As long as they aren't stealing it from others, I say grats to them for their financial success. Most millionaires I know got there through decades of hard work and smart decision making. The didn't flip a switch or steal from others - it took many, many long hours and years of dedicated effort with a goal in mind.

Ahhh yes,

Choice #1.... more philanthropy

Choice #2 ......job creators

Choice #3....THE PAC MONEY voters.

Ahhhh, the land of jealousy and envy. Get off your butt and make something of yourself. It's amazing how lucky you get when you get up and got to work everyday.

A lot of that is from all the tax cuts they got those years. No wonder bush is so popular with these people!

We call enslaving people and taking their labors, "making money"

So... More millionaires, wasn't it that Trickle down economics stated that the rich created more opportunities so they should pay less taxes? Where are the jobs then? Another great example of the fraud in Reaganomics.

Pathetic liberal lies. Bush tax cuts got unemployment down to 4.6%. That's what democrats inherited, ask them where the jobs are. Try visiting the BLS website for a change.

The ultimate greed is stealing what you haven't earned from your neighbor. The ultimate cowardice is having the government steal it for you. Instead of jealously coveting what your neighbor has stop being a coward and earn more yourself.

they won't have it long if the liberals have it their way...as in "give it to me" or I'll cry.

valhalla

Bush tax cuts got unemployment down to 4.6%

You mean up to 4.6%. It was 4.0% when he got into office. That 4.6% was one of the numbers it passed through on the way to 7.8% when he got out. Ah, don't forget it hit 7% with in one or two years after his tax cuts.

In ancient Egypt, the unemployment rate was probably 0%... they were all SLAVES! Is that what we are shooting for? Works well for the 1%.

It just goes to show. You work hard, work long hours, show loyalty to the company, and you end up out of work with a broken body and nothing much to show for it when they move production overseas and become millionaires. The American way GOP style.

There's also a lot of hard-working drug dealers who make millions out there- guess the same concepts apply

It is amazing how many people buy onto the trickle down bologna. Rich people do not hire people because they are rich. People are only hired when there is demand. Demand and demand alone creates jobs. Henry Ford (no Democrat) knew this. He knew that his own employees needed to make enough money to afford his cars. This strategy resulted in more demand for his cars. With more demand came more employment opportunities.

..always good to see "job creators" on the rise... *cough*

Is this a joke? Because I'm not laughing. If true, congratulations on their success.

I've got an idea then, Lets tax em some more! Surely that will bring companies and jobs home! Of course if we didn't expect the highest wages and the cheapest products at the same time we would have never had this problem. Face it folks, no politician can fix the people who are the root of the problem. Only we can fix this and we can only do it by refusing to purchase goods made outside our boarders!

I like all the people who get off their butt and say make something for yourself. I do. I have a college degree. i work 55+hours per week. I own real-estate. And now I am putting myself through graduate school. But, It still @!$%#s me up that employer's don't have any extra cash.

Looks like I am just going to have to venture on my own if I want to make millions. Then, when the company is doing well, I will pay myself millions while telling my support staff that there isn't room in the budget to give them cost of living raises. Sorry, you don't work as hard as I use to.

J.A.:

The data are based on ANNUAL income tax returns. Their income may fluctuate from year to year, but that certainly doesn't mean their net worth decline. To the contrary....the rich get richer, and there's not a single statistic that shows otherwise.

If you are going to walk the point as an apologist for the wealthy, don't you think you should understand the data presented here?

Looks to me like fewer people with million dollar incomes.

tunanut wrote:

"Looks to me like fewer people with million dollar incomes."

That's because you don't know what to look for. You see a poorly-written headline and go no further.

Income can be mitigated by countless factors, not the least of which is loss carryovers. AGAIN, the figures used in the chart are for ANNUAL incomes. This has nothing to do with greed or envy, it is simply a chart showing an increase of people with million-dollar annual incomes.

Use a parachute next time you jump.

Actually the headline says the opposite. Million dollar incomes are up, but not as high as they were in 2007. Personal income loss carryover is limited to $3000/year, I don't think that will effect very many millionaires. Oh, it also says that there aren't alot of single millionaires.

Do you see something else? Please do tell or quit trying to act so smart.

Yes the rich have gotten richer and the poor poorer. Guess who's run the country for the last four years! Obama.

From the Frontline documentary, Obama's own aids said he had a choice between fixing the economy and Obamacare, he chose Obamacare. Yet you liberal idiots accuse republicans of voting against their own best interests. Really sad.

tunanut:

Headline says more, you say it looks like less. Confused much? As far as loss carryover, you are referring strictly to CAPITAL loss carryover. No, the article did not say there weren't a lot of millionaires. That's purely subjective and means nothing. Again, you neglect net worth.

Valhalla Phil:

More of the same, sorry, tired, I hate Obama crap. The trend line that clearly demonstrates that the rich are getting richer has been in place for more than 30 years.

As far as The Affordable Health Care Act, the fact is President after President has talked about this. Like it or not, President Obama was the only one who had the guts to do it. If it costs him a second term, so be it. Fact is he walked the walk.

Additionally, the current health care system is a national disgrace. We pay more for less, and we have a huge portion of our population that gets its medical care at the emergency room, which you pay for via the government. Oh yeah, that's smart policy. Liberals may accuse you faux "conservatives" of voting against your interests, it's simple arithmetic that confirms it.

Time is a concept, some of us get it. You have yet to make a valid point. You must be democrat because the AHA does everything except make healthcare afforadable. better luck next time. oh, and it very well might be declared unconstuitional very shortly. Such loosers,gotta pass it to find out what's in it. That's a good way to make laws.

Who ran up the bills? You or them? You dont think they have bills that they have to pay?

If these people were, collectively less rich, there would be more money to pay these bills. Their extreme income acts as a regressive tax against the economy, dampening growth. There's only so much money to go around, and the way things are organized these days, the upper class is doing its best to squeeze the middle and lower classes.

Romney's economic plan, for example, will not do anything about the deficit. It will lower taxes for the rich, but it will make up for it by increasing taxes on the poor.

I guess rich people put there money in mattresses, removing it from the economy. Stupid me, I thought they started businesses with it and hired people, or invested it in places where other people could use it for the same thing!

DaveGinOly --

Doesn't happen. Not much, anyway. That's the Republican line, which surprisingly many have swallowed.

Put money in the hands of the non-wealthy, and it goes into the economy. Directly. Pay the bills, Maybe the new roof that the house needs or a new car. Maybe even a dinner out, or a vacation. That money goes directly into the economy.

Put money in the hands of the already wealthy, they are already doing those things. It does not directly add more to the economy; they don't put it in their mattresses, but they do sock it away with the idea of making even more money, mostly in the financial sector.

Job creators??? Maybe here and there but not what it's cracked up to be. That money is being socked away where it does not go directly into the economy. That indirect stuff is called 'trickle-down,' and in reality not much trickles down.

Another good reason for the "millionaires' tax." And the more millions, the higher the tax. The folks who have an income of twelve or thirty million dollars should be paying a higher tax than those who earn one million!

As everyone knows, including most liberals, when you tax something you get less of it. So, based on your argument, you want less millionaires. Somehow you seem to reason that if there are less millionaires, there will be more wealthy poor people..

One of the main ways that the wealthy avoid taxes is through tax free municipal bonds. I guess you would ban them as well. Great idea, but with one small problem.. without muni's no infrastructure projects, schools, bridges, transit etc..

At the bottom of it, you are nothing more than a person who envies another because of their wealth.

Failing economics must be a prerequisite to being a liberal. ALL money stays in the economy. The problem is government money gets laundered through a bureaucracy that skims 25% off the top. Giving them a dollar will not return a dollar to you in services. Liberals of course will claim that those leaches are employed and pay taxes, but they do not create wealth, they only destroy it.

Only the private sector creates wealth, that's where you want the money. As said above, the rich don't keep their money under a mattress, they spend it and invest it. Both creates jobs.

it is government stealing money from the private sector that destroys jobs, Obama had govt spending up from the usual 18% to 25%. That is a huge increase.

We've tried liberal economics for almost six years now, it isn't working. Time to stop destroying capitalism, time to stop the war on success.

@Valhalla Phil

Got your head up your @ss huh?

As you said, all money stays in the economy, and every statistic shows it is going up to the top all the while the middle class is shrinking.

Millionaires do not create jobs for the most part, hedge-fund managers, stock tycoons, and investments do not create jobs, they create more wealth for the wealthy.

Get a clue, trickle down economics has proven to be bullcrap over and over again.

Not saying the government not a big part of the problem mind you, but you seem to be one of these ignorant people who believe the rich are the hand that feeds us.

And guess who controls government and government policy? The RICH. Through special interest groups and lobbyists. So in the end it is still your precious "job creators" that run the government anyway.

Step 1:create a problem

Step 2:fix it and get more control/power in the process

Step 3:repeat until you control everything

And btw we are still in a trickle down economics policy with bush-era tax cuts going, so its not really a liberal economy now is it?

So are you saying the poor create jobs? How about the local pizza deli and he/she deciding on am I going to hire another person? The same question is being asked by a manufacturer in your area... We are trying to decide if we hire a recent grad with a chem. eng. degree next month... Those are the people to motivate. The rest is noise...

You're right ajw23, the wealthy should have to pay for your education (or lack thereof) and basic expenses.

Actually teo the poor DO create jobs........that's why there are so many meth labs, hookers, pimps, carjackers, and armed robbers in the poor neighborhoods.

Just cause you don't like those jobs doesn't mean they are not jobs......

Another pathetic liberal lie. It's democrats that have run the economy since they took over congress. What you are witnessing today is liberal policies.

How's that hope and change working out for you!

Too true John.

Trickle down economics failed. The money is sitting stagnant at the top of the food chain. Some sort of legislation needs to be enacted to make those folks spend it. Who really needs 350 billion dollars in the bank? WTF are you saving for? lol

I personally feel tax BREAKS for the wealthy would work if they were targeted for people who spent money and created jobs. IE: create a company, hire 1000 people and you get some sort of tax break for your stimulus efforts.

Minimal taxes on people holding maximum cash reserves through crafty investments and tax code manipulation is killing this economy. There is indeed only so many dollar bills to go around.

John, Question. How many people have YOU hired? I've hired well over 1000 and layed off around 200.... Is that fair? If I didn't, and the comapny went broke, no one would have a job.

"I am losing sleep trying to figure out how I can get your last dollar....."

You might not be that person but surely there is someone out there thinking that way. And they are likely wealthier than you or I. Benny Hinn would be a good example.

Never had financial difficulty in my life but no way in hell I would ever vote Republican. As these numbers attest the wealthy have done just fine under Obama. The idea we need another tax cut is simply absurd.

You can worry about yourself or you can worry about yourself and the rest of the citizens of this country who don't have much of anything. Being in the latter group I will continue to vote Democratic.

I'm doing fine Elephant Man, unlike you, I care what happens to Seniors, and poor people. I know it's all about you.

Better hide your money, we're coming for you.

Also whiz kid you might try commenting on my comment, you know that little reply button.

Vox....Being in that group of citizens who dont have much of anything, you will continue to vote for democrats.....Yes, vote against opportunity and greater economy....I can see you want to keep that history going....

J.A-522495

John....I am a fairly well off person who votes mostly Republican....I am losing sleep trying to figure out how I can get your last dollar.....Why dont you just send it to me?? Other than that, I hope you enjoy a fairly mediocre life...

It shouldn't be that hard JA, just do the same as a lot of other businesses owners;

Hide your high interest charges/fees in the small print and any other thing you might wish to stick your customers with;

Lie about your product. You can claim anything you want on the label, even if it isn't true; latest new ones, maple syrup, lemon juices, most fish species are misidentified;

Start a charitable scam, they seem to work real, real well !!!!!

You can sell stock shares from your business on Wall Street and make a TON of money (hint, they will help you figure out how much the market will bear) ie; Facebook

JA --

I quote: '....Being in that group of citizens who dont have much of anything, you will continue to vote for democrats.....Yes, vote against opportunity and greater economy....I can see you want to keep that history going...."

I think that may be the essence of Republican values -- what one has. Not the quality of one's character, not what one can do to contribute to a better society... Those things are important to me, so as long as the Republican party promotes greed and inequity I will indeed not vote Republican.

The history that we must not keep going is the legacy of the Republican party, easily since Reagan, but it does go back much further. It is not a legacy that serves our country well. Opportunity for whom? Greater economy meaning just what? Since it's about what you have, compared to what the rest of us have, I guess I can see what you mean. But that's not what's best for our country.

I am heartened to see that the Democratic party is more openly embracing more inclusive, more humane and more socially responsible policies, policies in the spirit of FDR -- and LBJ. (I despised LBJ for a long time because of Vietnam but I came to realize his domestic policies were some of the best things that happened in our country during the last half of the century.) I would like to see that kind of responsibility extended and built upon. That is the history we need to keep going.

Morrigan....I would bet that you especially liked it when Johnson got congress to make it legal for the federal gov to steal the SS money. But course he(and you) cares more, so that makes it all right..... Is that the essence of socialist Democrat values?

Morrigan,

I get your point and i totally agree. The promotion of selfishness by politicians and individuals alike will kill this country in the end.

We may not be ready for everyone sharing everything tomorrow but theres no reason we can't work towards a collective civilization 200 years from now. Build upon that now and our children will be rewarded.

Yes, of course you want to get rid of that mean old free market, free individual, free choice successful America and replace it with the big central big boss federal government that rules all and sees that no one gets really successful no matter how much effort they put in. When opportunity is dead, you will have won.

John, Morrigan and all liberals....Tell me exactly how "caring more" is working to the benefiet of our country and our poor? Obama has been caring more for the poor for 3.5yrs now and the poor seem to be losing on a yr to yr basis. How does caring more produce healthy food and more ability to pay the rent and the other bills? How does caring more reduce the debt of the country? How does caring more produce better business and more and better jobs? As long as caring more replaces better business and more job opportunity, caring more will only produce more debt and a much worse situation for us all....Lets brag about success, more business, more jobs, less debt and a better future for all our people.... This is just common sense and we need more of that and less dependence on fake promises that socialism makes.

Well Said J.A.! Them's fighting words!! My teenagers adore your practical sarcasm and have You on their reading list this summer!!!

Keep it up; it is a breath of fresh air!

Testy...Thank you. I realize that I am on a very liberal vine and expect most people to attack....I just think that a little sanity and commonsense needs to be added and not just accept the PC nonsense that keeps coming up here. It is always good to hear that some other people appreciate what made our country great. I also like to dig at the media too. As you probably know already.

So how's that hope and change working out for you? You lemmings are happily jumping off the cliff while Obama is holding multiple $40,000/$50,000 per plate fund raisers a day and laughing all the way to the bank.

The private sector IS fine...for him. SUCKERS!

And Taco Bender Mitt says He's not worried about the POOR !! So tell me who's better ???

J.A. you dont get it man! its the corporation taking all our money in their corporate schemes. your a corporate man trying to steal my bro johns wealth in a corporate ploy...I dont have money for you to take, ive opened my third eye to allow the ultimate enlightenment. I deal in humanity, im all about fighting that corporation and their attempts to quantify our abilities or contain our humanity. i listen to greatfull dead, they help me stick it to the man. Think of our world like a glass box, we think we see the bigger picture but yet we are ensconced within this box, ensnared per say by the corporation. please try to think of a way to take my humanity since you corporate big wigs took my money...

You are right, man. I just dont get it, man. How many eyes do you have, man??? I mean when you are sober, man.. Just get a job, pay your bills and save a little, man. That is all that it takes, man. There never was a time when people could eat without putting in a little effort, man.

JA (Post # 5.0 & #8.0)

To quote you:

"John....I am a fairly well off person who votes mostly Republican....I am losing sleep trying to figure out how I can get your last dollar.....Why dont you just send it to me?? Other than that, I hope you enjoy a fairly mediocre life..." (Post # 5)

Apparently your earnings (see the highlighted) are better than your spelling. In case you didn't know it, most good computers have a spell check. If you are making all the money you claim, then why does it appear that you are you so unhappy, sarcastic, and condescending against those, who you think are earning far less than you?? Be glad that you aren't forced into the streets, or one of those companies that your Right Wing leader, Romney (the job creator) took over as their CEO, then borrowed money to make so called improvements that never happened while charging an outrageous salary to place into his deep pockets, and finally fired many employees to provide even more money for himself before bankrupting the companies into the ground.

To quote you again:

"John, I noticed that next to your name you chose to use a picture of a MJ leaf. Is that little habit another way that you spend yourself into the poor house?? Perhaps it is your drug dealer who is taking all your money..and not the evil rich...Great choice you made there." (Post # 8)

Well, since when are the high end drug dealers not part of the evil rich????!!!!!

In regards to loss of income/assets during the Recession, did you ever read any of the news articles reporting from the research studies that the Poor income/assets loss was 44%; Middle Class loss was in the mid 30's %; the Rich lost only 1%; and the upper Elite 2% Rich had a gain of PLUS 5%. The latter group, like Romney, earned their hard working money from such deals like Romney/Wall Street Finance/Bankers, and then sent their assets off shore to a warehouse businesses to which they do not have to pay any taxes (Zero/Nada) to the US. Many thanks to the U.S. Marshall Plan (enacted after WW ll for the purpose of rebuilding Europe for 4 years. Later it was replaced, but left the tax exemption code in tact). Since that time, the tax has never been repealed. Can anyone really call that "Fair and Balanced" wages along with "Fair and Balanced" taxation as many CEO's run their business into the ground while laying off thousands of workers?? While the rich may provide some jobs, small businesses provide the majority of jobs (around 70% to 80% but with little to small profit to the owners). However, the Poor and once large Middle Class provide more support (and have more knowledge/skills while earning low standard wages than do the upper echelons) through their purchasing from the elites than do the elite with their provided many tax exemptions/ and financial connections which is not provided to the lower classes and many minorities. Many small businesses start up without the ability to borrow or get money from their daddy along with his connections. Their salaries are not out of line like the overly inflated CEO's/ Finance Wall/Bankers, etc.

You may or may not be independent(I think you really belong to the radical occupy group of nuts) but you certainly are not a thinker....I certainly did not support so much of our production facilities being moved out of the country and that is where our middle class lost out.....and that moving was supported by the likes of Carter, Clinton and Obama(as well as some republicans). In fact now Obama wants to outlaw much of what is left of the production in this country. If he is successful, that many more jobs will disappear...And of course you want to concentrate on my poor spelling??? Or, are you just trying to be a jerk?

JA (Post #8.2)

To quote you:

"You are right, man. I just dont get it, man. How many eyes do you have, man??? I mean when you are sober, man.. Just get a job, pay your bills and save a little, man. That is all that it takes, man. There never was a time when people could eat without putting in a little effort, man."

Your condescending/ derogatory comment about the poorer working people just made my point (Post # 8.3) about your attitude in above postings. First of all, not all the working Poor are drug users, but many drug users may be found among the wealthier classes, possibly because they have nothing better to do with their time. The poor don't have the money to buy drugs, unless the wealthy provide them the illegal job of distributing the drugs. Those wealthy bosses do not desire risking their own safety working in the streets. Next, the wealthy often higher the poor to work in bad and unhealthy environments Try paying them a higher wage so that they can pay their standard daily living bills. They are not supposed to be the Corporate Slaves.

Try using your spell checker for spelling, "dont," correctly.

Post 8.4

"are you just trying to be a jerk?"

No, I leave that up to you! Once again you prove my points. By the way, what do your initials, JA, really stand for? How true!

Hey Independent, I realize you were probably all confused since you were writing about drugs and drug dealers, but the correct term is "hire", not "higher". (#8.5)

Maybe you should work a little harder and save your money so you can buy a computer with spell check on it, as you so wisely advised someone else to do.

And JA did have it wrong--you are not trying to be a jerk, but somehow you are one.

Independent....So, I didnt(no apostrophe) put an apostrophe in the word dont....Is that your big deal? I often dont bother with that on this informal chatter...Plus, I was mimicking the language of Quit(his spelling of dont seems to be OK with you) as most people can probably tell....But, a man of your superior intelligence missed that??? Really?....I would be embarrassed if I had said that the wealthy often higher the poor....but you did, not me...Oh my God, the embarrassment of it all....!!

Independent... Actually, I am a big supporter of small business and not so much of very large corporations. I am also a supporter of small government rather than big overbearing government. It is shameful that our government has not allowed the strength of small business to remain intact, but small business has very little money that they can donate for political purposes. They cannot buy the legislation that large corporations can. And, democrat liberals seem to at least take their share of those donations from large corporations...and also unions....If you are depending on the liberals in government to make things more honest and fair you have certainly wasted your time up until now.... And, Obama seems quite blatant about pushing for his big share of donations.....

Mr. Embarrassment J.A.

The small businesses employ 70 % to 80% of the working force population which is far less than the wealthy employment history for workers. Should I say get your facts straight, or stop the trite Republican manipulation? "There are none so blind as those who won't hear (or read I might add)." No need to reply, some people have more important things to do. Remember, "What goes around, comes back around !!" (eventually) J.A.

What did that mean?? It appears that you are now just talking in circles without any real thought process going. Oh, you were just telling me off....I am so upset....Well, no I am not....

J.A.

Try taking a reading and logic 101 course.

Should we depend on the Party of always "NO" and "Do Nothing", esp. when it includes food or healthcare for the citizens or the less fortunate? Your so called candidate, Romney, doesn't know the first thing about honest; but he stands by what he says, even though he doesn't recall what he says. But that's okay, continue with puffing your mouth. The Republican City Officials of Orlando passed an ordinance that no organization (at their own expense and time) may feed the homeless except once a week in a designated and inconvenient out of the way place. Anyone violating that ordinance would be arrested and fined. Now that's what I call a real "Republican embarrassment" with an "attitude chip on their shoulder" alongside Romney. Try walking in their shoes and working at 3 Burger spots to see how far your pennies will go for supporting the daily bills and necessities. OMG, I forgot, you claim they don't work and do drugs.

Independent...You appear to be the talking head here. Neither party is perfect and as I said before, I am much more a conservative than a republican. The democrat party has just grown into an anti american socialist nightmare. All you can say is "we care more" without realizing that the country needs business and production and opportunity to provide the jobs that will make most americans better off. So many of the lib radicals(Obama is a fine example) advocate closing business and production down. They portray business and business people as the dreaded enemy of the country and all the people. You cannot have jobs and economy and opportunity without business.....You, and Obama, apparently dont know that.

at least the teaparty did what they were elected to do...stop spending, any dems actually do what they were elected to do other than Reid...do nothing senator.

Joe, that is the biggest lie I have ever heard. If you dont have the facts, dont pass along your assumptions as facts. I have seen a lot of self made millionaires. Dont tell your kids that, you will be doing them the biggest disservice of all, killing their hope.

All liberal have nowadays is lies. They can't run on their records, they don't dare run on Obamacare, there's nothing left.

I also have known many millionaires, they all earned it. I was able to retire at 55 because I earned it. My friend was able to retire at 46 because he earned it.

It's because I've known so many that made something of themselves that I have zero tolerance for those who would find any excuse for their pathetic lives so they can steal from others rather than put forth any effort on their own behalf.

Sorry, I see a lot of BS in your post. First, who cares what the rich buy! There is something sad going on when one becomes so judgmental of others. If some guy buys a dozen suits, that means the small business he bought them from can keep his doors open and keep his staff. I've never watched the Kardashians, but whatever they do, as long as they spend or invest their money, it is added to the economy, it means jobs.

The biggest falacy is somehow poor dollars are more noble that rich dollars, that somehow the rich are pigs while the poor are honorable. It's been my experience, growing up in poor neighborhoods, that it's just the opposite.

How many poor worship basketball players? Seriously, does basketball have any real socially redeeming values? How about "world of warcraft" or whatever video game? How many poor bought that? Please explain it's socially redeemig value!

I bet I could go through your home and label a bunch of your stuff crap. Get off your high horse and allow people to live thier lives, even the Kardashians. Better yet, sell the PC you are posting on and give the money to a local food shelter, not doing so would make you a pig, right?

Marie, Sorry to hear that you can't. But encourage your kids to invest (debt) with ROI in mind. If you go to a state college with in-state fees and focus on majors offering good return, they can easily handle the loans.

Government pumps money into housing, prices go through the roof.

Government pumps money into health care, prices go through the roof.

Government pumps money into student loans, prices go throgh the roof.

See a pattern here? Pumping money into anything brings inflation, no way around it. That's why government spending must be slashed, they take your money, pump it into a sector, then you have to pay more. They hit you twice, once with taxing/borrowing from China, twice with higher prices.

Yeah, it's called "Greed" Vanilla Ice. Oh, uncle sam is subsidizing? Better bilk the system for all we can. Kinda like the contractors do in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So as long as the rich supports Republican.. they are ok... but the rich supporting Democrats they are jerks?

Optimist, That response does not sound optimistic at all. There is no common pot. There are opportunities, we got to get up and either compete for existing ones or create new ones for ourselves. Let's try, not just assume that they are somehow taking it and giving up under false assumptions.

And more pathetic liberal lies. If the rich are getting richer, and the republicans favor the rich, why woud republicans not want the economy to improve?

That's the problem with liberal lemmings, they get their marching orders and are too stupid to think through what they are told to post.

The inconvenient truth is democrats have run this economy since Jan, 2007 when they took over congress. This economy is theirs, the crash is theirs, the rich are getting richer reality is theirs.

If the rich are getting richer, and the republicans favor the rich, why woud republicans not want the economy to improve?

Because goal #1 is to make Obama a one term president and they have sworn an oath to oppose any of Obama's and the Democrat's policies. They cheer economic bad news under the Obama administration; the country be damned.

Joe Done-

Right, like the bozos who crashed the economy right?!?! You're right, there are some that could be argued deserve the money they make....there are some that employ many people and are part of the actual capitalistic society we live in. But, there are also many that game the system in place and contribute nothing to society. They are a detriment to society because we have to spend tax dollars chasing them and writing and rewriting laws to deal with them....instead of investing it or giving you a tax break. Am I right?

Dr. Logic,

I do not think that a lot of them are earning their money dishonestly. There are a few Maydoffs, Sanfords and Raj's that are being prosecuted. Most people who "crashed economy" as you said, just made mistakes like a lot of us did, buying homes at ridiculous prices. They lost their jobs due to those mistakes. I have never been in mortgage finance industry, but I did see and read what went on, it was not pretty, but there were wrong assumptions all over the place.

Health Insurance for public sector is a different question. Looking at the local budgets, pension and health commitments, it is evident that public sector revenues cant fulfill those commitments. So they need to be adjusted to what we can afford.

Glass Steagal needs to be reinstated. That makes sense. Companies are expected to make money, unless they do so, we wont get out of the recession. But the tax policy needs adjustment to keep more of them here.

Beech Mechanic Post #19 & Jason (Post # 20):

To quote Beech:

"Lay off, the rich, they earned it by hard work, taking risks, and being smart about how they spent and saved. They took the equal opportunity to do something with their lives, and didn't expect "equal outcomes". Better yet, look at your Democratic Party "Heroes", like Reid, Pelosi, and Obama, they are "wealthy" as is most of your Democratic Heroes. Have they sent you a check yet??? bet not.."

Do the rich really work hard to earn their money?? LOL!! Give it a break ! If it's not stealing from the workers, then it inheriting money from Daddy along with his connections that are not available to everyone else. Then they get their tax exemptions not available to everyone, as-well- as fast entry to the top colleges due to daddy's donations without their ever doing any hard work to deserve all those benefits, other than being born into rich families. They only need satisfactory grades to enter Ivy League Colleges as done by the last Bush Pres., who graduated at the bottom of his class. And then you say they work hard for their money. Next, they invest with bad risks like Bush did in the Banking business, while his daddy backed him with more money to cover his failures. I think you need to take the "Rose Colored" glasses off to see reality more clearly. Yes, there are some that do work hard, but never with the same wages as those, who work at 3 jobs to put themselves through college without daddy's help or connections. They are the ones with the true backbone and yet, still are not wealthy, because they don't have the right connections to borrow money from Banks with low interests to start their business in spite of a good plan. And they don't have their daddy's to bankroll them as well when they do fail. The real hard workers don't steal their ideas from friends or others such as the Facebook CEO did with his college roommates. And since when do the rich save, besides cutting the workers hourly wages., laying the workers off, or firing the workers to avoid paying unemployment wages?? The equal opportunity that the elite get as compared to the poor and middle class people is no where in the same "Ball Park Playing Field". So don't try telling us that the elite work harder to earn their money.

Good points Beech Mechanic,

Our tax policy needs to compete with China (0 long term gains tax) and India (0 long term gains tax) to attract capital, especially when the growth rate is less than half.

Tax policy is not just there to confiscate wealth, it is to run basic government, while keeping the country competitive. Lot of folks lose track of that goal, while listening to politicians fueling emotional outbursts for votes.

Republicans talk a good game on taxes, but they do not have the fiscal discipline to cut spending either. Bush's prescription drug program etc are so irresponsible. I hope someone actually executes a good fiscal plan for america. At this point I will even signup for expiry of Bush tax cuts, if it comes with balanced budgets and gets country back on track.

Independent Thinker,

You made two distinct points:

1. Being Born Into Rich families - Wealth is built in multiple generations. Being a first generation immigrant, it is harder for me to get access into top programs, but if I work hard, and dig my own path, that does not stop me from making money. Some people do have an advantage, because they are born in a family that can give it to them. The way I see it is, I will work my butt off and will try to give my kid the same advantage. A better springboard for him/her to jump from. Is that wrong?

2. Stealing from friends, employees etc: Some people may choose to steal and get away with it. Each person lives with his own choices and values. Other people may do better than me, either by connection, by cheating or by hard work. But focusing on their game only distracts us from our goals and game. We should establish our own rules and just play hard. This is a long game, don't let one bad call here or a flagrant foul there, distract you from winning. Best of luck to you and I want to see you win.

Jason, if Bush's prescription drug program was so irresponsible , why did Democrats add an expensive addition ( donut hole coverage) as part of Obamacare ?

Don, that is the problem. Neither of these parties are really interested in cutting spending. Republicans pay lip-service, Democrats dont even do that, but when it comes to actual cuts, there will be a consensus that spending should not be cut, but they agree on a tax-cut in exchange for extending unemployment. We end up with trillions in debt.

There is no reason a lot of people can't be wealthy. First you have to learn how to manage your money, then learn how to invest it so it makes you more money. The average person just needs a new car, a larger TV set, etc etc.

While you are purchasing those items, I am investing that amount in good solid dividen paying stocks, and investing in tax free muni bonds, that pay at least 5% interest.

When your new car needs to be replaced, I will have earned (though investment) MORE than enough to pay cash for several cars. Hopefully some of you might realize what I am trying to say.

If you don't, I feel sorry for you (up to a point) because you will never ever do nothing but live paycheck to paycheck. People that know how to manage their money does not always live paycheck to paycheck.

Good point SallyAnn. If you buy a used car instead of new one and invest the proceedings, you will have better cashflow in future. How many of us just go for a leased new car, without thinking the long term impact. More worrying factors are this long term recession, that is taking out wealth building opportunities and policies that are inflating. Kids need to be taught how to defer gratification and wait for bigger payoff from investments

THANK YOU JASON & SALLY ANN!! A breath of Fresh Air with some simple practical & real advice.

justredd, it's not just the libs ruining this country, the conservatives have had a hand in it also. So much for your BS about it's just the libs fault.

But you are correct, not everyone will get rich, and it will not change. But how do you define rich? Are you talking just about money, or are you including the quality of life a person has?

I know people who have a whole lot of money, and a lousey lifestyle. I also know people who have modest incomes, and a wonderful lifestyle. IMO, the modest income people are the rich ones.

Really people, first thing is to get an education, then a job, and live a lifestyle that let's you save money. Then invest those savings in good quality investments. Yes, there will be ups and downs in the stock market, but the good quality stocks normally pay out their dividens in good or bad times. Reinvest those dividends, and let the stocks make you money. Don't go buying and selling right away, invest for the long term, you won't go wrong doing that.

Nobody is going to look out for you except yourself. If you can't take care of yourself, don't expect other people to help you. Some of you people think you may be entitled to some of my income. Got a NEWS FLASH for you, it ain't a going to be happening. Get your income the way I got mine, I worked, skimped, saved, and invested in the markets. I still work two jobs, the second job is for my investment money that I add to my savings from the first job.

If you people are too damn lazy to learn and then earn money, and invest it, don't come crying to me about it. It just shows you are a low informed person, and also most likely, a lazy person.

grannysue, THE IRS figures do not show them paying no taxes. Look at Peters figure below. They pay four times the effective rate of the average 50,000 k earner.

Not exactly no taxes.

According to data provided by the IRS, those who filed returns in 2009 with income in excess of $1 million paid 20% of all individual federal income tax even though they represented only 0.17% of returns filed. It seems that they are probably paying more than than their "fair share".

The IRS published the following tax rate data for 2009. It breaks down the average tax rate paid on all adjusted gross income (AGI) by various income groups. AGI includes ALL investment and dividend income.

1%: $10-20,000

2%: $20-25,000

3%: $25-30,000

4%: $30-40,000

5%: $40-50,000

7%: $50-75,000

8%: $75-100,000

12%: $100-200,000

19%: $200-500,000

24%: $500-1,000,000

25%: $1 Million and over

The deficit of 1.5 trillion is funding 50 to 60 million jobs in America. We are borrowing to spend on consumer economy. These are all service sector jobs. Google for "DEFLATIONARY CRASH" to understand why these jobs cannot be sustained. We need manufacturing jobs, science, engineering and technology jobs. Service sector jobs are not able to help curb trade deficit. It is a dead end. Keynesians are dead wrong about it. At the end of the day, they won't be able to spend to stimulate the economy. Once their hand is forced, the crash will be unlike anything we have ever witnessed. We need to let the free markets run so that private sector can align itself with what works and what does not. FED is giving the wrong signals to the economy and it is creating wrong kind of jobs. These jobs won't survive the next leg down.