more likely to go to college than men.
The survey also found that wealthier people were more likely to see college as a good investment than those who make less money.
On the other hand, Americans seem to have a higher tolerance for debt related to education, at least as compared to last year. For example, last year 61 percent of those survyed said $20,000 or less in student loan debt was too much. This year, just 50 percent thought $20,000 or less would be too much.
When it comes to who should foot the bill, the vast majority of respondents said parents should be responsible for at least part of their kids’ college tuition. The results were roughly the same as the previous two years.
The cost of both public and private college educations has been rising steadily for decades, even when adjusted for inflation, according to the Department of Education.
Meanwhile, some economists have recently started raising alarm bells about the nation’s ballooning student loan debt, which some say has surpassed $1 trillion.
Still, many also caution that if you want a good job in this economy – or perhaps any job at all - it really pays to have a college degree. The unemployment rate for college graduates was 4.1 percent in June, compared with 8.4 percent for those with just a high school degree.
Do you have a question about affording college? Join CNBC money guru Sharon Epperson at 9:30 a.m. ET Wednesday for a live chat on paying for college.
Related:
More college students trading dorm for home
The upside of not savings for your child’s college education
Leave a Comment:
With:
1) rampant outsourcing of jobs over the last 20 yrs and
2) exhorbitant tuition costs
the risks of getting a quality education is becoming greater than the reward.
Why spend $50K + and wonder if your "major" will be outsourced in 10 years and render your degree useless?
The only people who do not worry about "outsourcing"are the college administrators who have been ripping off the students for a generation with high tuition knowing that the govt will give out a student loan to anybody that "breathes".
People wouldn't have to go to college if high school would be worth its own salt like it used to be. It's a joke now. I used to tutor accounting at a community college and the kids that would come to me had no comprehension of algebra or grammar for that matter. They were baffled by the relationship (A*B=C so C/B=A)
College was supposed to be advanced knowledge for those who could afford it as a luxury. Then it was made too accessible and now everyone who has the time can attend. That destroyed its value. Not everyone needs a degree. We know that. But we keep feeding into it by attending because historically thats what the greatest goal was, to send your kids to college!
Don't have kids if you can't afford them. SIMPLE! Wrap it up boys. Pop those pills girls!
Blake, that....may be a little off topic. True dont have kids if you cant afford them. But we're talking about college being a sound investment. Teach your kids a trade that cant be outsourced like plumbing, welding, etc
Crisis
I think there is a lot of confusion about what Outsourcing really is. Outsourcing is buying a cheaper service or product to reduce the cost of doing business. This is a recognition that you can no longer compete with outside producers of the same product.
The number of jobs outsourced is not the bigger problem. After 2 - 3 years many of the outsourced jobs come back because the outsourcing in many cases is not as efficient or effective. Furthermore outsourcing some jobs means that the WHOLE COMPANY didn't leave the country.
The REAL problems are
1) the cost to manufacture and ship from the US to other countries is much more than building plants overseas to service foreign markets
2) the cost to manufacture and ship into the US is less than producing the same products here in the US.
Once these companies build overseas, they usually stay. This is because they can compete on a more even playing field with the competition AND they money DOES NOT COME BACK!
The Money does not come back because the profits were taxed at the 25-35% IF they bring the money into the US it will be subject to federal state and local taxes amounting to 39 - 60% of what they have. Would you do that. Do it and your stockholders will oust you from company!
D.B. Akron the problem with outsourcing is a company can pay Indians less than it even costs us to live! We cant compete with someone that will work for less than our rent bill! We would have to live in garbage cans to work for the wages that China and India ask. Thats not our fault! We dont set the rent prices, we dont set food prices, we dont set insurance prices, the market does. Its THEFT of jobs when outsourcing happens. The only people that promote outsourcing are the corrupt, and the ill-informed.
The problem with global trade is we have a difference in cost of living than most other countries. So by trading with them we arent bringing up their standard of living, were bringing ours DOWN! Thats what we're seeing.
thatguydownsouth - Paying Indians is just fine for me as most of my job the past few years has been fixing everything after it came back from India. I think we got more business fixing everything the Indians did wrong than we would have gotten if we did it from scratch...
lol Mike well there you go lol
College is ONLY a good investment if you plan to be self-sustaining or self-employed.
To invest in college if you plan a career with some company that you're not running is not worth it. The reason is because the risks are too high. You will face competition that may not be won -- this only benefits the employer. Salaries are shrinking, if employers want higher education, let them foot the bill for it. The tendency to not pay s__— is really high for people at any level.
Minorities have a different role however. Higher education and entrepreneurship is essential. Over 90% of blacks worked for or sought to work for whites in the 1700's, 1800's, 1900's and even now. Blacks in particular are too tied to the bottom end of white economics/last hired, first fired. Education with an application to incorporate will break this cycle. When white economy sinks, the black one won't crash so immediately-- very slowly to recover -- as it does now.
One thing that would actually bring minority economies up is solar power. It would remove white supremacist (think of the racist cowboys you think of as oil/coal men) run fossil fuels out of minority neighborhoods.
Did you really just go there?
College/technical training is only worth it if you study a field that has demand from future employers. Engineers, scientists, nursing, physician assistant, accountants, computer science, geology ( oil exploration) are solid college majors. As many have said, technical jobs such as welding, drilling, auto repair, HVAC installation and repair are just a few of those looking for workers with math and science aptitude.
Community colleges are a great way to save 10s of thousands on freshman and sophomore year.
Spending $100K on a communications degree from a so-so university is not worth it. Many compound the mistake by adding a law degree or MBA on top of a so so college degree, running up even more debt.
A very ugly fact is that fewer and fewer students are getting rigorous high school educations anymore. Many students graduate high school with reading, science and math skills at about the 9th grade level. These mediocre ( at best ) students will not succeed in the more demanding majors and gravitate towards communications, gender studies, and sociology degrees with little market value.
Another ugly fact is that college is not designed for everybody. The universities will accept almost anybody because it is all about money. But not too many years ago, the idea was a person needed an IQ of at least 105 to 110 to have the mental capacity to achieve a 4 year degree in a real major from a decent school. That's why historically only 30% of the population has a 4 year degree. That has increased somewhat as access has improved and standards have declined, but it is unlikely we will ever see 70% of the population with 4 year degrees.
Don't blindly assume that any 4 year degree is worth it. Have a plan and work towards it. Most people I read about with terrible levels of debt are those that did not have a solid plan and did not actively seek low cost options.
I went to college in the 70s, including grad school. Unfortunately my family didn't have the kind of money to pay tuition, but I could still go because there was a variety of financial aid available. And, of course, I worked...full time to pay my living expenses. In grad school, I got full tuition remission because I worked full time at the university library.
Without these programs, most of middle and lower class kids would not have been able to go to college at all. But somewhere along the way, college became a big business and colleges realized they could really make a lot of money from financial aid with all the risk falling on the student, their families, and federal govt. Soon, more and more banks got into the financial aid business, allowing kids to borrow ridiculous sums of money that they had no collateral for securing.
It's become a big racket and the quality of education at many of these schools is hardly worth the cost. With most people underemployed or unemployed, we have some highly educated people working as administrative assistants and at TJ Maxx than ever before. But take your car for repair and those guys get $200 an hour.
I worked in an industry that over the years was consolidated by leveraged buy outs so that numerous companies dwindled down to like 4 mega corporations. If I had had any idea that most college degrees would not be worth the amount of money paid to get them, I would have chosen a different course.
These college students and their families are being ripped off big time and they are totally without any kind of consumer protection to inform them of what's going on.
There is hardly any way for people to make informed choices when so many forces--including govt and elected officials--are arrayed against you.
as the middle class continues to shrink, and the number of working poor continues to grow, the number of college educated people will need to fall as well.
If the majority can't afford such things as doctors and lawyers there will be less demand for them.
Gary -- you have some very valid points.
Students are NOT prepared for college and that costs BIG TIME. I have a friend at a major D1 university. She works with incoming freshman and says that over 60 percent of them are taking at least ONE remedial class and about 40 percent are taking an entire semester of remedial classes ... sometimes more. That's the stuff they SHOULD have learned in high school. Now they are paying for it at college tuition rates and it doesn't even count toward graduation.
You are also correct in your notion that college isn't for everyone. I have a decent "professional" job, and I guarantee my plumber earns more than I do! Four years of college, especially for those not inclined for academics, is not only a waste of time ... it gets kids in debt AND often gives them a feeling of failure if they don't complete it. But we tend to preach COLLEGE is the cure for all!
the real question is, how many of the people asked were conservatives convinced that graduating college makes you an 'intellectual elite' or even a 'snob'.
And if you don't go to college (or some sort of post-secondary education), what are you going to do? There are only so many "do you want fries with that?" type of jobs.
I wonder how many have liberal art degrees were polled. Or how many people that received another useless degree that would change the results.
If you want Collage to mean anything get/develop the skills you need for your career
Its the same as healthcare, we are dumping ungodly amounts of money into it and what do we really have to show for it? Ranking way the hell down versus the rest of the world and paying more than any country on top of it. Education should be free, healthcare should be free.
What I see here is the Republican idea of bringing in people already educated from overseas, about ready to fall in on itself. The Republicans have always wanted for a long time to stop Government Education Loans. With all the outsourcing of jobs, which they like to do, pretty soon, no one will come here. Simply this, 1. don't educate anyone here. 2. Outsource all jobs. 3. No one comes here. 4. Republican Party Implodes or they shoot off their own foot. Ahhh, Republicanism you gotta love it.
a lot of good posts-college is no longer a good investment for many people for many reasons: wasting time & money on things that should have been learned in high school, the cost of text books (total racket) fees & fines:parking tickets, lab fees, printing costs (nickel and dimed to death), sports over academics and NO JOBS for graduates. I see college administrators make poor financial decisions every day-and WE THE PEOPLE pay & pay & pay........
College needs to be viewed as an investment towards a career that will be satisfying, in-line with one's aptitudes, and marketable. A major in arts & humanities is a guarantee you'll end up waitering for a living upon graduation, burdening your family for a place to live. Going for a medical, engineering, or computer degree are probably the best in this day & age. Otherwise, stay away from these ripoff institutions happy to part you from your money and find some other path- the debt is not worth it.
Pro-Freed:
Not true. My degrees were in arts and humanities and I made a good (not spectacular) living and retired at age 50.
dslsca- that was in yeterday's world. Today, everything has changed and it doesn't make sense to get a degree in art history with a minor in basket weaving if you want a job.
you do not need higher education to be successful though it does help and sometimes hurt. you need a life plan, a dream, a goal, open thought, creativity, drive, ambition, gumption, determination and a whole lots of other words that can propel you without the need for higher education. there are countless stories about people with little to no education becoming successful in life and those stories should never be restricted by government influence or societal demands.
i am an individual, not part of some collective that forces the world to do what it deems best regardless of the outcome. i build my own roads to lead me where i need to go.
The dumbing down of America in full swing... Make education unaffordable.
I graduated with a BS in Psychology in 2009. I always did well academically. 4.0 student up through high school and made the college honor roll several times.
This being said, I hated school and was easily burned out. I realized that half of everything I was ever taught would be forgotten or the material was such that I would never need to apply it. A college adviser tried to sell me on the amount of electives students are required to take as part of "well-roundness". I never could buy into that notion, being that I felt that had already been achieved back in grade school. The truth is that it's all about $$$.
I currently work as a kitchen aid at $9.50/hr. My federal student loans have been deferred for some time. I don't know how I'll ever pay them back because as of yet, I've never worked for more than $12.50/hr. Such wages might have been great 20 years ago, but today it barely pays the bills (I own next to nothing.. and I sold my vehicle recently).
Just as most parents want college for their children, mine decided to send me off to a university. I had no concrete plans for college at that point in time and absolutely no idea what I wanted to do for a career. But off I went anyways as they decided to take out a loan to pay for my first year (it didn't help that I had a good friend that needed a roommate in the dorms). I was responsible for the rest. I should have stopped after that first year..
The costs are tremendous, yes, but that's not the entire issue. As some have already pointed out, times have changed. A college degree doesn't automatically land you a great job anymore.. and there is no safety net. We live in a service economy. Those jobs our grandparents had at the local factory making widgets no longer exist in this country. Today, if you have an undesirable 4 year degree (like mine), you must make a living waiting tables, flipping burgers, or moving boxes. Social work is a possibility, maybe (at around $10/hr). Basically, if you're not an engineer, pharmacist, nurse, or otherwise brilliant mathematician, you're like me - stuck in a dead end job.
Parents should be confident that their kids have a plan before pushing them into "higher" education. Make sure that they are actually learning transferable skills in a field that is in demand - and applying them constantly (college job, internship, volunteer work, etc.) Oh, and make sure they don't have any outstanding mental health issues.. those can really suck.
Social networking couldn't hurt either. You're not going to get very far unless you build contacts. Make a name for yourself while you're still in school.. or else. You know that old saying.. it's not always what you know, but WHO you know.
Ah! Most of us who are saying that COLLEGE isn't the be all, end all are NOT advocating no post secondary education. On the contrary. Post secondary education is essential toward making a decent living. It doesn't, however, need to be a traditional four-year college/university. It can range from a registered apprenticeship program to what used to be known as "vocational" or "trade school". Some of this type of training can even begin in high school (and should). However, with our national phobia against "tracking" students and the almost universal mandate of "college", these programs are few and far between.
You make a good point here, because of all the 'better' jobs we used to have that were completely dependant upon those decent paying factory jobs that just don't exist anymore. People making $9/hr are not going to go buy a new car, they are not going to go buy a house, they are not going to buy anything but food and housing and probably can't even afford that without public assistance. Now factor in an entire generation that is spooked and has been told all their lives that college is the ticket out of lifelong poverty, of course they are going to spend whatever it costs for that chance whether it be $10,000 or $1,000,000,000. Add in loans that are super easy to get and non dischargable and you have created a large swath of society who is stuck in poor jobs and even if they got a better one are still screwed for life. Student loans follow you around for up to 30 years, most working adults entire lifetime work history is 40 years. This sucks up money that could and should be going towards marriage, housing, cars, retirement, and dozens of other things vital for someone to start a family and stable independent life. College should be completely free, and so should health care. How many millions of us must be thrown under the bus into lifelong poverty for these basic needs every other civilized country in the world has recognized as a vital piece of a functioning society?
This country is enveloped in greed, There is nothing of value left. Where's the beef?
That's short-sighted thinking. In the future, the wealth gap will be between those with college education and those without. Science background will be the most important. The importance of liberal arts is waning and arguably becoming irrelevant. Since most manufacturing these days is done with the assistance of computers and/or robots, people with computer skills or engineering skills will become more valuable from a programming and project management basis. Unskilled labor will become less important. The truth is everything we do is becoming more technically complex. Cars no long contain Chevy small blocks. Even today's Chevy small blocks are much more complex and require a greater mechanical understanding. Conservatives are pushing the idea that college is only for elites and the focus for "regular" people should be some form of technical training. Last time I checked that is almost as costly and primarily paid for by student loans. The idea that college isn' worthwhile only perpetuates the income and social gap. Those whose parents are wealthy enough to pay will go and reap the benefits and those from poor families will not and will be entrenched in a lower socioeconomic strata. I know conservatives push the idea of the American dream, but without education it is virtually unattainable. An uneducated person will have difficulty running a successful small business, especially one that is large enough to create jobs for others. What is necessary is cost controls for education, but with the push for privatizing and for profit colleges that will not happen. What will continue is for profits taking student loan money and then kids hitting the streets without degrees when the burden of their debt becomes too great. That will be the reality unless it is stopped.
No...in the future the wealth gap will be those with government pensions and those without.
Green has a very good point. Without some advanced education beyond high school it relegates the majority to flipping burgers and digging ditches. if you are lucky enough to get that work. Trade schools definately are an option if you choose a practical course, like medical technician,plumbing, electrical and HVAC,. The age of going to college and taking subjects like English literature, American history modern dance etc , courses that don't have a practical application, is over. Students have to learn to budget their school loan money wisely to prepare for a career that will advance themselves in this competive world. Science, medicine, engineering, electronics, those careers are worth sacrificing for. If that means no fraternities,fancy cars or any other any unnecessary expendature that takes their attention and the money away from the goal of getting that degree that's what they have to do. Only the wealthy kids can go to college, spend like drunks with new cars, best living quarters and frat parties, the rest of us have to stand back, get practical and plan for a better future, even if it means being frugal and getting a part time job. The more of that student loan money you don't spend foolishly is the less you have to pay back. This country NEEDS an educated middle class, we don't need to import foreigners to take the best jobs...it's already happening.
Life is about exploiting OPPORTUNITY....PERIOD!
Those with a College Education have more OPPORTUNITY....PERIOD!
To sit here and say "GreenFinger" that conservatives push one thing or another in some biased fashion is plain STUPID!
And, you do not have to take out LOANS to get a College degree, people have been and will continue to work their way through school.
I PITY THE FOOL who thinks they will have MORE OPPORTUNITY without a College Degree. There are very, very few that are successful without one. It happens, but less likely.
Oh and don't forget, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE, DOES NOT GUARANTEE YOU ANYTHING. YOU STILL HAVE TO WORK HARD TO SUCCEED.
Though from the sound of some of you Libby's, you would think that just because you have a college degree, then you should make as much as the CEO when you graduate.
I pretty much agree with your statement until the one about the libbys..it's somewhat true but I see the same number of conservatives and indies with an entitlement mentaility as I do libbys...
BTW the worst are military retirees who come into your business and think they should be in charge because they somehow waited out their service until retirement...I hear a lot of these guys claim to be 'connies'...
there are countless stories throughout time of successful people with little to no education before becoming successful. you choose your own path, dont let people force you into something because all they see is doom and gloom without higher education.
Rick-546746 the worst are people like you who use this board as an opportunity to bash our retired military. i would agree with you if you didnt just blanket the whole retired force, maybe you could of used 'some' in your remark. in any case the comment was uncalled for in relation to this story and as former military i take offense.
Mounting Numbers of students are leaving school with 120,000 - 200,000 with the prospects of getting a $40,000 - $50,000 per year job maximum. That is not a good investments and people kind of figure that out.
The problem is that since I went to school, the Fed has pretty much uncapped borrowing limits and expanded what students can get for loans.
Colleges in turn spend, spend, spend on premium facilities for study, housing, and recreation for the students to lure them to their school. Why? Because the students can get the money from the government, so even if state and local funding is cut, the college still can get the money it wants, not needs.
Good luck getting that genie back in the bottle!
Let's say you graduate with a job paying 50k, and student loan debt of 200k (ridiculous, but let's go with it).
The average minimum wage job will get you 25k.
You'll have that student loan debt paid off in 8-12 years, by which time your salary will be upwards of 65k. The average wager will probably still be around 28k at that time.
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to do the math. Why do you think the article points out that wealthier people view college as a good investment?
Your numbers are off a bit. Minimum wage full time pays about 15k a year. But its not that rediculous to quote a 200k student loan with a starting salary of 50k. Thats the case for most Med students and lawyers. But you're right, I went to college and work in accounting for 50k a year. My brother in law didnt go to college and brags that he makes 35k. The difference (not even counting the generous benefits that I have and he doesnt) is that if I play my cards right and get the proper certifications I will be making 6 figures easily in 10 years. He will not.
If financial success is your goal, then the key is not only getting a degree, but getting the right type of degree.
Too many students are getting worthless liberal arts degrees instead of science and engineering degrees. You pay a 100k for that BA or a 100k for a BSEE. The BSEE gets a starting salary of 80K and the guy with a BA stands in a window and says "you want fries with that?". There are too many people with BA degrees, most are arrogant and think they know everything, but they just can't command high salary jobs, especially with high starting salaries.
I was so glad my former college raised tuition after spending thousands on creating a new pretty entrance way for visitors.
Those are separate issues. Look into the beurocracy at the financial level that colleges operate. They are given grants that can ONLY be used for construction/capital projects. Then they are given funds/grants that may ONLY be used for wages/expenses. Its stupid. They can have a severe deficit for wages/salaries yet have billions in the construction fund. But the two may NOT be mixed.
It depends on the school and the degree. Going to a for-profit school like Baker College or Phoenix University is a joke. Also, there is nothing wrong with a liberal arts degree as long as you don't borrow money for it and don't expect to make any money with it, otherwise STEM degrees are the best way to go. The trade school route is also a valuable alternative. Finally, Students today need to do all they can to keep their borrowing to a minimum (i.e. don't take out the maximum you can, just the maximum you need - even a part time job can cover some costs; ask homeowners who bought the most expensive house their bank would finance if they would do that again).
I know it takes a little luck but I did/do very well without college. Im only 6 years away from early retirement !
Got a few certs and wallahhhh.
Certs = Bingo! Other than the early retirement, I've done the same. The certs are way too expensive too...
Soap, good for you, but that was then, this is now. Us older guys got in while things were different. High school degree is hardly anything except to prove a kid could finish that. Now many times even an undergrad degree isn't enough, you have to have a masters.
Soap: good for you...I'm sure that you worked very hard to get to the place that allows you to retire...and by the way...it's "viola"...just so you know. I took some French classes in college.
Actually, it's "voilà", "viola" is an instrument from the violin family.
College is now not only not affordable but it's not worth it because there is no learning taking place. The community college where I used to go wouldn't even make a good high school now. The standards have plummeted even though the cost keeps rising.
True enough - most bachelor's degrees have now been dumbed-down to the the point that college is only an exercise in B.S. tolerance (and that is not Bachelor of Science.) Put up with the hassles for 4 or 5 years, regurgitate a few facts, and go to commencement. Pay 6-times the reasonable price for textbooks each semester (written by the department head and replaced with a new edition at least once a year, for subjects that have not changed in 40 years.)
A college degree never was a good financial investment - that was mostly propaganda from the university-industrial complex. I finished my BSET after several years of night classes while working full time. It was purely for accomplishing a personal goal - no requirement for my job, and the promotions into management never required the degree either. Learning is good for learning's sake, and it is a very good feeling to finish what one begins. But don't consider it as a path to financial reward - it is a personal accomplishment and a chance to meet some nice people in classes. That's it.
Traditional colleges today are obsolete for the same reason encyclopedias are. They failed to keep up with the times. Colleges and universities are profit-making enterprises that perpetuate the myth you need a degree to get a better job. Instead of improving the learning experience for students, they stuck to old teaching methods that haven't changed in over 500 years. Even worse, classes are taught by grad students or elderly professors who fall asleep in the middle of their lectures. $150,000 for a B.A. so you can sit in a cube doing telemarketing for almost minimum wage? Please. Invest that money in a decent 401k or IRA and you can earn $18k+ annually. Start your own business. Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, and Mark Zuckerberg are college dropouts.
If you want to learn about anything (and I mean ANYTHING) - you can do an online search on the subject, get the textbook for free from your local library, watch a lecture on YouTube, even use social media to locate a subject matter expert or start an online chat group. Education, like software, should be open-source and interactive. It belongs to the people, not greedy, elitist academic robber barons earning 6 or 7 figure incomes from overpriced tuition fees. Some day, if someone hasn't thought of it already, there will be Wiki-Colleges where we can learn and develop education on our terms.
Just try telling a potential employer that you got your education online and didn't need that dumb ole college with the sleepy professors who are behnd the times. They still want that piece of paper that says you GRADUATED from that dumb ole college. People like Gates, Zuckerberg, or Ellison are few and far, geniuses that had the right idea at the right time. Sure, the internet is a font of information, it can help you while you GO TO COLLEGE!
Keep in mind that Gates, Zuckerberg started at Harvard and with parental backing (Gates) started Microsoft. Even Michael Dell knew the value of an education, going to the University of Texas but dropping out. Not everyone has the good fortune or timing to start a business and college is a good way to meet contacts and learn about the business world. College still plays an important role in our society and encouraging our young people to go is still the best investment we can make in our youth and our country.
Chaz...I agree with you a 100%. As Matt Damon's character in "Good Will Hunting" told the elitist Harvard jerk, "you just dropped $$$ Grand on an education you could have gotten at your local library for $60 in late fees." It's the Information Age...if you want information on anything it is readily available on the internet, but you have to have the discipline to look for it and to be self-motivated in your studies. I remember my years and years in university...I used to always wonder, "Why do we pay so much for these classes? The professors are essentially just reading from the same book they told us to read from....spoon feeding those who are too lazy or not motivated enough to read the material themselves." One thing I have to say (coming from my experience as a professor) is most of the money students pay in tuition goes to administrators. Lot of professors out there only make about $50-75K.
AmericanPauper, you're right about the salary for professors and I stand corrected. I was shocked when a PhD from Northwestern told me she makes $75k.
Jeanne, ProudAmerican - I don't disagree with you (whoops, double negative). My point is academia has not kept up with advances in technology that clearly could make education more accessible and affordable for everyone. By perpetuating an antiquated system that's long overdue for an overhaul, we fall further behind other countries. How many Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerbergs do we lose by making higher education unobtainable?
AmericanPauper: the problem is that the library books can't engage you, make you think on your feet, evaluate your arguments or skills, correct your math or grammar errors, teach you how to work with other people, etc.
dslsca - Yes, they can, if you read the right books.
Parents shouldn't bankrupt themselves or spend money that should be going towards retirement, but they should do what they can to help their kids. I hear about so many parents taking on loans and having no retirement savings. Yes, it's great you want to help your kids and not saddle them with debt, but perhaps Johnny and Suzy should look for cheaper schools and take some of the debt themselves so you can retire and not have to work for the rest of your life. Social Security is not a retirement plan - it's a supplement to your retirement income.
the biggest thing I hate about these surveys is that it always seems to be college or just a HS diploma. There are plenty of people who make a great living with a trade such as electrician, plumber, beautician, auto mechanic, etc. There is a third choice. Not everyone belongs in a book learning college. Some folks are meant to work with their hands. These are the folks that keep our world running and are very important and deserve some due. Let's add the trade school grads into the mix when evaluating the merit of higher education. So many kids being pushed into college who spend 6 years and rack up $40k or more in debt and don't get their degree would have been better off taking a year or two and $12k to learn a trade.
Your so right they have loans for collage but they don't have loans for retirement.
Collage is still worth it nut you have to understand you need to develop your skills when your leaning and careful of your debt level you don't have more loan debt they your first year of pay in the work force. The fact is Collage educated had to lowest unemployment in the country. My older brother just finished his teaching degree and for his first job he will be the Vic principle for a school.
I have my Automotive degree which is worthless but the basic knowledge allowed me to develop my skills. I can now get a job anywhere in the country at any time. I have my ASE's which are also worthless but that is what employers want because the customers are scammed in thinking they mean anything. I work at Volkswagen and they don't care if you have ASE's they just want to know if you can do the work I keep My ASE's up to date in-case I work for someone else out of the Volkswagen/Audi line.
A lack of jobs is going to drive more and more people to be auto mechanics or into other blue collar trades.
Guess what? That's going to exert downward pressure on your wages.
Global Economy = Global Standard of Living. Our standard of living is not competitive in a global economy and will decline until it is.
A lot of people are thinking, "Well, I'm safe. MY job can't be offshored". WRONG. YOUR standard of living will decline along with everyone else's.
They are welcome to try. there is a reason the average career of an auto technician is 7-13 years.
That is what they said when 1 out of 5 dealers closed. but there is still a very high demand for us.
That all depends on your standered of living is we are frugal so that will not change.
shorter school/apprentiship programs and faster payoffs working in the trades
everyone cant be the boss/manager and forget leader, they dont teach that in any school
Let's flood the trade schools with all the unemployed.
Watch your wages drop like a rock.
We need more jobs. We can't just shift EVERYONE into the jobs that are still left.
Hasn't happened yet. Nurses have been short handed for 20 years and they still are.
Hasn't Obama been saying for four years that every kid deserves and needs a college education? More evidence of Obama's dwindling persuasive power and that parents and students are no longer fainting at his presence. Doesn't help much that students who voted for him are now living with mom and dad after graduating from college because of the Obama economy.
Actually what the president said was that our young adults need to be able to go to college or get vocational training in order to get a good job. What part of that do you disagree with?
BTW,
First of all, a college education means absolutely nothing if the degree is in anything other than business, engineering or sciences leading to a more specific fields such as medicine, pharmacist, etc. Liberal arts and social studies are what most students graduate from and they are totally a waste of time and money. Vocational training is fine, but one can get ahead just as fast by taking an entry level job and work his or her way up, making money while doing it. The military is another great source of training and free education. Of course, military-loathing liberals would never recommend that.
That you can get a job with him in office.
Were it not for my training in the Marines, I wouldn't be able to take the path that has led me to where I am today.
Road Warrior, What I've seen is that many businesses will hire a person who has a college degree for literally anything for a position they have no business being in, and no previous background/training/experience doing, and make them a manager of a department over someone who has no degree but years of experience. Somehow, the degree began to translate to "management" qualifier. It usually ends up that the "manager" was hired into or promoted up to their highest level of incompetence.
Road Warrier, funny you bash on liberals but yet laud the military for providing "free" training and education.
It's not free for the taxpayer!
Apprentiships in welding , pipefitting, electricians etc is where the jobs are and they pay very well and you are earning a wage while doing the aprrentiship.
There aren't enough of those jobs to make a big difference, and most of those jobs depend on the construction industry. I know union plumbers and pipefitters that haven't worked, or worked only sporadically for years.
Global Economy = Global Standard of Living
Our standard of living is not competitive in a global economy and will decline until it is. The markets work
This is what a "service economy" looks like. It's working just like it's supposed to.
Get used to it.
Those are all union jobs btw, along with all those defense jobs that Republicans are afraid of losing. The Republicans told me that was socialism.
Come to Alberta they are fast tracking the system to let American workers work. Alberta needs thousands of skilled workers. They are importing them from all over the world now. And the money is great. Most of the workers in the oil bus. make over 100k a year
To every student, I ask: What do you want to study?
I always hear: Duh, I don't know yet....
Find out what you want to study. Look at the job projections four years into the
future to see if you will be able to find a job once you graduate.
Don't get into a field of study because it sounds like fun!
Cost and prestige may not be all that is cracked up to be.
I could have qualified for MIT years ago. Did not have the money.
Went to local state university. 26 years later, I am doing fine. I doubt things would be better if I attended MIT.
My dad and I argue about this. I think kids need to be pushed by their parents into a field, like telling your kids to go to Med School. My parents did the opposite. They chose the hippy like mentality of "let him pick something he likes and hell love his life more." Guess what. I had NO IDEA what I wanted to do yet was forced into college. So I like many others failed college the first attempt cause I didnt have ambition. Many kids just get random degrees because they also are forced to attend but arent pushed in any direction. People as a species need direction. If my parents would have pushed me towards a career and required more out of me from the get go then I know for a fact that I would have been more successful my first go around in college.
I would add too many students decide to major in something they enjoy learning about. They don't think about will they enjoy doing the job they are qualified for after learning for 4-6 years.
I agree with 'thatguydownsouth' to a certain degree. Mind you, when I went
to college, it was for the second time! By then, I was 28, had been a construction supervisor and a draftsman.
At that stage in life, I knew what I wanted.
True SRK. My second attempt was in accounting after I worked at a personal training facility and saw how successful and happy those guys were. I point you to the ever so stereotyped Asian community. They hve strict discipline over their children and push them into high earning degrees. And it works...
My second try at college was after some factory work (back in the day when those jobs existed) and then 4 years in the Navy. The motivation was much better the second time, on my own with some VA benefits. The technology route seemed more practical than the first try at engineering. I finished the 3 years in about 6 years of night /weekend classes (at age 33).
Lots of 18-year-old kids don't know what they want - a stretch in the military is not bad for motivation and direction.
The fundamental problem is that colleges and universities are spending large sums on activities other than educating the students. However, the costs get built into their government subsidies and tuition.
It's time to re-focus on providing a top notch education at a reasonable cost.
Another cost efficient product brought to you by the left!
The "left" brought us college? Where did you go to college and how did you escape being brainwashed into communism by your Algebra professor?
I joined the military and then worked my way into starting my own business. That is how I avoided the brainwashing.
You are questioning whether our education is a leftist organization. You have to be the only one.
Based on the way people vote in our country I agree that education is a leftist organization.
And lbf- if you were in the military you certainly did not avoid being brainwashed.
lving...so, you got brainwashed by the military. All the universities I graduated from were controlled by conservative fascists (W& M and UVA); nothing liberal about either one of those schools.
"education is a leftist organization"
Please provide some evidence of that. You seem to know a lot about college for someone who didn't attend.
I went to college. Where are all the leftists? Where is all the brainwashing taking place? Most people take 2 or 3 semesters of history and some civics/government class. It's hard to be converted to socialism in an accounting class or a data structures class.
You don't know what you're talking about.
For 29 years I was first a college professor and then a Dean. I can assure you from ample firsthand experience that the faculty, staff, and students at the three large state universities where I worked embodied the full range of political/economic views from ultra-conservative to wildly liberal. I saw no bias to one side or the other.
People are starting to get clued in that college pedigrees do not matter. Employers want to know how you can benefit their companies and really don't care where you got your education.
They won't even look at your resume if you don't have a degree.
correct, you can apply for many "entry" level jobs $8-$10/ hr even, and unless you have some sort of higher education they put your resume in the circular file, and forget the trades if you go to college and then apply for any job that requires you to work with your hands they wont even call you back because now you are "over qualified" since you went to school they don't figure you can turn a wrench, even if you want to, its a catch 22..
Companies that shut their doors before they are opened based on a college diploma are simply cutting off their opportunities based on bad advice from someone in HR. Likely someone with thier nose stuck in the air based on their education.
That is full of B.S. it is not about being "over qualified" it is about whether you have the skills. For example I have my Automotive degree which is worthless but the basic knowledge allowed me to develop my skills. I can now get a job anywhere in the country at any time. I have my ASE's which are also worthless but that is what employers want because the customers are scammed in thinking they mean anything. I work at Volkswagen and they don't care if you have ASE's they just want to know if you can do the work. I keep My ASE's up to date in-case I work for someone else out of the Volkswagen/Audi line. After 5 years of working I can get a job any where in the country at any time now that I'm at ten years it is even easier. The more years of experience the more value you are. That is one reason it take me a few hours to find a job.
Haven't you found out if you apply to one of those jobs you don't give them a resume it is called customising yourself to the job your after.
Future employment requires you know how to do something the other guy wants to pay you for. This pretty well eliminates, Poily Sci, art history, sports movement technology and all the jobs that only serve the top 2% of society. Those folks don't need all of us in those jobs. So you need a middle class to do 2 things - 1. learn how to do something useful to the rest of the middle class and 2. spend your paycheck supporting other people in the middle class who support you ! Out sourcing works best when American Middle Class buys the stuff being imported. I call it cannabalizing each other. Each smart shopper out there takes their made in America paycheck drives their imported Hyundai to W**Mart and loads it with stuff from China/Korea. Later when they get their pink slip they feel betrayed and wonder how things got so awful in the good ol USA. Learn how to do something useful and support a fellow American and you'll be fine. May not get rich, but you'll do OK. Keep up the cannibalizing and it just gets worse for everyone.
You act like there is an alternative to buying foreign products. There's not. We don't make stuff anymore. If the Republicans had their way, we wouldn't even make cars in this country.
The "elites" determined that "outsourcing is good for America", and "we have a service economy now".
Do we still export? Sure. Fighter Jets and heavy earth moving equipment. Not enough jobs in that.
Sam, what is outsourcing?
Giving jobs to people other than our citizens.
The current administration not enforcing our immigration laws does what?
Gives jobs to people other than our citizens.
So are you for it or against it?
Sam: fight it all you want. You'll be filing claims against your fellow Americans. But notice: some employers are pulling jobs back from China to the US because of quality control. GEt your self ready to support your fellow Americans. It's a mental thing. You got to want it.
I'm not fighting it. It's inevitable.
Global Economy = Global Standard of Living.
our standard of living is not competitive in a global economy and will decline until it is. The markets work
Your job may not be subject to offshoring, but your standard of living will decline along with those who are.
OK you win Sam. Keep buying Chinese and Korean stuff. Just don't be crying about how small your UC check is and how fast they cut it off.
There was a time when college was intended to advance a students education and better prepare them for a promising career. Now, there are way too many kids who attend college and do not have the basic skills that an 8th grader use to have. Reading, writing and arithmetic has gone out the window. There is a large population in our colleges of students who can barely read. The more elite schools are the ones where truly "bright" students excel. And, for the most part...the graduates of these schools are the ones landing the most promising jobs. Makes sense doesn't it? So, if your kid is a step above that of an idiot in high school...chances are...he or she will not succeed at the college level. Stop wasting your money....and stop wasting my tax dollars to support these so called "grants"!
Parents who know it is their responsibility to help their children pay for a good education are more responsible about the number of kids they have.
But, most kids who pursue a liberal arts education are wasting their time and money. Too many kids pursue it because they know it is a relatively easy course of study - only to find out they can not earn a decent living afterward, due to an over-supply of graduates. Those who work harder to earn a degree in science, math, or engineering can earn more and know their education was worthwhile.
That's the solution. We'll graduate millions of mathemticians and engineers and they'll all be unemployed because Indians and Chinese do it cheaper.
It's about cost, not education.
sam,
You are saying since foreigners will work cheaper, it's a waste of time to get an engineering degree? I don't know of too many poor engineers. Not rich maybe, but a very comfortable living.
So.. add a few more milllion engineers to the labor pool and see how comfortable they are then.
sam,
Don't worry. It takes way too much work for most kids to get into engineering. Most just want to have a good time on someone else's dime.
Sam, my boss is an engineer. He took 6 different Calculas classes to get his degree. I don't see a great number of American college students being able to do that, seeing as how so many of them can't grasp algebra. I work at a University (a small state school), and many of our students have to take remedial math.
However, almost every student in our economic department is from Shanghai.
72% of College Graduates do not work in their field they have a degree in.
But hey lets forgive their debt right and add that to the debt load of the country and the working class or whats left of it.
Outsourcing you can thank the NAFTA and CAFTA programs for that. Unions should have fought that tooth and nail. They didn't.
America cannot compete with services and goods produced (regardless of degree's under the belt) that pay or charge 1/3 of what is paid or charged for in the USA. It just cannot compete with that.
Its cost me .03 a minute to call America from overseas in SE Asia, it cost my family 7 USD a minute to call me. The US Government was ready for NAFTA, CAFTA as those in office were invested in those companies that moved (think cronyism). The citizens were screwed right there.
Education is a great thing, being politically responsible is another, actually that's non-existent. None of them are responsible right? Its the taxpayers fault they spent all the government program money on other promises so they could get re-elected. Then screw you on those promises and point the finger at the other party doing exactly the same thing.
The cycle will only be broken by removing them all from office...
That is useless statistic what degrees are they? what was the students GPA. My brother had an easy time getting a job it wasn't a teaching job which is what his degree is he got the job he wanted a Vic Principal job.
Many of us don't have jobs in fields directly related to our college degrees. That isn't to say the college education didn't prepare the student for any of a number of career paths. For example, my degree, in a dual major of economics and political science, prepared me well for a career in financial services, even though a degree wasn't even a prerequisite for employment in my first position. I later earned my MBA while attending classes at night; it wasn't required, but I remain convinced it enhanced my career, which included ownership of several of my own businesses.
I just read an article about how hard it is for generation Y to find jobs and how much trouble they are in compared to their parents. The first paragraph sums up the problem:
"They are perhaps the best-educated generation ever, but they can't find jobs. Many face staggering college loans and have moved back in with their parents. Even worse, their difficulty in getting careers launched could set them back financially for years."
Entire population is awash in debt! That is the problem. Current debt levels are still huge compared to GDP. History shows debt to GDP ratio will snap back to the mean. Google for DEFLATIONARY CRASH to understand the problem. The end will come suddenly.
Whatever you do, do not get into excessive debt for your education or car or house or business. It can get very hard to pay it back.