I said before and I will say it again; boomers are the most selfish, narcissistic, "what's in it for me" group of people that America has ever produced.

They reject traditions of the past and mortgage the future all in vanity.

This is my opinion and realize that I am using a large brush to cover a large group. But I stand by my statements as generalizations. There will be individual examples that will buck the trend.

These are really surprisingly high numbers, and the margins between them are really wide at each and every step! Certainly well outside the margin-of-error for one to say it's not statistically insignificant!

This comes as not too much of a shock for me. Look at the morons bleating about government spending (when it isn't directly for their benefit). Even the "budget-hawks" are in on the gag...let's fudge with the payouts for social security and medicare so that we screw the younger generations, but still get to bribe the Boomers with the lavish payouts and young retirement age.

Just the way this country is being managed is atrocious! Thanks to this lopsided generation outnumbering the rest almost 3:1, every public commitment, policy, investment is going towards supporting these people who've done practically nothing to prepare for retirement!

FYI, retirement isn't when you FEEL LIKE YOU ARE DONE WORKING...retirement is when you CAN NO LONGER SUPPORT YOURSELF THROUGH TOIL

The Boomers I guess think (or thought) that they would just be able to work until one day they just die...sorry, life ain't that easy unless you're on the savannah or polar regions. We can't just depend on some hungry lion to nab you one evening or just push you out onto an ice-flow when you can no longer hunt seal or care for the young...NO! We're going to spend at least $150K to $300K+ on each of you within the last year of your life trying to keep you alive...and the best you'll have is being in a drugged out stupor like in your youth except you wont be having nearly as much sex and you'll be messing yourself A LOT more.

It is not news that the Baby Boomers are scum. The only tragedy here is that these nice people are likely going to be taking care of Baby Boomers.

Baby Boomers destroyed the USA. Growing up in the 70's, even in a comfy middle-class burb, the "Liberated" Boomer parents were the most selfish and immature people that can be imagined. Having all the s3x, doing all the dope, and leaving everyone holding the bag. The spread hep and a dozen STDs, and when they got older they did us the favor of blossoming the AIDS infestation. They completely destroyed the cohesiveness of the family unit, with 60%+ of them all being divorced by the late 80's. This turned myself, and most of my friends, into staunch conservatives. Both of my parents de-evolved from the 70's forward, like most of their peers; one of my parents lives in a depressing trailer park, and the other died before 70yo due to refusal to grow up. Hippies should be ashamed of themselves.

I agree with all of you guys, boomers are by far the most selfish and the most likely to try to force their opininios on others. On top of that they for the most part act like someone younger couldn't possibly have a better skillset. pppfffft. I'll be glad when they're all dead.

Whaaa, whaaa, whaaa, my rich boomer parents won't give me all their money!!! All of this reaction to one of the most stupid pieces of "research" I've seen in ages. All you youngin's reacting as though what 600 boomers with more than 3 MILLION in assets do is somehow representative of an entire generation. Apparently us boomers raised y'all to be dumb.

Seriously - has anything you have ever done or anything that has happened to you actually been your fault; or have your boomer parents convinced you that all the bad things that happen to you are someone else's fault. Here's the serious lack of thought and logic to your "reasoning"... In some posts you whine because we want to retire while we're still healthy enough to enjoy it for a couple of years, in some posts you whine because we won't retire (or die) and give you our jobs. In other posts you whine because we might need long term care and you'll have to spend money taking care of us. What exactly is it that you want other than to feel better about yourself?

Brandon - my one satisfaction is knowing that someday you will be the old fogie and the generation after you will want all of you to die as much as you want us to die.

Morton we're not all scum just like everyone from your generation is not overindulged, coddled, lazy and in constant need of having your self-esteem reinforced.

@ joemike404

LOL

ok, here goes

has anything you have ever done or anything that has happened to you actually been your fault

Absolutely

or have your boomer parents convinced you that all the bad things that happen to you are someone else's fault.

Nope, quite a bit of it is simply tracking federal policy and Fed actions. My folks just cynically laugh every time more tax cuts get voted on as we spend billions to subsidize oil companies to explore and use the US 5th fleet to secure their profits.

Anyway, we're spending vast sums of money on things that yield a dearth of long-term returns. But at least we've got awesomely new and creative ways of tracking/killing people. I feel freer already!

In some posts you whine because we want to retire while we're still healthy enough to enjoy it for a couple of years, in some posts you whine because we won't retire (or die) and give you our jobs.

Yes, but you missed the context. If you have the money to retire while you are healthy and without humping the public dole to do so...by all means, GTFO of that 6-figure job you've been Bogarting you damned dirty ape [insert cliche] and spend your money in some American tourist trap to enrich a local economy...just make sure that you vote for policies that will make this nation great, not simply policies that sell everyone else out for your momentary benefit.

However, if you're log-jamming your job because you never bothered to save enough to live on after you can no longer work and didn't diversify adequately for dips in the market, don't start voting to change public benefits-payouts for your age-range to compensate for such short-comings. My gripe is with the fact that THAT is exactly what is happening right now...look no further than the Ryan plan's goal of gutting SSI and Medicare for the younger generations to pay for yours...do you think that Boomers were spared the axe by coincidence...GOP wants the blue-hair vote (just like the DNC)!

In other posts you whine because we might need long term care and you'll have to spend money taking care of us.

This is an inevitability, and the problem that I have with it is not that I and every other taxpayer will have to pay for your care, but that your generation has voted for politicians that procedurally raided the fund that was going to be used to care for your sickly carcass when you needed it. Instead there are a bunch of IOU's in place of where there should be money...and now that you need it, your generation will likely vote to increase the pay-in requirement while reducing the payouts for all subsequent generations until you start helping daisies grow.

What exactly is it that you want other than to feel better about yourself?

Are you kidding? I feel great!

What I want are sound fiscal and social (and international) policies coming out of the federal government and the monetary discipline from the Fed. It sickens me that we spend billions propping up failed businesses that should have been broken apart by the FTC at least 10years ago. It's repugnant that tax cuts and deficit spending is now an acceptable form of governing...or lack thereof. It's shameful that we cut funding to education and boost funding to prisons. It's abhorrent that an established, massive political party dedicates its directives to the oppression and segregation of minorities and blurring the lines of separation of church and state for easy votes from morons while raiding the public coffers for the benefit of multinational corporations while simultaneously the other party patronizes minorities and the incompetent with false/unrealistic promises of public support and does just as much to raid the public coffers for multinational corporations.

THIS is the country we have today. THESE politicians aren't in office by accident, and I can count the number of presidential elections I voted in with two fingers...so where should I look to find out why these crooks and cowards hold public office and the fate of our nation?

@ Brian-1075075

Hi Brian. Do you know how much colleges were being subsidized by state and federal governments back when you were in school? Do you think it's possible to support yourself through college working in fast-food or strictly with a highschool diploma these days? Did you support your kids through college out of the kindness of your heart, or was it actually out of necessity because it was no longer possible for them to be able to do it on their own?

Do you know what the average wage was for a highschool graduate vs. a college graduate (of practically any major) when you graduated compared to today?

Do you know how much competition you had in the market for employment compared to today? Did you have to compete with illegal aliens for employment in blue-collar/minimum-wage.

Did you have to compete for employment with India/Pakistan/Japan/China for employment in technological fields?

What was the outsourcing trend when you started working?

Do a little math, do a little macro economics, take a look at the current federal fiscal policy and market trends and compare them to when you were in the age-range of the X and Y'ers.

The world is a very very different place compared to when you were young. We are globalized, colleges have raised tuition significantly faster than inflation and take on many more exchange-students because they can't negotiate tuition like in-state can

Thanks to the Boomers being the largest voting bloc in US history, and making up almost 25% of the total US population, we've got a government focused almost entirely on cheap debt and short-term, short-sighted results.

This is not the country that you Boomers inherited from your parents.

Do you think we are better off now than when the WWII generation was in charge? Or do you think that the entire nation is making irrational decisions to placate to a generation of greedy and short-sighted individuals only looking out for themselves.

BTW, this is article's study just one study of many. Boomers are the worst savers in US history

Perhaps you are more financially prepared than others...but that makes you the exception, not the rule...I do hope you plan on retiring from your job (if you're not self-employed) and hand the keys to a younger person looking to get their start! Your generation's poor planning is creating the equivalent of a log-jam in employment...whether you'd like to admit it or not.

That's some serious whining there.

Do you think it's possible to support yourself through school working in fast-food these days?

Yes. - Community college for up through 200 level classes then transfer to a state university. It only took me 8 years to do it in the seventies and it's still doable.

.I do hope you plan on retiring from your job (if you're not self-employed) and hand the keys to a younger person looking to get their start!

If my employer can find a registered mechanical engineer with enough experience in commercial HVAC design and construction to do the job, who doesn't mind working 60 hour weeks for $75k/year with occasional production bonuses, I'll think about retiring in 5-6 years.

@ Brian-1075075

Not whining, just pointing out the facts.

Community college for up through 200 level classes then transfer to a state university. It only took me 8 years to do it in the seventies and it's still doable.

According to the link I provided (above), college tuition in just the last year has increased by over 6%.

Here's another link The Simple Dollar (pardon the link to a blog, but the writer's position is well supported by reputable sources).

If my employer can find a registered mechanical engineer with enough experience in commercial HVAC design and construction to do the job, who doesn't mind working 60 hour weeks

Another item of mention based on your comment. How many employers train their employees vs. simply expecting a high level of nascent skills before hiring.

Although this trend has increased more dramatically as of late considering it's a buyer's market for employers during this recession, the trend overall has been that employers want to spend significantly less time (and thus $$$) training new employees.

Just curious, did you get your HVAC cert and experience through your job? Or did you have to pay out of pocket to get it on your own?

I'm not big on using averages but the community colleges in our area cost about $41/ hr plus fees and the local university is a little over $3k per full load semester. Minimum wage gets you about $15k a year. Nobody said it would be easy but that's pretty doable.

Just curious, did you get your HVAC cert and experience through your job? Or did you have to pay out of pocket to get it on your own?

Don't know much about professional engineering do you? I'm a licensed professional engineer in a couple of states. Working for a PE for 4 years after completing an accredited BSME is a basic requirement of licensing. The cost of licensing was my nickle although there are some firms that will subsidized testing and licensing fees. I would gladly take on an Engineer-in-Training. HVAC Engineering isn't sexy or terribly lucrative and there aren't enough coming out of college to replace those of us approaching retirement.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/03/hard-jobs-fill-leadership-careers-employment.html

I have actually read a fair bit in the news on people like you, Brian, being the reason the college grads are unable to find jobs, and the gen-xers are unable to find a new job after being let go during the "recession". Boomers are holding on to their jobs, not willing train younger employees and convincing management that they are they only ones who can do that job. I'm not saying YOU are doing this personally, mind you, but this has been talked about as a reason for the high unemployment for the younger set. Sadly, most of you boomers are not in a good financial place to let go of their jobs, but at the same time, being stingy with the knowledge helps no one. I hope you find someone in your company and train the heck out of 'em so they can make you proud when they take over for you!

doable? HA HA HA, funniest joke i have heard all YEAR! yeah ok, 15k a year (but that is pre taxes bud post you get about 12k) and my community college charge $85 per hour for in state/ city resident and $109 for everyone else, add onto that rent in a cheapo unsafe neighborhood at $450, electric and all these old apartments are all electric only units so that $150 a month to heat yourself and bathe, food well if the parents are as nasty and stingy as you its buying every meal so throw another $200 on that. so assuming you have no car and walk everywhere and you have no phone or internet you get a whole $2400 a year to pay for college with at $85 per hour plus books and fees. so in reality you can buy 20 credit hours per year which at that rate will take you 7.5 years to get a 2 year degree in accounting. this does not figure out how you find an extra 3k a year to buy a semester at a 4 year college when your excess is $2400 a year. so every 2 years you can buy 1 semester so throw another 8 years on top of the 8 you spent getting the 2 year degree and you would be a 34 yr old new college grad.

the 70's was a long time ago buddo without student loans or parental/government help it is nearly impossible to get a 4 year degree and yes living with parents and mooching food goes a long way to buying a degree when you only take home 1000 a month- assuming your not a vampire that charges his kids rent

aggrevated office worker -

You obviously didn't check the federal taxes but truth is you'll take home more than 13K and I guess you didn't take any time doing arithmetic in high school or actually checking how many credits it takes to get an associates. Usually it's around 60 semester hours or 90 quarter hours. At 20 hours per year that's 3-4 years, not 7.5. You don't want to trouble yourself - I don't care. If someone wants to do it bad enough, they can. Hell, I lived in flop house, cooked on a one burner hot plate and showered in the school gym.

3-4 years for an associates?! That person will be rolling in dough in just a few short years, won't they?!

♫We're in the money...♫

Do tell, what high paying jobs does this community college 4yr grad (of a 2yr degree mind-you) hope to nail down in this economy? How about in an up-economy for that matter?

If the Master's is the new Bachelor's degree, what does that make the Bachelor's, the Associate's and the GED/HS Diploma?

Even though aggrevatedofficeworker kinda fudged the tax numbers, there's still plenty of wiggle room with cost of books and everything unforeseen to stay well within his/her ballpark estimates.

Regardless, you're both still arguing details about attaining an associate's...that degree has little more value than as a segue into a 4-year+ degree or barely valuable as a supplemental to vast work-experience and attained by request from one's employer. An associate's by itself is crummy and I will seriously bust a gut with laughter if you're going to debate me otherwise on that ^_^

Looking at the back and forth, both sides have some important points. While I have some things in common with the Woodstock generation, I have more in common with the Generation X. When I was in high school, most of us had jobs and they were still hard to come by. None of us had cars unless we bought them ourselves and we usually paid our own insurance. Born in 1963, I really do not feel like a baby boomer. Generation Y, I think, was the generation born with everything handed to them on a silver platter by their parents. And then they had to encounter the real world. I honestly think that they have it the hardest because they were really handed a false bill of goods.

ok Seriously....start busting your gut! You can obtain several degrees in the medical field in two years, Medical Assistant, Med tech. X- ray Tech or even a Registered Nurse, all with wages ranging from the $50,000 to lowers $100,000 range...so start busting that gut my friend. Or you can go out and get and education like I did and even though I had to work full time all the way through it I made it, was married and having babies at the same time. There is only one reason you cannot get an education in anything you want...You dont' want it bad enough!

pj-965429

Generation Y, I think, was the generation born with everything handed to them on a silver platter by their parents.

In many respects yes. I think I was lucky that my parents were able to provide for me as well as they were able. But there was an obvious disparity even then. My grandparents were able to function incredibly well as a single-earner household with only my grandfather working and raising 2 children. He retired when he turned 62 and had more than enough saved for him and my grandmother to live very comfortably even after he passed away in his 80's.

My parents both have to work, my father had an identical position to my grandfather's at the same company when my grandfather was the same age, my mother too was working and paid well as well. Together, even saving where ever possible like my grandparents had, my parents clearly had to work much harder to achieve the same equivalent level of earnings as my grandfather was reaping on his own just ~30 years prior.

Looking back, even then in the 1980's, the dollar wasn't going nearly as far but pay rates were not increasing at the same pace.

At this day-and-age, it's significantly harder to have a single-earner household...even the low-ball estimate of the CPI basket-of-goods adjustment shows a 323% increase since the 1970's compared to real wages barely matching inflation.

And then they [Gen Y] had to encounter the real world. I honestly think that they have it the hardest because they were really handed a false bill of goods.

I graduated master's school just as the recession hit in 2008...it wasn't pretty...but I managed to land a great job. Many of my contemporaries were not so lucky. The world is a very different place even just 10 years ago, let alone 30 or 60.

@ Marlo-1091145

Ah! Good points! I stand corrected!

You forgot to mention that while the WWII generation brought the US into financial and industrial greatness, they also got us to the Moon, constructed the interstate highways, broke apart abusive monopolies like AT&T, placed huge amounts of public funding into R&D so we could have things like GPS and the Hubble.

What have the Boomers done with the US since then?

Well, they've let our infrastructure crumble

They push for federally subsidized cheap debt (low Fed Rate)

We continue the War on Drugs as the largest public make-work project since The New Deal, equaled only by our defense spending. I for one am glad that the some of the few remaining, thriving domestic industries in the US are private prisons and weapons-design!

They push for spending every penny possible on current SSI and Medicare applicants and are saddling the younger generations with the burden of figuring out how to pay for it

They've largely dismantled NASA and now only vote to pour large amounts of public funding into defense-R&D or military campaigns to keep oil cheap.

They've let AT&T re-consolidate and don't bother with GE, Verizon, Boeing, etc.

etc etc etc.

Even my own folks who helped to put me through college wholly admit that this country is hijacked for the benefit of a single generation.

@ Yank-957120

You do realize just how much added public support went into your upbringing compared to today. You also grew up during a time of massive industrialization and domestic technological innovation that created entire new industries while expanding existing ones.

When you were growing up:

1. K-12 public school provided an education that rivaled most of the developed world.
2. College was affordable thanks to public subsidization many orders of magnitude higher than today.
3. You could actually have a pretty fair-shake with just a high school diploma and some ambition. Today, it's functionally impossible to work part-time and pay entirely for college without being saddled by debt. And with only a high school diploma, average full-time wages make it damn-near impossible to even afford going to school part-time at night.
4. You weren't competing for jobs with people in 3rd world countries willing to work for pennies on the dollar when you were starting out.
5. You were able to start out in industries that didn't yet globalize and begin outsourcing large chunks of their business units.
6. Just since 1970, the costs of everything has increased by approximately 323% while average wages have largely followed inflation (excel file from the BLS.gov). So for every dollar you made being all "bootstrappy" and ambitious, you actually were able to do a lot more with it than people just starting out where you did originally.

...but I'm glad you were able to refinance your home for under 4%. What do you think the negative ramifications are to holding the Fed Rate at near-zero for this long? Guess you'll be too far into dementia or dead to see how your children and grandchildren will fare from your generation's largesse...hope it was worth it.

Please note that my griping is not a criticism of you specifically, but more generally as a negative characterization of a large group of people almost unanimously voting for their specific benefit without care for the long-term ramifications.

...correction...by "cost of everything" I meant to state CPI

Cost of everything one needs to function is what I meant to say

Don't forget to mention that the value of the dollar was MUCH higher (so fewer dollars purchased more), and Boomer Leadership like that of George W. Bush, John W. Snow and Hank Paulson guaranteed that today's dollar has little purchasing power.

I can't in any way see how the "Ungrateful Generations were 'Born after 1980'" when the majority of combat death in Iraq and Afghanistan were from soldiers born after 1980. Whomever stated that opinion is a traitor to the American people and a supporter of Al Qaeda. How dare you!

boogablue

Don't forget to mention that the value of the dollar was MUCH higher (so fewer dollars purchased more)

I didn't ^_^

See my point #6

Yank,

I too am a Boomer, born in 1959. I've paid my own way for the better part of my life. Put myself through college, bought a house I could afford with a down payment and a sane fixed rate mortgage. Have been saving for my retirement since my early 20s. Saved and invested enough to be able to put my two kids through college so they aren't buried with a lifetime of debt.

I'm appalled, disgusted, disappointed, ad nauseum with my generation and the way they have bankrupted this country and its future - financially, spiritually, you name it - with decades worth of selfish indulgence.

And now as I approach my "golden years" I'll have to listen to them whine about how broke they are and why doesn't somebody do something for them.

@ K Man-629118

LOL, I haven't seen anyone here whining for a handout, just griping at the state that the country is in and that this has been the course it has been set on for the better part of 30+ years.

My gripe with the boomer generation primarily resides in that they didn't do enough with their massive size and influence over the nation to put us on a fantastic path towards success, justice and prosperity...but in fact, conversely, in large part voted for the quickest and biggest short-term payoffs possible at the expense of future generations and allowed the foxes to be in charge of the proverbial hen-house with lobbying dollars and massive multinational industrial/banking complexes/oligarchies running the long-term decision-making.

I don't blame you specifically. Specific blame is reserved for all of the politicians that have sold this nation out for their own petty greed and ambitions. More generally, I blame the voters that have and continue to fight to put corrupt morons that put themselves ahead of the success of this country as they run for or try to stay in public office.

not to mention the crowd that whines about the US's dependence on foreign oil but whines profusely and gets all NIMBY and or Greenie when the government tries to construct more nuclear/wind power, or setup a high speed rail to supplement over-crowded, crumbling highways and bridges.

Why would someone, even a family member, want to waste some of their wealth supporting someone with an attitude like yours?? Far better to donate you wealth to charity where it can do some good.

Where did Arrive-1 ask for a donation? Did i miss something?

Peter17 - u obviously born b4 1951! Sound just like a boomer, jumping to conclusions and judging, ha!

ARRIVE 1 ROCKS

and peter definately is sounding like a typical boomer

Hehehe

Peter17 = FAIL^{^2}

It's like FAIL*FAIL

Exponential failure is the best kind of failure

/Spectacular

LOL

I have plenty of good things to say about people as individuals...but we're speaking in aggregate. And the vast majority of Baby Boomer voters have pushed relentlessly to keep government from being able to pay for itself while providing as little as possible in the way of long-term investment.

Look at how the US's operating patterns have shifted ever-more short-term compared to just a couple of decades prior.

Under the WWII generation, the US built the interstate highway system; it subsidized universities and colleges tremendously; US public schools used to rival most of the developed world; the US was an immensely powerful industrialized nation with budget surpluses and a lender to other nations; the business environment was more carefully regulated and monopolies like AT&T were broken apart as a result; taxes were levied more appropriately and the government functioned more fiscally responsibly (up until Carter-onward).

In addition to the above, it focused on retaining domestic industry and protecting against foreign nations deliberately trying to unfairly compete.

Today, everything is focused on short-term. We have abusive monopolies and oligopolies outsourcing entire industries to China/India; we have crumbling infrastructure and the only major amounts of public investment are going into defense spending or the War on Drugs(tm)...nothing with any serious long-term value.

Just as badly, most of the major public activity is on credit. It's like taking a 2nd on your home so you can go on a really nice vacation! There's no long-term payoff!

Anyway, even if you left $25,000 to your kids, you're still going to collect it all in the back-end as your blue-haired generation will start voting in record tax-hikes as you switch to fixed-income, tax-free assets and go onto the public dole voting in increases to SSI and Medicare payouts for your age-group, followed by a moratorium changing the new retirement age to well over 70 so that the X and Y gens can be your generation's serfs for the last 20 years of your lives.

I can't wait...I'm just giddy with excitement

Probably wasn't a boomer who wrote the programs providing risk analysis for credit default swaps. And I'm positive it wasn't a boomer who wrote the magic bullet theory of mass media advertising.

@ Brian-1075075

That's probably true, but I'm almost positive I know who commissioned those quants to put together those financial tools and securities...and since I doubt that the leaders of these organizations were young go-getters in their 30's, dare I suggest they might be of a different age-bracket (BTW, criminals and sociopaths are not exclusive to any one age group...I'm just being a contrarian here)

Also, derivatives and options are not the problem, it's the lack of regulation and the captains of the financial industries which gamed the market for a quick buck...but they got their golden parachutes/bailouts, so its all 5x5 I guess.

derivatives and options are not the problem, it's the lack of regulation

We'll disagree. The only regulation that will work is to prohibit derivatives so far removed from the commodity that they cannot be properly valued.

Agreed! It has shades of the 1929 crash in many respects with all of these securities whose values are overly inflated and under-supported.

Personally, I think the best way to regulate the derivatives markets are to first require that only direct industry-producers/distributors/consumers can participate in the commodities-futures markets and that only in instances of proven financial hardship can a producer resell a contract rather than take ownership when a future comes to term...this should help prevent the hedge-fund pump-and-dump strategy we've seen with oil and rice

As for the options and swaps markets, this one is a lot trickier, but I think that it first at least needs the same requirements that the SEC is supposed to uphold (ideally) when it comes to insider trading, due-diligence, and the principle/agent bonafide dealings requirements (like not shorting one's client's/principle's investments for the agent's own gain). Secondly, in terms of valuation, the creators of these financial instruments should be required to underscore every clause of the instrument and how it quantifiably ties back to the asset it represents.

The baby boomers have been paying into social security for forty years. Who do you think supported the greatest generation in their retirement? As we supported whiners like you, watching you grow up to become a blamer and hater. I don't blame your parents for not leaving you anything, they should have left you as a bad idea in the back of the car. Somehow I don't think the likes of you will save this country from itself so get off your high horse and go back to surfing the internet for porn.

Oh my no, the payroll taxes must stay, just stop paying the benefits. Result, decreased spending and a balanced budget!!! Tea Party principles, cut the spending! Who hoo! I think it is a fantastic idea. Besides, if the debt ceiling is not raised, that is exactly what the government would have to do, instantly cut 40% of spending, with S.S. and Medicare being just that, 40% of spending, we have an easy solution. See, the Tea Party is right, the solution to our problems are very simple.

Agreed,

Therman, take a look at the budget deficit. Borrowing from the SSI Trust is one of the main tools that the government has utilized to try to keep the the lights on.

Not even China can keep up with our spending. The SSI trust is required to buy debt from Congress using their "unobligated gains" on the fund, and they do so at a rate of almost 3:1 compared to ALL purchases of State/Federal notes by any other entity, foreign or domestic.

China is merely the majority holder of the US's internationally-held debt. The American citizen is actually the holder of the vast majority of ALL US debt

So, if we get rid of social security/medicare, then payroll taxes have nowhere to go...so if we presume that the federal government gives it up, then they also give up that revenue stream.

Hence, not only is it not a wash as lilDi was optimistic about...it is in fact a deeper negative because there would no longer be an asset with which Congress could continue to borrow against.

Its funny you would mention the term Tea Party in the same sentence as advocating taxation without representation. You do know about the Boston Tea Party, Right? On the other hand you may have sucked me into your sarcasm. I just can't tell where your coming from. If so, nicely played!

Sorry "Seriously?", you are wrong! There is no cash in the SS Trust Fund. Its all in Special Treasury Bonds as required by law. Up until about 2009, the SS Fund was taking in more than it was paying out, with the difference used to buy more Treasury Bonds. You are right in that the excess cash to buy bonds went into the General Fund, but since 2009, there is less coming in than paying out.

@ lilDi

Agreed about the recent switch from surplus to negative, I was just speaking since the last couple of decades.

However, the blip in the payouts has quite a bit to do with the recent recession and the rapid increase in unemployment and business closures...all of whom used to pay into payroll taxes, which supported the surplus. I still don't see evidence pointing to the Boomers hitting the dole en masse just yet, which would indicate the inevitable systematic shift from more payors vs. fewer recipients to the opposite.

I'm hopeful that we probably won't see the mass-retirement migration until the economy begins to improve enough for the boomers to be satisfied with liquidating their remaining investment assets. But it's definitely a race against time.

Seriously - My apologies. I didn't read that into your post. I agree that the recession may be the cause of the reversal in payroll tax income to payouts. Lets hope the Boomers don't put to much burden on the SS fund even though the Boomers paid into the SS fund for the last 40 years and probably paid more than any generation to date.

@ lilDi

No worries

Also note that while the Boomers paid more than anyone to date, they also have been pivotal in supporting candidates that have expanded this social safety net to its ungainly proportions...be it the retirement age that hasn't followed the average increase in US citizen lifespans, the incessant borrowing from the fund in the trillions, extending it to support numerous disabilities (wrought with fraud), etc.

The WWII generation got the most out of SSI thanks to the Boomer-generation's massive size and tax-base. The problem is that the Boomers didn't roll-back all of the crap that the WWII generation voted for themselves when they were wholly dependent on the dole. Now SSI and Medicare are on the rocks since Gen X and Y are too small, even combined to support the current demands that the SSI/Medicare funds support in payout terms.

I realize that aggregate statistics do not represent everyone in a group fairly. There will be individual examples that both prove and disprove the thesis of the study. If my statements do not apply to you, that is fine, please ignore them as no harm was meant to any one individual. However, if enough of a group act a certain way then generalizations can be applied.

I stated that my statements were my opinion only and therefore can be agreed with or dismissed as the reader sees fit. As for what does standing by my statements as generalizations mean, it means it has been my experience that boomers (as a group) are the most selfish, narcissistic, "what's in it for me" group of people that America has ever produced and this stereotype pans out to be true time and time again. I know this is a broad statement and no, I do not have facts to back it up. It is my opinion. I am allowed to have it and say it. You have the freedom to call it wrong and ignore it. I think more people agree with me than disagree.

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement "Individual CHOICES are more important than statistics."

However you did not read the articles close enough. This one is about people, of all generations, who have money and might be considered rich. This study showed what they were doing with the money.

The other article was about the middle-class, of all generations, and which ones lost the most wealth (or value).

Two different premises so two different results.

@ JulieB-42

Well said!

Life has been very hard for the middle-class over at least the last 30 years. And many of the people I know personally in the Boomer generation have made enormous sacrifices...but in aggregate, look at the policy decisions adopted from the voting pattern of this group!

They outnumber all other voters 3:1 and make up 25% of the total US population...

My disgust comes from the fact that while the Boomers were activists for justice in their youth, protesting the Vietnam War, they completely let the country go to special interests and crony capitalism as they aged!

Heck, even Eisenhower warned of the "Military Industrial Complex"...I bet he didn't imagine just how many new complexes would join in. We now have a private prison industrial complex, a mass media one, another giant banking oligarchy rivaled only by 1900's JP Morgan, Andrew Carnegie and JD Rockefeller, etc etc etc.

Considering just how large and influential the Boomer generation is, their decision-making pattern as a group (or lack thereof) of the last 20 years is primarily why we are in all of these messes, of sky-high deficits, crumbling infrastructure, massive corruption, and an inability to make the appropriate decisions to get ourselves out of it.

I think you need to look at the demographics of those who voted for a Democrat Congress that took office in Jan 2007 and for Obama in 2008 to see exactly who got us into to this weak economic mess.

@ Peter17

HAHAHAHAHA

So the problems that we are in today started in 2007 with the Democrats in Congress and 2008 when Obama took office as POTUS?

Wow! Please explain and cite your sources carefully ;P

Perhaps you will win a Nobel Prize in economics and the Presidential Medal of Freedom if you can somehow justify how our entire economic calamity is in no part a series of faults of the Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton and Bush 43 administrations!

While you're at it, what happened to those last 2-years of W's budget that he passed? Did Obama somehow manage to not carry it out? If you're going to whine about spending, you may also want to do some important reading

...Anyway, I'm not a big fan of Obama, but it certainly seems like you weren't paying attention until McCain lost the race for President.

Yes, there are many responsible people just like you that are being screwed just like the rest of us.

The problem is that in aggregate, this country is going down the toilet because one part of the Baby Boomer generation cannot wait to outsource every last remaining US industry to the lowest bidder, another vast part wants government out of their medicare, another part wants creationism taught in science class, and yet another part wants every handout possible from the government.

At worst, the Boomers in aggregate are greedy and used their aggregate voting influence to write checks on the backs of the younger generations like the WWII generation did to the Boomers with Vietnam and the increase in payouts for SSI/Medicare...but it's ok, because the Boomers voted for tax-cuts and tax cuts and federally subsidized cheap debt.

Most likely, the Boomers are a disorganized swathe of people that individually and collectively allowed government to be hijacked by special interests that play to society's paranoia and "family values" in order to raid the public coffers.

What we have today is a result.

Hopefully the cynicism of the X'ers and Y'ers will be enough to not buy into the tripe fed through mass media...but not bloody likely.

I have to give you credit for persistence. You've been on this thread since 1pm this afternoon. I'm a boomer. BTW, that's anyone born between 1946 and 1964. I'm assuming you are younger. Probably a distinction between you and most of the "boomers" that I knew is that we were working about this time of day.

Most of my peers also knew what savings accounts, ira's, stock purchase plans and other means of planning for the future were. We also thought that raiding social security for all sorts of "social programs" was a mistake--many, if not most of us voted our feelings. So, I guess we didn't have as much influence with our votes as you give us credit for.

I'm financially secure--that's after 2 kids through college, paying off the mortgage and having what we boomers call a nest egg--not through govt programs but just common sense--we spent less than we earned, lived in a house that we could afford and saved for the future. Oh yeah, part of that savings was a forced deduction called social security/medi***.

I'm with you on SS. Cut me a check for what I paid, include the interest and I guarantee be one of the happiest people around. I'll do better with it (as I have with the previously mentioned programs) than either side of the aisle will do in Washington. I've also been out of the workforce since age 55 (7 years) so go get my old job--it's yours if you want it.

I'm enjoying retirement, working part time and, yup, drawing some of the ss that I paid over the 30+ years I worked--I won't get it all, trust me.

Well said. Thank you.

The reality of boomers is there are about twice as many of us as other generations. If half of us do something it impacts society the same way all of a different generation does.

@ w proud

ad hominem attacks aside, I'm not disagreeing with how you've run your life. I'm glad that you reside in the far-right tail of your generation's distribution. But the Boomers still by-and-large have not saved anything close to enough to retire on. You are simply an exception, much like many others (claiming?) on here, vehemently defending an entire generation just as I brashly try and paint you all with a similar broad stroke.

But again, I'm sure you also spent more time researching which candidates you voted for compared to the typical, and perhaps even broke with party-line to pick the candidate you wanted vs. which one political party du jour supported.

And again, if you did/do that, that too puts you in a minority, though a fast-growing one (read: disenchanted moderates).

I guess we didn't have as much influence with our votes as you give us credit for.

Not on an individual basis, no...I'm speaking in aggregate proportions...this is a generational-debate after all. Boomers banded together in large consensus on the Vietnam War. Has the gravity of the situation changed since then, or does having a family and a mortgage create a certain immobility when it comes to resisting/reversing bad political policy?

Well Pepper, you better get busy. I am of the generation between Boomers and Xers. The majority of us had jobs in high school. The majority of us did not have our parents buying us everything we wanted or needed (we worked for it). If we had a car, we bought it ourselves (work=money=reward) Boomers complain, their genY offspring complain yet there are those of us that actually have something to complain about. I am betting that the majority of you that whine and complain about how bad you have it are of the "Y" generation. That's your parents fault, not mine.