Law degree loses luster amid weak economy, globalization

Steven Senne / AP file

These 2012 Harvard law school graduates likely face solid prospects, but that is not as true for many newly minted lawyers.

Lawyers have sometimes taken a ribbing for what they do, but until recently few questioned why they do it: For the good pay and job security.

You can’t necessarily count on either of those things anymore.

The weak economy, globalization and technological advances have dramatically changed the legal industry, and experts say that's leaving a glut of lawyers coming out of school with massive student loans, high hopes and few job prospects.

“There’s kind of an over-optimism that feeds the law school market,” said William Henderson, director of the Center on the Global Legal Profession at Indiana University’s Maurer School of Law.

The National Association of Law Professionals reported last week the overall employment rate for class of 2011 law school graduates was the worst since 1994, with 85.6 percent of the 41,623 graduates holding a job nine months after graduation.

That may seem like a lot, but it turns out that many of those people don’t have the type of job that might expect after spending so much time and money on a law degree.

A year after getting their degrees only about 65 percent of last year’s law school graduates had a job that required them to have passed the bar, the association found. What’s more, nearly 10 percent were still looking for any job at all.

The longer-term prognosis isn’t so great, either. The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects that employment of lawyers will grow by only 10 percent between 2010 and 2020, while overall jobs are expected to grow by 14 percent.

The declining prospects come as more and more law firms, and their corporate clients, discover what manufacturers figured out a long time ago: Sometimes it’s cheaper to outsource your work. Experts say many companies now rely on cheaper legal minds in India, the Philippines and elsewhere.

Related: Storied law firm folds after partners flee

“Simple tasks like document review … can now be done in these offshore markets at much lower price points,” said James Leipold, executive director of the National Association of Law Professionals.

Some companies and law firms also are using more contract or temporary workers who cost a lot less than young associates and have little chance of being hired permanently.

The weak economy also has played a role. When companies started to see profits decline at the start of the recession, many took a hard look at their legal expenses and found areas where they could trim fat. Among other things, they told law firms they were no longer willing to pay high hourly rates for the work of young, inexperienced associates.

Henderson, the law professor, said there is also a crop of new legal entrepreneurs who are using technology to do legal work that was once done by hand, at higher cost and with more mistakes.

Those changes mean that big law firms don’t need as many young law school grads. That’s leaving a lot of young lawyers stuck in dead-end, entry-level or less lucrative jobs, or not practicing law at all.

Stephanie Tricomi graduated from Roger Williams University’s law school in 2006 with high hopes that she and her husband, also a law school graduate, would use their degrees for long and lucrative legal careers.

The couple moved from Rhode Island to Florida, she passed the bar exam and was quickly hired as a clerk for trial court judges.

She figured she would do that for a couple years and then move on to a big firm or her own practice, and a fatter paycheck.

“I thought, OK, well, this is a great starting point,” said Tricomi, now 31.

Her husband, meanwhile, thought he would start a career in real estate law, but then the housing market went bust. He ended up deciding to teach high school literature.

In late 2008, Tricomi began looking for a new job but found that few were available. Then, in early 2009, her husband was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer. After a long and costly battle, he died in May 2011.

Six years after graduating from law school, Tricomi is still working as a law clerk, earning about $45,000 a year. She hasn’t had a raise since she started because of a pay freeze, and her own office hasn’t hired anyone since they brought her on.

Tricomi likes her job but she’d like to advance her career. So far, however, she hasn’t had luck finding another job.

Meanwhile, she’s grappling with about $80,000 in student loan debt. She said she gave little thought to the debt she was taking on when she started law school, thinking at the time that her lucrative career would make the loans more than worthwhile.

“You think, oh, well, that’s not that bad. When I come out, I’ll be making $100,000 at least,” she said.

Between regular bills and student loan payments, Tricomi is living paycheck to paycheck. That’s not what most people think when they hear what she does.

“Even now, when I tell people I’m an attorney they say, ‘Oh, you must be rich,’” Tricomi said. “That’s the assumption.”

Some critics blame law schools for the glut of lawyers, arguing they paint too rosy of a picture of life after law school to recruit more students.

The American Bar Association recently made changes aimed at giving a more accurate picture of the market for law school graduates, and how many are really taking home fat paychecks.

The changes come in the wake of harsh criticism from groups such as Law School Transparency. They have argued that law schools have distorted the numbers by hiring grads for a short period of time to bulk up employment numbers, for example, or only including the small sample who responded when reporting stellar average starting salaries.

“Everyone is saying, ‘Oh, law school is a great investment. It’ll be a way to make a lot of money,’” said Kyle McEntee, executive director of Law School Transparency. “It turns out that wasn’t actually true.”

McEntee, who graduated from Vanderbilt Law School in 2011, actually started the project before it became apparent just how tight the job market was going to get for lawyers. He says he doesn’t want to keep people from going to law school; he just wants them to go in with their eyes open.

“My goal is not to scare people away,” he said. “I just so happen to think that the informed decision is, don’t go.”

Leipold, of the lawyer’s association, thinks it’s possible that the class of 2011 represented the worst of things, and that job prospects will slowly start to improve. But he also said that some of the changes in the legal profession are likely permanent.

“I don’t expect a dramatic turnaround,” he said.

Already, there are signs that some are souring on the prospect of going to law school.

The number of people taking the LSAT, the test required for law school admission, has fallen sharply in each of the past two academic years. A total of 129,958 people took the LSAT in the 2011-2012 academic year, according to the Law School Admission Council.

That’s the lowest number in a decade.

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I never seriously considered law as a career; Didn't want to be known as that type of person.We have too many lawyers in the US anyhow...

  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:52 PM EDT

blah

    #1.1 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:03 PM EDT

    Hopefully that will mean less parasitic ambulance chasing lawyers running around.

    • 3 votes
    #1.2 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:13 PM EDT

    @ kfilly: Lawyers don't sue, clients do. They only provide a service because the average person cannot do it themselves. We live in a very litigious society where people will sue at the slightest offense.

    • 7 votes
    #1.3 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:12 PM EDT

    If there weren't so many lawyers around, there wouldn't be desperate lawyers out there who will take any case; Hugh is right.

    • 3 votes
    #1.4 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:59 PM EDT

    Yeah sure, forget the law degree, and get one of today's, really useful degrees like "communications"or "international studies"....what an utterly stupid article.

      #1.5 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:07 PM EDT

      You'll kiss the whole class's ass when the police decide to trample you just for fun - and there's no shortage of mailicious cops.

      • 2 votes
      #1.6 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:33 AM EDT

      I am really sick of all the "all lawyers are shysters" crap. For every jerk who decides to sue someone, and finds a bottom-feeder attorney to do it, there's someone on the other side who's in real trouble, and someone defending him who's doing some real good. There are lawyers who draft contracts, and who review contracts for loopholes, without whom we'd have major problems with commerce. There are lawyers in the court system, and elsewhere in government, who work really hard at work that really does need doing. Even on the plaintiffs' side, some people really are hurt in some way, and really do have no other way to be made whole.

      Bag on the scumbag plaintiffs' attorneys all you want, but if you're going to attack the profession as a whole, you have to make arguments against all the other kinds of lawyers as well. No one can, because most are ethical and hard-working, and society can't function without them.

      • 6 votes
      #1.7 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:36 AM EDT

      I blame John Grisham

      • 1 vote
      #1.8 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:46 AM EDT

      We're supposed to feel bad because a bunch of parasites can't find hosts to feed on?

        #1.9 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:15 AM EDT

        Some lawyers are needed, but overall, they are the friction in society. The US has always boasted something like 20x Japan's rate of lawyers. Lawyers are responsible for 44 pages of nonsense whenever you download a song or software from iTunes.

        • 2 votes
        #1.10 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:07 AM EDT

        I graduated from Loyola U Chicago in 2002 and have never worked as a lawyer and I still think it was worth it, having been in and around investment banking since that time. I had a "not so great" 1st year and finished around a 3.0 in the night program...did have a good opportunity with a great firm that I worked my way into....but the practice of law was not for me. What to do? I went to the CME for $7.50/hour as a clerk and I used what law school taught me...critical thinking, integrity and analytical skills... to build a great career from there: It's all about what you make of it! Would I do it again? I don't know, but I am glad I did it. I always tell people my experience and thoughts are these: if you aren't really sure what you want to do in life, you can't go wrong with law school....people will give you a chance to hang yourself in just about any career you care to pursue because your "the lawyer" on their staff. Are you entrepeneurial? Go to law school. You wanna be Matlock and that's it? Don't go unless you get into Harvard or Yale. Btw, by taking that $7.50/hr job at the CME I have made FAR MORE money than my former classmates....and had a great time doing it!

          #1.11 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:06 AM EDT

          I graduated in the late 60's, there were 52 in my class, today the same school graduated 400; the computer has changed the practice of law; research is done by the big firms by farming it out, mostly to India; starting out as a research assistant and then moving up to billable hours is no longer the career; the solo practice lawyer is a dinosaur, the large factory firms now control the legal field.

            #1.12 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:52 AM EDT

            They only reason you need a lawyer is to protect yourself from the other guy's lawyer. Its a protection racket.

              #1.13 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:07 PM EDT
              Reply

              Six years after graduating from law school, Tricomi is still working as a law clerk, earning about $45,000 a year. She hasn’t had a raise since she started because of a pay freeze, and her own office hasn’t hired anyone since they brought her on.

              Tricomi likes her job but she’d like to advance her career. So far, however, she hasn’t had luck finding another job.

              Meanwhile, she’s grappling with about $80,000 in student loan debt. She said she gave little thought to the debt she was taking on when she started law school, thinking at the time that her lucrative career would make the loans more than worthwhile.

              “You think, oh, well, that’s not that bad. When I come out, I’ll be making $100,000 at least,” she said.

              Between regular bills and student loan payments, Tricomi is living paycheck to paycheck. That’s not what most people think when they hear what she does.

              This is what you get when greedy colleges and banks are allowed to advertise college education as a guaranteed path to prosperity.

              • 14 votes
              Reply#2 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:04 PM EDT

              The answer to student loan debt is the IBR. I have $100k is student loan debt, all of it law school and accrued interest, but under the IBR, my payments are $0 because my income is too low. I am a solo attorney, definitely not getting rich, but barely getting by. I don't advise anyone to go to law school.

                #2.1 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:32 AM EDT
                Reply

                There is always a job in politics and lobbying! Great pay and benefits package!

                • 4 votes
                Reply#3 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:06 PM EDT

                Contract managers are usually in demand, I know quite a few lawyers that have gone into this field, as the work is somewhat related. Not ideal, I'm sure, for those that wanted to strictly do law, but better than nothing.

                  Reply#4 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:08 PM EDT

                  McEntee, who graduated from Vanderbilt Law School in 2011, actually started the project before it became apparent just how much tight the job market was going to get for lawyers.

                  How much tight!? Sheesh I have already identified some fat that msnbc needs to trim=stupid reporters.

                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#5 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:09 PM EDT

                  Maybe replace them with out-of-work attorneys. Of course, much of the writing I've seen from even highly regarded lawyers is no better...

                    #5.1 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:38 AM EDT

                    Thanks for pointing out the typo - it's fixed now.

                      #5.2 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:23 AM EDT
                      Reply

                      The government should stop guaranteeing student loans for law school. Let the schools themselves -- not the taxpayers -- take the risk that their students won't ever earn enough to pay them off. Make law school loans (in fact, all student loans) dischargeable in bankruptcy like all other consumer debt. At least half the law schools in the country should close down, and the remaining half should reduce their fees by at least 50% -- and market forces would cause that to happen if those loan reforms were enacted.

                      Law professors are grotesquely overpaid and underworked compared with other academics. They do an abysmal job of training lawyers, because most of them never actually practiced law. And their published "scholarship" is mostly worthless musing which no one ever reads.

                      • 4 votes
                      Reply#6 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:10 PM EDT

                      The loans are mostly guaranteed by the federal government so if they forgive student loans in any way then the people who didn't go to college will end up paying for those who did. If the college grads of today are so smart why do they start their careers deep in debt? When I went to college my parents paid for my tuition and I worked and paid for everything else. It took an extra year because I didn't want to borrow money and when I graduated I had no debts. The younger generation seems to think they deserve everything without pain or sacrifice.

                      • 1 vote
                      #6.1 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:10 PM EDT

                      So somehow having mommy and daddy pay your tuition is completely deserved without pain and sacrifice because you payed for your own apartment like every other college student I know? Hate to tell you this but for many people their parents can't afford the tuition, they're already struggling to pay for their apartment and car and the loans are a necessary evil just to be able to go. Have you looked at the cost of tuition lately? That's why so many start in debt and good luck paying for your own kids when the time comes. Seems common sense why so many end up in debt but then my parents were too poor to afford 15k a year for just a state school.

                      • 4 votes
                      #6.2 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:12 PM EDT

                      They should also probably stop guarteeing other degrees like art history that rarely show any positive ROI. However, the system is set up to allow students to make their own decisions based on their personal goals. I get feedup with people who whine about their student loans (and mortgages). You knew what debt you were taking on when you signed the papers. It is just buyers' remorse. The situation with law schools is not knew. If you didn't go a top school and get in the top tier of your class (or where well-connected), finding a good job was a crapshot. Many law school grads I know are doing jobs like tech support or hourly public defender gigs.

                        #6.3 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:35 AM EDT
                        Reply

                        Another reason is that when people are poorer the more likely they are to be "judgement proof" and that renders a lawsuit worthless.

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#7 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:12 PM EDT

                        Clapton, shut them all down for ten years until the herd is thinned out. No lawyers can run for congress. All you have to do is look and see how badly they have screwed up the house and senate.

                        • 7 votes
                        Reply#8 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:15 PM EDT

                        I was at a cocktail party recently, and spoke with a guy who is a newly minted attorney. He was telling me about the $100k he has in debt, and how he and his wife want kids and to buy a home, but they just can't do it...They can't afford the rent they are paying. He told me that he recently went into an a popular chain restaurant, and saw a woman that had graduated law school with him working as a hostess...He told me he is little more than a glorified paralegal, trying to make 60 billable hours a week. I make more than he does, and I just have a Bachelors. I'm glad I spoke with several attorneys before I got set up with all that additional debt. I don't care what they say, education is good debt my tail...No debt is good!

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#9 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:17 PM EDT

                        Am I supposed to feel sorry for this segment of the population? Because honestly, I don't.

                        • 14 votes
                        Reply#10 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:18 PM EDT

                        This "segment of the population" is, by and large, a cohort of kids who worked hard and got good grades in college -- having been conditioned to believe that that is the key to a middle class life -- and fell for the fraudulent statistics that law schools have been touting for years regarding their graduates' employment and salaries. Their only mistake was believing what apparently-reputable law school professors and administrators told them. And now they have cripppling loans, bigger than many people's mortgages, which are non-dischargeable. They'll never be able to pay the loans off, because (for reasons totally out of their control) there aren't nearly enough lawyer jobs that pay enough to service the debt, and never will be. They'll owe these loans until they die. Their lives are ruined. And lots of people like you will just sneer at them.

                        • 6 votes
                        #10.1 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:17 PM EDT

                        They didn`t go to law school for a middle class existance. They went to law school for an upper middle class/lower rich class existance making mid-range six figure incomes.

                        • 6 votes
                        #10.2 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:42 PM EDT

                        Well, whatever they were hoping for or led to expect, a lot of them are looking at a lifetime of crushing debt instead.

                        • 2 votes
                        #10.3 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:06 PM EDT

                        Clapton, Maybe they should have been born to smarter parents who would counsel them on their decisions. Maybe they need to suck it up and live with their decisions. Hopefully they won't be able to afford to have children and they won't pass on the defective thinking genes to another generation.

                        • 2 votes
                        #10.4 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:14 PM EDT

                        In reply to commonsenseaintcommon:

                        My husband is a very intelligent, very kind person who went into law to help others in need, NOT to make six figures. During law school (at which time he was also working a full time computer programming job) he volunteered at an organization that provided free legal help to poor individuals and families. He continued to use his undergrad degree in computer science even after receiving his degree and passing the bar because there are simply not enough attorney jobs in his areas of interest. But you'll be happy to know that he plans to use his "defective thinking genes" to not only wisely guide our children into other fields when they go to college someday, but also to teach them to be kind and tolerant to other people, even those who belittle our choices when good intentions turn into seemingly "deserved" disappointments.

                        • 5 votes
                        #10.5 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:44 PM EDT

                        Good for him, a rarity in lawyers, an honest one.

                        • 1 vote
                        #10.6 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:48 PM EDT

                        Melissa F - I am not a lawyer but a programmer for almost 25 years. I think lawyers should consider programming. Lawyers are a logical bunch and would probably do well in this field. Also the future for programmers is very good.

                          #10.7 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:41 AM EDT

                          . Also the future for programmers is very good.

                          ... if you consider sitting at a desk writing code all day (and often all night too) as something very good.

                          Look, a few of my friends are big shots in the software engineering world and, to be totally upfront with you, I don't envy them at all.

                          Day in, day out, when they aren't coding, they are in meetings planning what they are going to spend the next of all of their waking hours coding until their next meeting.

                          I considered programming professionally, even got a bit of education under my belt for that purpose, but money or not, being a code-monkey is right at the top of my list of rotten jobs that might make you rich, but will probably just make you a sleep/sunlight/social-interaction deprived depression jockey.

                            #10.8 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:56 AM EDT

                            Clapton, if you'd ever had to deal with one of these parasites then you'd know why they are so hated.

                              #10.9 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:23 AM EDT
                              Reply

                              Oh what a shame. All their frivilous lawsuits are catching up to them.

                              • 4 votes
                              Reply#11 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:23 PM EDT

                              That makes no sense whatsoever. I mean, at all.

                              An unemployed freshly graduated law-student isn't filing any lawsuits; has likely never filed a lawsuit of any kind.

                              The guys that file all the "frivolous" lawsuits? They are likely are knee deep in cash; which is why they filed all those lawsuits.

                              Then again, I'm kind of getting the white supremacist vibe off your post history, so in your mind I imagine Brown v. Board of Education was possibly a frivolous lawsuit.

                              All kind of people working the law-school angle; some good, some bad. Just like every other group.

                              • 1 vote
                              #11.1 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:04 AM EDT
                              Reply

                              Here's the funny thing. In 1840's America, we were having the exact same conversation. Because of a bad economy, legal advocates said there were too many lawyers and things would not get better. France and Prussia in the late 1700's actually abolished their legal system because of the supposed gluttony of attorney's.

                              My response is "you should go to law school", but only for the right reasons. Money, like in any other profession, should not be one of those reasons. What the article leaves out is that Tricomi, if she received a government loan, will have several flexible options of re-payment. She can make monthly payments based on her income and, if she works in the public sector for at least ten years doing public service or non-profit, a good chunk of her loan will be forgiven.

                              I'm a law grad studying for the bar. I was not in the top of my class, but going to work for a small firm. I have a lot of student loans, but I am happy. I chose the place because the guy I work for is extremely nice, there are no minimum "billable hours" and there will be good partnership opportunities. Law is a business, like any other field. Networking is very important.

                              My advice for someone thinking of law school is this: don't let anyone convince you not to go, but do think carefully. Some areas of law are dry, but some are also very exciting. Don't do it for the money though. It is very unrealistic for anyone to really make a lot of money directly coming out of school. But, compared with other careers, you will eclipse most people (based on average salary) down the road if you use your degree.

                              • 7 votes
                              Reply#12 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:25 PM EDT

                              Dude, you still have to get a job in public service to get those loans waived and guess what, "THERE ARE NO JOBS THERE EITHER!!!". I hate to tell you but your job sounds too good to be true, I am guesing you are out on your butt in a few years because you aren't producing billable hours or making less than if you had just gotten your BA and run to the jobmarket. BTW, NO most lawyers DO NOT eclipse a lot of other fields. heck, I opted for computer geek land instead of law school like I wanted to do and I made $10k per annum more than lawyers starting at my employer, I top out way higher and I have no debt. You haven't even passed the bar yet and are acting like a know it all, give me a break. Good luck buddy, you are going to need it in your future life of poverty. Signed, a member of the 1% (and not a lawyer)....

                              • 3 votes
                              #12.1 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:09 PM EDT

                              Chris,

                              Attorneys in public service start out around 45k to 50k. Private sector typically starts at 60k, unless you start at a big firm. These are not my opinions, but averages.

                              If you want to get down to "individuals", there are attorney's who start their own firms who make over half a million a year. But, most experienced attorneys in the private sector make close to 100k. The average salary in this country is around 45--50k. Again, these are averages. So yes, most attorney's do make more than most fields. But, it is NOT the hordes of cash that people make it out to be.

                              If you feel my story is too good to be true, you don't have to believe it if you don't want to. Not entirely sure why some person's story would anger you though. Are you upset that someone enjoyed his time at law school and is not echoing the bandwagon of "don't go to law school?" Are you upset because, somehow, I have a job that I enjoy? A positive attitude can sometimes go a long way.

                              I went to law school because I want to help some people. I didn't go for the money or to become rich. There are not too many occupations where you can make decent money and are able to really help people you represent. If you entered your job for the money, or to be in the 1%, then congratulations. I am happy for you. :-)

                              BTW, you can get a public service job if you really want to. I had thought about working at the DA's office. But, I never said obtaining anything was going to be easy.

                              • 4 votes
                              #12.2 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:27 PM EDT

                              She makes $45k while the average taxpayer makes $32k. Pardon me if I don't feel sorry for this wannabe parasite.

                              • 1 vote
                              #12.3 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:27 AM EDT

                              I'm going to echo Andrew's comment.

                              I am also a law school grad. I don't regret going. I am licensed though I do not practice law as part of my job. I happen to hold another advanced degree and found that a career that mixed elements of the two would be most interesting to me.

                              I did not graduate at the top of my class, but I got my dream job.
                              I work for the top company in my industry doing exactly what I want to do. I make well above the average salary for an attorney in private practice (for those who feel salary must be indicated). My legal background is invaluable to my employer, and since hiring me (their first attorney), they have hired several more attorneys into our group. I am salaried and work about 38-41 hours per week. My job is incredibly fulfilling as I can truly say I am improving people's lives with my work.

                              Law school can be worthwhile, but you have to get into a good one. You also have to know what you want to get out of it and how to network to get yourself there. Don't go in with any illusions. Those of my friends who make the 'big firm' salaries pay for it with their lives. Some of them love it, some of them hate it. Not everyone gets the big firm job. Be realistic of what you're capable of and where you'd actually end up - it's a highly competitive market.

                              • 1 vote
                              #12.4 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:05 AM EDT
                              Reply

                              In terms of job opportunities, law is one of the worst fields to go into. The cost of the degree simply is not worth it. The internships that get law students the big break which springboards them into a good job with a good firm simply are not there. The internships that are there do not pay what they used to pay, and are most likely closed to those candidates who do not have the best connections or last name.

                              If you are serious about a law career, expect to grind out a number of years at a firm that's not where you imagined to be working. Build a reputation as a bulldog along the way. Then go into private practice. If you're looking for a career where you can spend all kinds of time at the golf course or yacht club and take six vacations a year, don't become a lawyer.

                              • 2 votes
                              Reply#13 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:27 PM EDT

                              Hire an attorney to represent you in one small matter, then compare the expense of law school. One case is generally the cost.

                                #13.1 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:33 PM EDT

                                They really do try to hold you hostage as much as the system does.

                                • 1 vote
                                #13.2 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:04 PM EDT

                                no go to www.the-team.biz/39906109

                                  #13.3 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:26 PM EDT
                                  Reply

                                  The declining prospects come as more and more law firms, and their corporate clients, discover what manufacturers figured out a long time ago: Sometimes it’s cheaper to outsource your work. Experts say many companies now rely on cheaper legal minds in India, the Philippines and elsewhere.

                                  Am I the only one that seethes when i see lines like this? Where are our politicians and why are they not putting rules in place to make sure these corps are paying their fair share. Products (be able to see the light of day in the US unless they're either produced here or heavily tariffed because they're taking advantage of our resources and infrastructure without paying for it.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  Reply#14 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:29 PM EDT

                                  When is the government going to step up to the plate and make sure that itgranny pays her fair share?

                                    #14.1 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:30 AM EDT

                                    I paid about 8000 times as much as general Electric last year. and my paychecks were a hell of a lot smaller.

                                      #14.2 - Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:43 AM EDT
                                      Reply

                                      Law school, traditionally, was the primary method of making certain that the lawyer was not screwed by society, business partners and neighbors. Law school became a bread basket sometime after WW2, and was perverted in its social benefit.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      Reply#15 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:32 PM EDT

                                      When I graduated in 1991 the State Bar of Michigan conducted a poll-at that time almost 50% of the lawyers said they would rather not be practicing law. I was actually interviewed for the report and my comment was that "the cost of law school did not warrant the job income at that time and I saw little to change in the future''. I was right, most of my fellow graduates at that time never went into the practice of law and went back to their professions prior to lawschool such as selling used cars, teaching and woking as secretaries. I myself could not find a job at an established firm and had to hang out my own shingle as a sole practitioner. After making the commencement speach at my law school graduation the Dean approached me and told me he had just returned from a graduation of a fellow Dean in Boston and his comments to the graduates were that "he wished them good luck at their new profession and in finding work OUT OF STATE". It seems that the placement office had instructed him that there was not one job listed in the entire Boston area that year and if they wanted to work they had to leave the state. I struggled for 5 years making 20K per year and working 100 hour work weeks and not even getting to know my new family when I called it quits and went back to managing construction projects at 3 to 4 times the salary. After managing a successful billion dollar project I was courted by one of Michigan's largest law firms. Real silk stocking place and finally given a reliable pay raise salary and bonus plan. What I wasn't prepared for was the gross unethical practices, the incompetence of the fellow attorneys and the fact that at the end of the year they decided to steal my entire $25,000 overtime payment with only a snide comment that "they did it because they could!" Bottomline is that you can no longer make a living as an attorney and the firms that are out there are deserving of every bad lawyer joke in the industry. The worst thing that new graduates of law school will find and no one tells them is that with that degree they are no longer able to drop back to their older professions. Companies do not want to hire attorneys for multiple reasons- "they can no longer be trusted", "they are too smart", "they can't be fired because they will sue", .etc., etc., etc. Welcome to the world new graduates with higher than ever student loans and a non existant job market. Biggest mistake of my life was going to law school and doing it on loans! economically I will never get ahead.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      Reply#16 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:32 PM EDT

                                      You said you went to law school and went back into construction management, so how can you say that you could not go back to your old job?

                                        #16.1 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:07 PM EDT
                                        Reply

                                        Law degrees were losing their luster even before the crash because of lawyers.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        Reply#17 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:36 PM EDT

                                        So much for the idea that once you earn a law degree, the wheelbarrow of cash just shows up at your doorstep. If that is why you decide to become a lawyer, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. It's like every other career. You invest in education and give away your personal life to learn the ropes. After you become competent, learn to market yourself and clients gain confidence, then you see the value of your degree. There is no magic and no shortcuts. Success in law requires preparation, hard work and diligence, just like every other career. There is no panacea. So find something you love to do and do it.

                                          Reply#18 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:42 PM EDT

                                          I 100% agree with you, Rick. I am currently in law school and fully aware of the meager prospects that await upon graduation. However, a law degree supplemented with determination, creativity, and relentlessness will eventually render the desired result. It's only an average or depressing career if you let it be! A JD is one of the most versatile higher degrees one can obtain... where are the articles discouraging kids from going to get a masters in 1800 European literature and the like?!

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #18.1 - Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:41 PM EDT
                                          Reply

                                          I recently read about a law firm that was offering it's beginning lawyers $10K a year. That's a hoot. Goes to show you what goes around comes around - there are too many lawyers in this country. Every kid thinks they're gonna make the big bucks being a lawyer but the market is saturated. Why do you think we have all the frivilous lawsuits - too darn many lawyers! Its not as prestigious as it once was because, as with teachers - the quality of the profession has bottomed out. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can go to law school - big deal!

                                          • 4 votes
                                          Reply#19 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:43 PM EDT

                                          @Judy: Perhaps "everyone" can go to law school, but not "everyone" can be successful. There are still some good lawyers out there. I was one of them for many years until I decided I wanted to help change the profession.

                                            #19.1 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:48 PM EDT
                                            Reply

                                            Whenever they have a story about an unfortunate unemployed or underemployed law school grad its usually someone that went to a tier 3 or tier 4 school. I'd like to hear more stories about those that went to top schools.. ie., the commenter whose relative went to William and Mary and how well he/she did academically. There's no doubt that the legal market is shrinking, but perhaps its just trimming out the huge population that went to law school thinking 'anyone' could be a lawyer.

                                              Reply#20 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:44 PM EDT

                                              Read the article again, that is exactly what it is about. No law school for you, you don't have the research skills....

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #20.1 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:13 PM EDT

                                              Er...pot to kettle: you're black. I believe Xiamay wants to hear stories from commenters from 2nd the top tier law schools; She was not refering to ths personal stories in the article itself.

                                                #20.2 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:02 PM EDT

                                                few people has enough assets to make litigation profitable. We have made corporations virtually off limits (can't afford to damage the economy-i.e. the wealthy top tier of executives), and people can't afford to buy or sell. Naturally the legal profession is hurting.

                                                  #20.3 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:20 PM EDT
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