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Subscribe to RSSIf you want to get a job in this economy, it's becoming increasingly clear that you better also be thinking about getting an education beyond just a high school degree.
The government reported Friday that the unemployment rate for college graduates fell slightly in May, to 3.9 percent from 4 percent a month earlier.
For people with just a high school degree, the unemployment rate increased to 8.1 percent, from 7.9 percent a month earlier.
The overall unemployment rate was 8.2 percent in May, the Bureau of Labor Statistics said. That reflects even higher rates of unemployment among those who don’t even have a high school degree.
In general, it’s long been the case that people with a college degree have an easier time finding a job, and make more money, than those who have just a high school degree. But in the past year or so, as the job market has improved slowly and in fits and starts, the gap between education levels has become especially stark.
That’s a trend that experts expect to continue as the job market increasingly comes to rely on more skilled workers and has fewer options for people with just a high school degree.
“We’re not creating jobs in that arena, period,” said Diane Swonk, chief economist at Mesirow Financial.
The number of college graduates who are employed increased by about 1.5 million in the past year, to nearly 46.4 million people as of May, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The number of people who just have a high school degree and are employed has actually fallen very slightly, to 33.9 million people, the government data shows.
The trends in the employment data aren’t surprising to Jack Downing, a managing partner with the job placement firm MRINetwork WorldBridge Partners.
In the past six months or so, Downing said he’s started to see such high demand for college graduates, particularly in fields such as engineering and information technology, that some candidates are fielding multiple job offers.
That’s a situation he said he and his partners hadn’t encountered in three years, and that is catching picky employers off guard.
On the other hand, Downing said, he’s finding that the job search is much tougher for people with just a high school degree, particularly if they’ve had a long bout of unemployment and may face the perception that their skills and experience are out of date.
Downing said one problem for people without an advanced education is that low-skilled jobs are increasingly moving overseas or being consolidated.
Another issue is that employers are increasingly asking for candidates with a college degree even for jobs that might once not have had that requirement.
“They have an option now, so they’re going to take somebody with a college education over somebody that’s not (got a degree),” Downing said. “It shows a commitment to themselves. It shows that they can learn, and most likely are going to be committed to career development.”
Downing doesn’t expect the preference for more educated workers to change, even if the economy starts to improve more quickly and more jobs become available.
Still, college isn’t for everyone, and Swonk said the changing job market does have options for people who don’t want to get a four-year degree. She said there is high demand for people who have done certain shorter-term, specialized training in trades like welding, or in fields such as aerospace.
The key is making sure you get trained in a field where there is demand for workers.
“You need, minimally, some kind of an education to get a job,” she said. “The question is, are you getting the right education?”
The unemployment rate for people with some college or an associate’s degree was 7.9 percent in May, slightly lower than for people with less education.
Of course, in this economy even people with a college degree are finding the job market difficult, and that’s particularly true if they are fresh out of college. The unemployment for younger workers is generally higher than for older workers, and many are struggling with high student loan debt loads.
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This article is really misleading. The statistic relates to college graduates already employed versus only high school educated already employed yet he then goes on to discuss job prospects for current graduates in selct fields including engineering, my field. I can tell you firsthand multiple job offers are just not there. While this article might make you feel good for a brief moment, that is all it is good for.
What kind of engineering, civil or something that mostly government hires. If you have electrical engineering you actually do get multiple job offers... assuming you are willing to relocate to one of the major tech areas. The company I work for has a hard time finding a graduate that does not need a H1B visa sponsor. Only takes a little searching of dice or monster to find them. Pretty much anything related to the cell phone industry is hot now and it is unlikely to decline. People will give up everything else before they cancel their cell phone plan.
After high school, both of my sons went to college; Barber College.
They both went into business together and are doing great. The point is you don't have to put yourself deep in debt to get a decent paying job or career.
Degree's are only good if you're applying in that field, companies won't hire a person just because they may have a degree, they know when the economy gets better these people will move on, that is why there is such a thing as over educated, I've been turned down many times because of it ......
The problem is that college tuition is going up at about 8 times the rate of inflation. At the same time, student financial aid is being cut.
We need to decide if we really believe in opportunity for all - or just for the rich.
While it is true that a job is easier to find if you have a college degree, there are also a lot of jobs out there for non-college grads who have a skill. For those not inclined towards college they need to get into some type of apprenticeship or vocational training program. There are a lot of jobs out there for welders, plumbers, electricians, etc. if they have the training and are licensed. There will always be a need in our society for people who work in the trades, so pushing everyone towards college is not the answer. Some people are just not cut out for college and do better in skilled jobs where they work with their hands.
Not trying to be obtuse but my two best employee's have no College. My Sr. Network Engineer is ex Navy, College for Corporate America is normal because HR is too lazy to think outside the Box and use common sense.
IT jobs are still in the top 10 most needed jobs. Where I work we've been looking for another Jr Linux admin for several months. I'm a Sr Linux admin and I'm still getting leads in my email for jobs that haven't been filled yet for those roles. DBAs are even higher in demand. To have both is incredibly useful right now.
Younger enlisted and junior officers make great employees in almost any field for which they're qualified, and even some they aren't. They can learn, have the discipline to direct themselves, and are team players. They look at a problem and think, "How can I make this work?" not "How can I get out of doing it?"
Totally lazy, but this goes way beyond HR. Corporations themselves want someone with the exact specifications of a job. Skills that only the person who held that job before could possibly have because they are too lazy to train people with the underlying ability but not the specific skillset. Then they whine about not finding the right people.
Some of us don't have the luxury of spending years in college when we have expenses that have to be taken care of right away.
(Ohai medical and dental bills!)
So as much as I might like to finish up my Associate's (Mechanical Design), the expense isn't worth it right now.
The article is really trying to get across the point that something beyond a high school education is needed whether it be college, trade, etc. Even for the people mentioning ex-military - those folks are getting further education and training in the military than those that simply get a HS degree, and they are proving themselves. The bottom line is that those with only a high school degree need to do something beyond what was simply required of them - even if it is just a series of training classes in a field they are interested in.
I am a receptionist at a high end law firm, I wouldnt have even been looked at if I didnt have my bachelors - and that's just to be a receptionist! While some fields may be more open to those without a continued education background, it seems more and more now like some form of additional education past high school is required to get a good job. My friend got her bachelors and took a couple years off to be a mom, now trying to enter the work force she's having a really hard time and that's just from not working for a couple years (despite having her degree). It's tough; good luck to those looking for jobs!
“They have an option now, so they’re going to take somebody with a college education over somebody that’s not (got a degree),” Downing said. “It shows a commitment to themselves. It shows that they can learn, and most likely are going to be committed to career development.”
As in most cases, the 'cream' rises to the top.
Let's say a high school student likes to cook. They can got to a tech school or to a culinary school for further training, or they can apprentice at restaurants that fit their criteria and build a resume. The issue is that even if they are pretty darn good, college or not, being a chef outside the stars, pays less than the average wage. So a pastry chef out of school isn't going to make much more money than somebody with learned skills.
For the most part, we are talking about a skill level that regardless of education cannot be denied in some cases and that person will do fine.
I live in and work around college students. The degrees most are working towards are social work, art history, English, political science. These degree programs will NOT get many a job. They might get a foot in the door for a job that once went to somebody with zero college. I know lots of kids with degrees that are making 10/hr. That is not success IMO when you consider the cost of their education and the bills they are now dealing with.
It is skill level, regardless of degree, and knowledge in the right fields. Way too many have neither.
So if someone absolutely needs a job to support themselves through school, but nobody will hire them until they've been through school, what's a person supposed to do?
I just read an article about how hard it is for generation Y to find jobs and how much trouble they are in compared to their parents. The first paragraph sums up the problem:
"They are perhaps the best-educated generation ever, but they can't find jobs. Many face staggering college loans and have moved back in with their parents. Even worse, their difficulty in getting careers launched could set them back financially for years."
Entire population is awash in debt! That is the problem. Current debt levels are still huge compared to GDP. History shows debt to GDP ratio will snap back to the mean. This makes a case for deflation to continue. Here is our excessive debt problem:
www.tradingstocks.net/html/inflation_deflation_credit_bub.html
Given that the bank credit that was inflated for 50 years is deflating now. This magnitude of a bubble does not deflate in a year, it will take some time.
The problem is that all of the prices we see around were based on borrowed money. Almost all of our money supply is bank credit. There is expectation that this will be paid back with interest. So if there is 60 trillion borrowed, then let's say we are supposed to pay back 100 trillion. Of course 100 trillion does not even exist yet, but with future borrowing it could. However, when borrowing stops, all of these expectations become impossible to realize. Here is how banks create money:
www.tradingstocks.net/html/banks_create_money.html
To make the long story short, when banks stop creating money, deflation starts. That shrinks the money supply. For example 60 trillion becomes 30 trillion. When there is half the amount of money in the economy, it is natural to expect that prices and salaries become half as well. Austrian School of Economics thinks this is unavoidable in a monetary system that is based on bank credit.
The economic cycles or business cycles such as Kondratieff Wave are created by the herding behaviour of the people. When Kondratiev Winter ends and spring starts, people look at each other and start expanding their businesses and investments just because others are doing so. Credit supply increases dramatically. Then expansion levels out and that is Kondratiev summer.This brings prosperity. Then the bill comes due and the debt must be paid off. Since everyone started at the same time, they all start paying off debt at the same time. This alignment of the entire population causes a major problem. In order to pay back debt, they reduce expenses, scale back new investments. Expansion stops, Contraction starts. When the debt is paid off, the money dissapears just the same way it was created by the banking system. This shrinks the money supply and Kondratiev Winter holds a strong grip on the economy. Once the debt level reaches reasonable levels, Winter ends and recovery, aka Spring starts again. Here is explanation of Kondratieff Wave:
www.kondratieffwavecycle.com/kondratieff-wave/
In this deflationary environment the best thing you can do is to avoid going into debt! Stay away from debt and save your dollars. They will be worth more at the bottom of the coming depression.
JS is correct. Having a degree (in the traditional sense; i.e bachelors) helps alot and gives you more options but not having it doesn't mean you are down and out. There are many trade and vocational schools that can get you the needed training and certification usually in 8 months to 2yrs depending on what it is you are training for. These are great options. Especially if you have a skill like mechanic or electrician ect. As long as you have the motivation you have options. These are typically much easier on the pocket book as well. Not everyone is suited for the traditional college route and Votech is a good choice. I know people who aren't math whizzes but could rebuild an engine and make it look easy. Granted these certifications or Votech degrees are somewhat like a traditional degree but at least they typically don't require the full blown college experience in the form of time (4yrs ect), financial costs, or knowledge requirements in other areas like math, science ect (not saying this isn't important or these people are dumb just having a high SAT or ACT isn't typically a qualifier like it is for traditional college). Also I will add that community colleges aren't bad options either, and can get you same or similar degrees as the 4 yr colleges at reduced cost as well.
I would say to be specific the people who have issues are the ones without any specific skill or who often work or have employment in jobs that you are essentially trained on the job and for the most part anyone could really do. Nothing bad about that but those are the type of jobs that are usually much more effected by the economy and will have the lowest pay. You can move up in those jobs but that more often than not is limited and will take a lot of time. The options I mentioned above help insulate you to some extent from that. Though recently many more fields than normal have taken a hit, that is true. I also have a hard time believing the unemployment numbers they post, some funny numbers going on if you ask me.
I do agree with others though. When you go to college you need to seriously look at the degree you are going after and ask yourself will the cost to get this degree actually pay off with a job, a good paying job at that, in the end? I know people dump on the arts degrees but fact is if you are paying the same amount for a degree in "basket weaving" as one poster put it as your are for someone who is getting a degree in education or construction management (both higher demand and likely hood of decent starting pay) you may want to reconsider. I support the arts but there are often no use or very limited uses to these degrees and they leave you straddled with major debt. Might be a great hobby and even make money on the side but actually needing a degree and expecting a decent job from it, well better do you homework before you commit is all I have to say.
Kevin - essentially you did get college trained employees, just not traditional college. More like votech but that is what the Navy did, trained him for a specific task. Most of the time, not always, I'd say when hiring someone who was trained in the service for a particular field is going to be a good bet, especially for something like network engineer. The Navy isn't going to let just anyone do that and they often didn't join to be your standard "grunt" anyways. You made a wise choice.
In the end there are options. For starters I think it is time we start reshaping or educational system and start pushing kids in more set directions early in school. At least at the high school level. And try to better prepare them and have them spend more time in areas that they are obviously excelling at. Options and decisions that the students could make. I also think in doing this colleges and high schools alike should do a better job educating students about fields or degrees that can pay off in the end and help teach them about what it means to take on this debt ect so they are better prepared (the cost to attend secondary ed has got to stop increasing, just like health care, or we as a country are in even more trouble). If the student like the arts great, but at least work with them and help them find realistic options where they can work that in and maybe where they could specialize in the arts fields like those in votech do. Again, just need to research and do some homework, there are options.
marlen101917 "After high school, both of my sons went to college; Barber College. They both went into business together and are doing great. The point is you don't have to put yourself deep in debt to get a decent paying job or career."
There will always be opportunities for the self-employed, but that's not for everyone.
The problem is with corporations downsizing over the past few years, there are not enough people left in the workplace that have the time to train new employees that lack experience and continue to do your work at the same time. Harsh reality, but this is why companies hold out for the "perfect fit".
I work in a quality assurance lab in a large production plant. We needed to hire another lab technician (assoc. degree required), and received resumes from about a dozen candidates. Most were grossly overqualified, and were honest about their qualifications. Some had PhD's (organic chemistry, technical fields, etc), and others had multiple BS degrees. We only interviewed one candidate, because the others were considered to be so overqualified, that it was felt that they would have been bored by the routine work, and wouldn't have stayed more than a couple of months.
The girl we did finally hire admitted to having an assoc. degree in a technical field. After hiring her, we found out that she also had several BS and BA degrees in addition to the one on her resume. She has been with us for over a year now, does a great job, and has no intention of leaving anytime soon.
I suppose the moral of the story is, tailor your resume to fit the job you're applying for, and don't pad it with something which will cause your prospective employer to view you as being overqualified... or a poor long term employee.
The reason most employers won't hire people they perceive as being overqualified is, they don't want to waste any more time or money on job specific training than they have to, especially with an applicant looking for a short term job to get them by until they find something better. It may not seem fair, but then again, that's how life is these days.
Anecdotal observations are fine, but the report is accurate. Education is the key to landing a good job. In the city that is my new home, a bartender or foodserver job applicant with a degree has a much better chance than ones without the "formal education".
Frown all you want on liberal arts or such degrees, but many employers look kindly on those with the self-discipline and long-term goals that are required to get that diploma.
Look at your situation and find the best solution you can. Maybe you have to delay college for a few years while you save up some money, or maybe you need to work 1 or 2 jobs and only go to school part time. You might be able to do what I did, and enlist for 4 years to get the GI college money.
As an example, my wife didn't have anyone else to pay for school and she wouldn't take loans, so she took 8 years to get through college while she worked full-time to pay her bills.
There are options out there for those that are willing to work hard and be flexible.
That presumes people will actually hire you without a degree. I managed to luck out with my current job but a lot of people won't touch you without one. Enlisting isn't really an option for a lot of people if you don't meet the fitness requirements or you have serious moral objections to serving.
I'm not sure you actually read my post. Could your wife have done all that if nobody would look at her without a degree?
Well mabey you need a degree and mabey you don't, but Outsourcing, NAFTA FREE TRADE, UNFAIR TRADE practices container ports over flowing at 100% , Importation of cars,clothes,electronics,household items made from China are all taking there toll on many looking for a job it makes me sick
I graduated last year with a degree in CPRE with three offers in hand. I cannot speak for all engineers, but CPRE, EE, and CompSci seem really damn strong right now.
If you want a college education and can't pay out of pocket for it, then you have to get loans. Only get loans you can discharge in bankruptcy. The GSL is garbage and you will never get rid of that debt.
The biggest reason college is so expensive is that the institutions have learned to game the system.
First, they put priority on out of state students over in state students. They get more money that way. FIX: require in state students to have 100% priority.
Second, every time the GSL limit has been raised, tuition's have been raised. The the GSL is raised again 12 months later to compensate for that. That's because the institutions know they will get their money. FIX: Cut the GSL in half, take the banks out of it entirely, remove the interest rates completely and allow in trade services to pay part of those off.
Third, foreign governments pay for their students to be educated here. FIX: We should be investing in our students futures like we used to do.
This may be true but what they fail to say is over 50% of recent college grads are either unemployed or underemployed. Nice way to sugar coat it though, probably just want to get more americans in dept with no future ahead..
Here is the real problem: When you work a job that pays just enough to cover the monthly bills and necessary expenses, and maybe have enough left over for any emergencies (such as having to go to the doctor), there just is not enough to save for college.
When you can't afford to go to college, you do not get that "magic" degree that allows you to get a job that will pay enough to let you attend college.
If you have to work two or three part-time jobs that "happen" to take up the same amount of time as a full-time job, there is little time for college -- even if you could afford it.
Bottom line: If you couldn't afford college while working that full-time job (or 2 or 3 part-time jobs), you simply could not get that "magic" degree that would allow you to pay for college -- and if you can't afford college now, then you are not going to get that "magic" degree any time soon.
It is what most people know as a "vicious circle".
lolfattynerdswhoknew & Bill in Mill Creek
You don't have to get loans to go to college. Find a minimum wage job and work your butt off to get ahead. In the meantime, live with several roommates to keep the costs down. If there are not even minimum wage jobs where you live, then move.
Instead of going to a 4 year school, start at a community college - their tuition is generally a fraction of what a 4 year school costs.
I'm not saying life is easy (and yes, right now it's particularly difficult in many places), but there are always options for those that are willing to take them.
Join the military. There are many technical fields you can be trained in while also using Tuition Assistance to earn college credits. After your term is up (4-6 yrs), use the GI Bill to finish your degree mostly debt-free.
Roy Wilson - Cream does rise to the top, but so do other things like @#$%
College shows a commitment and dedication to complete a goal or a task but most College Grads have zero street or practical experience. However street trained or individuals who grind it out to learn a trade often make better employees, in some cases that is, not all. I certainly want my child to attend College.
IT IT TIME - Agreed, I'm a Vet of 10 years so I look out for my fellow comrades...
OK you said "BAD ECONOMY" so don't try and paint a pretty picture tomorrow..
Obama has lost more Jobs than produced..He knows nothing on Job growth or economic savvy, I'm taking away your paints.
For general office work there is no need for a degree. Half the graduates come out of college with no business skills whatsoever. They hand them over to a secretary to train and after she's showed them how to read and write the company makes them her supervisor at 2X her pay. And then you hear them complain that they're not paid enough. The country should go back to vocational schools that put out people who knew how to do the job they're hired for.
Gotta love this SPIN article:
Then, just below this article on the FRONT PAGE:
Looks like MSNBC's "feeders" do not have more important things to publish.
Heck, I would rather see more SPIN articles on the unemployment numbers or the Economy which is tanked because of the EuroPIIgs failing or maybe it's is China's fault (Bush has run it's course).
So the choices are either get yourself in $60,000 of debt to get a degree that gets you a job one tier above the bottom, if you are lucky a good 15% below what your parents got with a high school diploma a generation ago.
or
Compete with the other 35 million excess people without a degree for the bottom of the barrel jobs.
This is a simple problem - technology and oursourcing eliminated 50 million good paying jobs. Giving the wealthy EVEN MORE CASH is not the solution.
So this means that if you have money (for a college degree) you have a chance at coming out of poverty. If you are poor you will remain poor. Talk about the rich taking care of the rich. And what shall we do with all these poor- bring slavery back?...
And since college degree costs are now out of reach for most middle class, the middle class can join those in poverty as well...
Middle class? What middle class....... Wasn't that something that dissappeared about five years ago.
Wrong. My parents are middle class yet didnt pay for my college. I went to a Community College for my AA, then xfered to a State University. I received merit based grants and worked part time. The rest I made up in student loans. I only owe 17K in loans. So anyone that says it can't be done for the middle class is just trying to make a pity case.
FYI I got an Accounting degree and AM employed happily.
Ummm... with ingenuity you can come out of poverty. Why should the poor get a handout just because they're poor? What makes them so entitled? How about the best kind of handout - hard work and moving up the ladder?
I agree, anyone willing to slave away for 4 years through college eating ramen noodles, busting their but 25 hrs a day (because 24 isnt enough) and had the foresight to select a college education in a field that will actually employ them once they are graduated, will have it made. They might still have a decent student loan debt to deal with once employed, and they might find that wages arent as good as they expected, and having to pay for their living expenses much more expensive than they first thought...and marriage and kids are going to have to go on the backburner for another 3-4 years until that student loan debt is managed, and that career is actually on track and not stalled in "we're still trying to make sure you're a good fit here"...
and then when you do get settled into that really well paying job, that requires you work 60 hrs a week just to prove "you're a hard worker and love your job"...and the baby is on the way, and the spouse loves the paychecks just hates never being able to spend time with you because your job is the most important thing in the world...
then you'll be "successful"...and you'll hate your life every single waking day.
unless money is all that matters to you, then well, you might love your life. but you'll be in the minority.
really, id rather wallow in poverty (if thats what my lack of a college education will force me to do)...than slave my life so someone else can get filthy rich. I enjoy life too much to spend more than 40 hrs at my job...and if that means im not "dedicated" or I dont "love my job"...than so be it.
I cant change the perspective of greedy sociopaths...
Exactly... As a taxpayer (in the 28% tax bracket), I am glad that a portion of my tax money goes to Pell grants, etc. This article demonstrates why an education is important and why we should be "aiding" the funding of education. It is an investment in FUTURE tax revenue - if (taxpayer) money spent leads to future (tax revenue) income then it isn't a hand-out, it is an investment.
Only if you're a white male. All of the others have minority scholarships. Look up some of them. There are millions of dollars not even applied for for african-american scholarships.
Wow Thisguy...let's all pull together to make our nation strong by only helping ourselves! Someone poor who is smart but can't afford college and ends up working at McDonald's is not just a waste of a life, but a waste for our country as well.
We are only as strong as our weakest link. If we don't help each other (and I am not talking about sending idiots to college, I am talking about smart, but poor kids) than we have nothing to whine about when China and India take over world power and America becomes a "has-been" nation.
You obviously can get jobs with just an HS Diploma. Its not like a college degree is necessary in life to be successful. Everyone knows that common sense and street smarts beat anything you can learn from reading a textbook. But if you don't want to work at a dead end job, where you wake up and dread going to work, then get the college degree. It will open sooo many doors. Granted, experience is necessary, as that is what is the deciding factor in today's economy when looking to get hired, but the college experience is something that I'd always recommend if you love learning. Life isn't just about surviving, its about being happy and growing and challenging yourself.... HS doesn't do that for a person....
Advice: be careful of what trade you get into if you want a job with just an HS Diploma.... Do research and look into what jobs are available in your area. What is abundant in another state may not be in your area. I had a job interview in a group setting where 30+ people showed up for a chiropractic's assistant position, and 80% of them were medical assistants, the rest were recent college grads.... You don't want a medical assistant's degree in San Diego. =/
Most of the kids I know that are attending school are not rich. I would say they are not picking degree programs that will land them a good job, and thus they are wasting money they either earned, or money given to them by parents, are taxpayer money.
My son was a good student and athlete, but he was too immature to be on his own so he stayed local and went to a community college of a sports and merit scholarship. I knew others just like them that stayed around to mature. So the 1st two years he did not accumulate debt.
The next two years his hard working parents paid the cost with my son working for pin money.
His graduate work was done on grant money that with working allowed him to also not accumulate debt.
So 6 years of schooling and no debt. He would later open up a business and hire many which IMO paid back the community for that grant money. This is the circle of education and business we should be fostering.
I used state money to go to a vocational school and get a diploma for computers. Then I went, read some books, and got some industry certifications. I now work alongside people who have degrees that I make as much if not more than. I also have no student loan debt either.
There are so many other factors beyond your level of education that determine whether you are a quality worker that the company wants to keep around. Your personal appearance, your way of presenting yourself to others, your communication skills, your work ethic, and your creativity are all factors that lead to landing and keeping a good job.
Let's also be clear on the definition of a "good job" - is it MONEY alone, or a job that lets you honorably take care of your living expenses while spending time with your family or working for the community. Some of the greatest rewards in life have nothing to do with money, but a lot of people don't realize this until they are old and ready to die.
You know what Struggling... My Dad was a blue collar worker in a service industry, and so was my Mom. I worked three part time jobs for most of the time I was in college, and still had to stop a couple of times to accrue more money before I could continue. Yes, it took me almost a decade to get my degree, and yes, I had some student loans to pay when I got it. But I got it... and so can anyone else that really wants it... So take your Class Envy BS and stick it up your A$$. You and Obozo wouldn't know the American Dream if it sat on your face. I'm not one of your "hated 1%". But I am one of the 60% who's tired of carrying you entitlement mentality deadbeats on my back.
FedUP: Your definition of the American Dream is pretty skewed... Tax breaks for the rich are a POLICY decision the Bush tax cuts have helped along...wanting equity isn't "class envy", but a simple issue of fairness--the middle class is paying way too much and college is more expensive than it should be..hardly a "entitlement" mentality. There's lots of us who don't confuse what's in a person's wallet for an indication of their character...and don't mind AT ALL a tiny portion of our tax dollars going toward Pell grants (which don't even cover the cost of books). --YOU'RE the one with the entitlement mentality...MINE MINE MINE!!! (you'll change your tune as soon as you can't find a doctor when you need one because investing in education is just TOO difficult a concept for you to grasp...then your whine can be all about where your "entitlement" went).
A. The largest tax reductions went to the middle class, not the rich as you Class Envy BSers like to assert. The middle class, who will be hurt the most when they expire. B. Obama has signed those same cuts into law for three and a half years... they're now the Obama tax cuts.... (the Obama tax increases when they expire). And C. I'm not confusing what's in your wallet... I'm making a value judgement about your work ethic, or rather lack thereof. You'd rather whine about not getting govt freebies than perspire a bit to solve the problem. And I'm most certainly not confusing the American Dream. I'm living it. And pretty darn proud of it I might add. As far as keeping education costs under control... one way is to live at home, and go to a Community College or Jr College for two years, build up cheap base credits, and then transfer to a four yr university to finish. Another is entering a work/study program, where you alternate work with semesters of classes. Yet another is to go to school part time while you work (which is how I finished up). And of course, it helps to get a degree in something that actually has a return on investment... engineering, yes... diversity studies, no. And, just as an aside, darn near all universities are run by Liberals... so if the prices are too high... well, looks like Liberals are scamming the middle class all around.
Bull@!$%#, for the average middle class it was less than $500, it may have been larger in volume but by size the top 1% stand to lose a lot more than $500 from having it expire.
Really! I have a Master's degree, o fluff article writer. Please tell me about all the quality jobs it can land me. Because right now, I've actually taken my Master's OFF my resume, because all it seems able to do, is scare potential employers away. They think I want FAR more money than they're willing to pay (I don't) and wonder why someone like me would want their little entry level job (I do). So please, go on about how I should be making $40,000+++ a year, right now. Because I'm only making 20, and I'd really like to know this secret.
Yes, that master's degree is viewed now as a negative. With all the negative ire over the outrageous cost increases of public funded education while we are in a recession, the public has come to view higher education as someone who wasted alot of money for not much in return because our colleges just do not give you a competitive edge.
Nick, all Master's degrees are not equal. What is your degree in? Don't complain if its a psych degree and you can't find work. If its an MS in Physics and you cant find work then Ill gladly listen to your complaints with empathy. However I have a feeling your degree is more like art.
What is your Master's degree in and why did you choose to pursue a Master's degree?
Do you really want to become incensed? Check the Bureau of Labor Statistics for the average lifetime earnings of a carpenter and the holder of a bachelor's degree. Then deduct the cost of the education from the degree-holder and add the extra four years of earnings to the carpenter. How do you like it now?
Here's how bad it can get, I once applied for a 7/11 clerks position and they give you a math skill's test, which you have 15 minutes to complete I did it in 3 minutes 100% correct and the person that administered the test spoke to me and said you know we are not going to hire you, you've been in management for 16 years and the first offer that is made you will walk right out that door and We are not going to waste our time hiring a person like you, all I could say was thanks for being honest ..... So now it's nearly impossible to get a job I can't get an entry level job and companies today want to pay only minimum wage so I haven't worked for more than 3 years, lucky I have technical skills and can support myself with those skills and not have to depend on my actual occupation, but how many college educated people have multiple skills that can earn them money if they find themselves unemployed for a long period of time, I don't care how much you spent on your education, it's all about skills not just education, don't get me wrong education is a good thing but having skills that can earn you money in a bad economy is priceless ......
Denver bill. That may be true. However let me ask you about the carpenter's other benefits. I for instance make 50K a year as a corporate accountant with <1Year of experience. I also get 300K in life insurance, a defined benefit pension, 300 in stock a month, great group policy insurance, 3 weeks vacation, 1 week sick, 3 floating holidays, and 1 week "personal time", tuition reimbursement for a Masters at any school I can get into, and discounts at our companies online store. I say this not to sound like an arrogant snob, which I admit might sound the case right now. I say this to point out that you can't compare base salaries between fields. There are other benefits. You go to college to get a "white collar job" like I have. I did this because I knew that unlike that carpenter, I would have other cushy bennies, even if we made the "same" in base pay. I don't mean to knock on carpenters, I respect hard hands on labor, I just compared the benefits of each occupation before I selected my major. Having done that I saw that accounting was the best option in benefits and opportunities for a degree.
Dont get a degree in Art. Get one that will get you somewhere.
I have a PhD. in Liberal Arts and can't find a job. A friend of mine has a bachelors in mechanical engineering degree and makes almost $100K a year. Talk about unfair!
Ok, just kidding but the fact is, one must choose a degree program that is marketable and in this day and age it's in computers, engineering & nursing that is king.
thatguydownsouth,
Your point is valid. It is unfair to compare base salaries (or wages, as the case may be). However, I was comparing average lifetime earnings. That is a valid comparison precisely because the top earners with degrees are making more than the top-earning carpenters.
Regarding benefits: White collar earners are quick to point out that they don't get their hands dirty (and no, I don't consider you a snob) and they may get better benefits. Since you are providing anecdotal evidence (that being your own case), let me reply with my own anecdote. I dropped out of high school, and got my GED in the service. I have been a carpenter since the 1970's. I make 80K a year as a craftsman with 30 years experience. My benefits include full medical coverage, 3 weeks vacation, 2 weeks PTO, 100K in paid life insurance, fully-paid disability, $500/mo for a truck allowance, and a 401K where the company matches my contributions 1 for 1. I also never have to worry if I am getting ripped off by someone working on my house.
I admit that your case is probably the rule, and mine is most likely the exception. However, the cream rises to the top in any profession. I hope you will be as fortunate in your career as I have been in mine. BTW, if you like crunching numbers, and pay and benefits are your goal, you may wish to go back to school, obtain the math degree, and become an actuary.
Right back atcha!!! Three college degrees and unemployed for over two years.
I feel kinda lucky reading this stuff:
some college, started my current job 8 years ago at $10/hr and im now making $38K a year salary with bene's - 3 weeks vaca, 1 week sick, 2 floating holidays...
I am lucky because the job I have, a college degree wouldnt really help you in - it's pretty much a learn as you go job, and you simply have to have common sense, computer knowledge and hard work.
I work in the print industry, and when the economy tanked in 2007/2008 we felt it...it was scary for a bit, but the past 2-3 years we've rebounded nicely.
Our success isnt soley based on how hard we work...it's based on how the economy is, and how our customers fare in that economy. Print is needed, but sometimes, can be put on the back burner until timing is better...we do so much promotional and marketing print, that when those budgets are tightened - we are affected.
So many people are so arrogant, acting like THEY MADE the right choices and worked hard, while everyone else not as fortunate made bad choices and didnt work hard...and thats just not the case.
today the big dogs are computers, engineering, nursing/health...
in 20-30 years ago, it was engineering too - but automotive. now those guys are struggling. today's cell phone engineers are going to become yesterdays auto engineers...struggling to find work.
and im just gonna call it - 10 years from now, there's going to be lots of jobs lost in healthcare. people are struggling to afford health care now, and over the past 10-15 years lots of employers have dropped health insurance, and lots of employee's have dropped it too even when it's offered. I predict this will pick up more steam...and there will not be a public Obamacare option to pick up those pieces...I predict the republicans will get it removed either through the courts or through the political process.
when that happens, healthcare will lose tons of money and wont be able to maintain the growth, let alone the current staff.
it doesnt matter if we need it, if no one wants to pay for it...it wont be had.
Unfortunate, but true. We have had to not interview many candidates with advanced degrees because the budget would not allow us to pay them well enough coupled with the fear they'd move on if by chance they did accept the low pay.
I had a paid internship with a couple of guys with MS in bioengineering that couldn't get jobs because of the MS degree. My other friend got a nice paying job in aerospace engineering with just a BS and they paid for his MS; now, he's just waiting for a pretty raise.
Advice: stick with a BS, get an entry level position, transfer to a better company, make them pay for your higher education, profit.... I'd really only recommend getting an MS right after a BS if you plan on going to med school, vet school, or before pursuing a PhD.
Lemme jump in here....
I have a doctorate in chiropractic. I have a private practice in a small town, and am doing just fine. Here's the kicker-
I spent 9 years in college to get my degree, spending over $170,000 in loans to pay back over 30 years. All the time I was in college, I worked on campus doing menial jobs, but nothing that was signficant enough to off-set my tuition costs. The little money I made simply went to living expenses. So, I wasn't making an actual income the entire time I went to school, therefore I'm way behind my peers.
I graduated, passed my boards, gained my licensure, and then stepped out into one of the most hostile and repressive industries in America.
Now, don't get me wrong...I LOVE chiropractic; my patients are wonderful and appreciative and I really enjoy making a positive difference in people's lives. But the healthcare industry is horrible. Between the government, insurance industry, and attorneys constantly trying to find ways to screw me and/or reduce my reimbursements, it's a constant battle.
I make a decent income, though no one would consider me rich by any standard here in America. I actually make less than the author in post #3.8 above in this thread. So, so much for the whole idea that a degree (especially advanced degrees) is a guarantee for a large paycheck.
My point is not to complain about our diminishing reimbursements in the healthcare field, but rather to shine some light on the entire idea that college is "worth it". Nowadays, I advise young people to pursue a college degree if it is a means to an end in order to gain entry into a career field that excites and interests them. DO NOT go to college just for the falsely-overemphasized promise of making more money, or to have a career that doesn't require physical labor (my job is VERY physical, actually!). Go to college because you have a deep love for the profession you will become a part of once you graduate. If your profession doesn't require college, or much post-secondary education, then fine. Hard work, diligence, honesty, and perseverance will make you successful, not the piece of paper they hand you after years of academic toil and stress.
kimposibl - you are basing your lousy advice for everyone based on the unique situation of one of your friends? gimme a break.
truesaid,
HA! Computers! LMFAO. I have two MBA's, mathematics and physics. I'm also an MCM out of Microsoft (go look it up). I have 27 years experience in network engineering.
Now let me tell you about the computer business.
First of all, when you are a senior as I am, you see just how messed up, nasty and vicious this industry is. The politics is horrendous.
Second, NEVER tell them you have any higher education or you'll never get the job because none of the hiring decision makers will hire someone smarter then themselves. If you get an offer, it will come with all kinds of promises of benefits if you do a good job and make the company look good.
Third, when you finish the main tasks they secretly hired you for, they lay you off "with no reason given" BEFORE you are entitled to get any of the promises or benefits.
In the 27 years I have been in this business, I have had to sue or threaten to sue EVERY SINGLE EMPLOYER for violating the agreement we signed. EVERY SINGLE ONE. In EVERY case they paid.
It's totally normal to do this these days. For every 100 people that they screw, only 1 will have the gumption to hammer them with an attorney. No mater what laws they break or contracts they violate, they still save money. It's the cost of doing business BECAUSE MOST DON'T SUE.
In the computer industry, the only good money that is made is with the backing of a good labor/contract lawyer.
Bill,
My experience has been a bit different...
I've worked in software for 20 years and I've never even considered hiring an attorney and I've never had a company go back on their contract. I have been laid off once, and another time the I worked at company went out of business.
After a hard time finding my first job, I've never had any difficulties getting another job (ex: when I was laid off at the one job, within a few hours I had an offer from another company, and 2 other companies called and asked if I wanted to interview). I only asked for a raise once (which they gave me), and I've always felt fairly compensated.
My experience is, if you work hard and do whatever you can to make the company succeed, you will usually be rewarded.
Ron,
Getting offers was never a problem and doing the work required has always been my pleasure. But now I run my own business in the IT world and it has turned out to be the most stable and profitable move I made.
Bill, it sounds like after 27 years you found your niche- going into private enterprise. Good for you- not everyone can succeed as an entrepreneur. But not everyone has had the experience you claim to have had in IT- I know some who have never had trouble finding even their first job and had since been contacted by recruiters and always found satisfying work without such politics.
It also depends on what chosen field your degree is in. There is no demand for basket weaving 101 or for liberal arts. Engineering, chemistry, and medical fields are the hot demands right now.
Also going to a tech school, such as a certificate for x-ray tech, lab tech, etc are also in demand, the pay is less than a degree, but more than the average high schooler will make.
There are many ways to receive a college degree. I know several people who went the JC route for two to three years, then took another four or five years to achieve their college degree. It wasn't easy for them, but they did it, and are now making the big dollars.
Don't think you have to remain poor, you don't. If there is a will, there is a way. Nobody says you have to receive your degree in four years. Who cares if it takes ten, you have acheived your goal. And yes, employers do look at not only how, but also where you got your degree. State colleges are just as good as the big name ones are. Don't let the snobs think the Ivy leauge is the best, it's not.
Nurses get treated like dirt; who wants to do that? So many drop out of engineering because it's very hard for many, and boring. And, are there a ton of gung-ho chemistry fanatics? I think not. SO, most people are screwed.
I agree with your post; I'm just opining about the awful selection we are faced with.
Yes Clem, you are going to have a hard time finding a job that is interesting, doesn't require hard work or thinking, where everyone is nice to you and pays well.
Clem...it is easy to see the difference between yourself and SallyAnn...SallyAnn sought a CAREER....you, on the other hand seem to be pursuing a pipe dream. Nurses treated like dirt?? Engineering is hard AND boring?? No "gung-ho" Chemists?? We can only HOPE not. I suggest you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and RE-THINK YOUR FUTURE. Perhaps collecting tolls at a Tollway Exit Ramp, and living entirely on the public dole as a "retired" at 50 public servant is more to your liking. I guess you want to pass on to YOUR children as much debt as possible??? Thinking like that GOT US TO THE SORRY POINT WE ARE currently engaged in. Just when did the American spirit lose its' way?? Oh, I know.......when we started thinking that everyone should become rich at the hands of our government. Not going to last very long.
Itdepends on what your degree is in, there isnt much of a call for art historians in the job market. All high schools should return to offering vocational classes, there will always be a demand for electricians, plumbers, and car repair technicians.
Clem- you might have a point actually, that the fact fewer are willing to go into nursing, engineeering, chemistry, computer science, etc. makes the job openings more plentiful for those that do have a knack for and an interest in those fields. Maybe fewer & further between but they are the ones out making the money and have many options and opportunities available. So if you are a nurse and get treated like dirt you can find another venue to work at where they treat you a little nicer. At least you have a skill you can be proud of and the portability to go where you want to go.
Why can't people just work harder? Oh right, too many people glued to the internet and iGadget. It always takes a certain type of personality in a particular field. Engineers have to love/be good at math and physics. Nurses have to love/be good at taking care of people (and yes, changing diapers/bedpans). Chemists have to love/be good at math. Each individual has a particular interest/calling. The job comes to NO ONE. It's 50% hard work, 50% luck. SallyAnn made an awesome point. If there is a will, there is a way, and with enough hard work people can do whatever they want. Unfortunately, people like Clem just try to find a way to scrap by.....
Ivy league schools are the best. It's weird you would say otherwise. Christ the networking alone is worth the 4 years and the cost.
I find it really condescending that you use "basket weaving" in the same sentence as liberal arts. The fact of the matter is, I worked extremely hard for my liberal arts degree, much harder than my friends who were barely getting C's and D's in the business school. I met brilliant people in my classes, the kind of people that you want making changes to our world. Just because our country doesn't value this type of education does not make it worthless. It means that we need to change our thinking as a society. I'd much rather have myself or one of my liberal arts cohorts in a position of power in a company than my rich-daddy, narrow-minded business school friends who were simply going to school (and drinking and screwing their way through) so that they could "work" for their daddy's company when they graduated and become another drone in a suit.
I work for a multi-national Fortune 500 company. 20 years ago, it was easy to get hired with them with only a high school education to do office work and data entry. Most of those jobs have now been eliminated through technology. For example, we no longer need data entry people because our customers enter their own information via our website.
The remaining jobs have become increasingly complex so college degrees are now required for any new hires. In the past, they would assign you one or two accounts and teach you how to do them. You only had a few accounts because they were all done by hand. Now, with more technology and software, each person has dozens of accounts and needs a stronger foundation in business, accounting, and finance.
Really, IT firms are looking for a fancy piece of paper? That's strange, because the IT firms that know what they're doing --- don't. Demonstrate that you know what you're doing, and you're set. If you can't do that, you either don't get the job or don't last long.
Exactly. Yes, I have an associates degree in computer science. But unless they want me programming in Pascal or working on Novell 3.1 and Windows NT servers, they don't want me utilizing what I learned in college. Right now, DBAs and Linux administrators are so short that I have multiple head hunters offering me bonuses if I can send them someone that can just get an offer.
You are in a technical field (I am also in IT), so if you were still using skills from 15 years or more ago (just guessing from what you mentioned), I would be shocked. However, education lets you acquire new skills quicker because you have a foundation. I have seen many individuals leave IT because they did not learn new skills. I am constantly reading, taking courses, writing articles, and getting into new areas. I also understand the "why" of what I am doing versus just using a technology. Covey said it best over 20 years ago "sharpen the saw".
50% of college grads are either unemployed, or working p/t.
More than 50% of your statement is false.
BTW, google 'percent of college graduates unemployed'. Jack did leave out the word "recent", but he did actually undershoot it. It's 53%.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/53-of-recent-college-grads-are-jobless-or-underemployed-how/256237/
Jackov: the unemployment rate for those with degrees is a mere 4%. Now I take it math is not your strong suit, but you'll have to trust that this is WAY less than "50%".
Education is Education...period. In this day and age everyone needs an education. America is a competitive nation....just check out professional sports networks, especially when it comes to college or professional football. Our children have to be prepared to compete. ....and it comes to reason that employers now are choosing to hire college graduates because "they have a choice to hire more educated workers". I do feel that our young people need to choose marketable degrees to succeed. Currently my youngest is in grad school and will graduate with Master's Degree in Counseling-but she is also wanting to continue on for her doctorate. Her plan is to try to get a job with the FBI as a profiler. My oldest decided she was going nowhere in her current job(due to the economy) and is starting grad school this fall for her MBA. Yes...they will be saddled with student loan debt. We are not wealthy but have helped them along financially. This is what parents need to do if possible. Our nation needs educated individuals to take the place of those who have destroyed our economy, Hopefully our children will do a better job for this country.
Educated AND dedicated / committed to creating wealth for themselves through attainment of education objectives which will fulfill their dreams. Sounds like you raised your children well. Now lets' just hope they can retain as much of that wealth as possible without our government "re-distributing " it to those who have NO aspirations of success.
Keir Weimer believes there is a path out of this economic malaise, but it's to be lead by a confident and experienced leader in Monsieur Romney, not our country's sitting incumbent. We need a huge shift in economic policy and ideology in order to jump start hiring, put confidence back into the markets and regain the national and international clout of yesteryear.
Keir Weimer thinks this will only happen with a change in leadership, and Mr. Romney is the man for the job.
-Keir Weimer
How cares what Keir Weimer thinks? MAYBE his mom
truesaid believes that politicians tell people what they want to hear so as to become elected or reelected
People who speak of themselves in the third person aren't quite right and definitely should not be listened to.
Funny Shellie! That is exactly what I was thinking!
Watch for Keir Weimer's new show this fall on TBS:
"Keir Weimer Presents the Keir Weimer Show Starring Keir Weimer!"
Produced by Keir Weimer Industries!
I'm sorry - who is Keir Weimer?
My partner has a high school diploma, whereas I have a Master's degree. I graduated Magna Cum Laude in my undergrad studies and then with high honors (2 National Honor Societies) in my graduate program and post-graduate certification. My partner and I make the same salary. She has 16 years experience in her field and has worked her way up to Assistant Vice President/Internal Auditing Specialist. I too am at the top of my food chain (no room for me to go up in the company) so I am looking for a new job while I still have one. Guess what...no callbacks. I have 12+ years of experience, the degrees, the certificates, and so on. I received an email rejection and I was curious so I asked if there was something else I needed to have on my resume, additional education, experience, and so on, so I could make necessary changes. I was told I have too much and it is intimidating because I have more experience and education than most people in the company I applied to. So, based on that response, if I take off most of my education, my certificates, and some experience, I would probably receive callbacks. Yes, I am employed now and have only been without a job for a total of 2 years since I was 16 (I'm now 34) and yes I fall in that college educated employed percentile, however it is harder for me to find someone to call me back because I am, apparently, intimidating.
If 12 years experience, degree, and certifications make you more competitive than anyone at that company then it sounds like its time for you to start your own company and hire THEM. lol
There is a lot of validity in what you say. Mostly, it goes un-said though. Very few will admit that they are intimidated of someone with more education. I am 57, a huge negative. I have 3 degrees (BBA, MBA, MS). All in management sciences and IT. Rarely has it helped. My last position was a CIO. No one wants to hire someone that they feel is "too old" or "over qualified." The latter is felt is a temporary situtation until a more appropriate situation occurs. There is no "one size fits all" answer. Every situation is different. The workplace is entirely different now though. It's every man for himself so to speak. Workers are strictly a commodity unless you have some kind of leverage like family, political, etc. None of this is a good trend and it will only get worse.
I highly doubt anyone was told they were intimidating and better than anyone in the company.
Obviously resumes need to be augmented depending on the position you are applying for, but I highly doubt that it is simply stating that you have a college degree that is impeding you. And it is fabulous that your partner has been able to accomplish all of that in 16 years, but sadly, today, someone without some type of further education would not be going into the auditing field.
I think this article is misleading, because there have also been articles that say the exact opposite thing. The deal is you have to figure out what kind of job interests you, then see what you need to do to get it. If you want to be an engineer, of course you need college. Mechanic, maybe, but not necessarily. Agriculture jobs, unless you are working in research, nope, a little college helps with the management aspect but is not necessary. Same with the hospitality industry. And with sales, I guess it's a mixed bag. My Bro in Law is a corporate V.P. and has just started taking college classes. He is just a natural salesman, and has done that his entire adult life. Depends on your situation, location, and timing, as most jobs do.
.
But it's simply the facts...those with a degree with earn far more over their lifetime...EVEN if they spend a while finding that job. Of course there are no guarantees for a job that come with the diploma...but you are guaranteed to find it much, much harder to make your way financially without a degree.
.
It is what you get a college degree in that matters, not just that you happen to have one.
If you are Already Struggling in making a bare-bones living, Getting a college degree today will KEEP YOU in a Precarious position because of the ENORMOUS DEBT you have acquired to get it-----There must be some kind of reform to make a education more AFFORDABLE without such Crippling Debt !!!
Maybe if you actually looked into it and devised a PLAN you would figure out there is a way to get just what you are crowing about. I'm working on the last legs of my RN right now. Did it cost money? Yes, was it "crippling" no. Because I worked out a plan and invested the time and effort to put that plan into action. Now, if you want to roll right out of HS and spend 4 years in a dorm working on your art history degree at UCLA, then yes, you will have just wasted a whole lot of money.
Raymond: There is no reason to pile up debt. Simply choose a less expensive school and WORK while you go to school. A LOT of us do it...(and there's nothing wrong with a state school...)
Not just any degree, but a degree in a field which is in demand. A degree in arts, history, geology, political science, sociology, music, etc won't get you a job. Actually, in an economy like this, there isn't a job offer for too many degrees. Didn't we just have a report that 2 of 3 grads are going home to live with mom?
Right on Road Warrior, I think a two year degree or specialty courses leading one to get a license in certain fields is better than a four year degree today. (ie LPN, RN, computer science). Four year degrees are a thing of the past, you need a Masters and beyond or the two year college for most jobs today.
That is right today. However, two of my three college degrees were earned decades ago. My third is in an area undergoing huge funding cuts on state and federal levels, so no one is hiring, or, as said before, are looking for less educated folks. At my age, I m not going back to college for a degree in engineering! What do I do?? Really not sure anymore.......
Don't waste your money on a degree from a second- or third-tier university (do your research; they are usually for-profit schools). Employers are onto that game. I will never again hire someone from one of those diploma mills. The graduates do not learn anything useful for the real world and do not have the work ethic gained in a traditional university setting. If you don't know what I am referring to, watch Frontline's "College, Inc."
you don't know what "second- or third-tier" means. For profits are neither.
BROKEBACKBARRYLUVSGAYBOYS banned, rereg of peter a kuhlman faggot.
get a CDL learn to drive a truck save your money open a business
The saying "in this economy" is getting pretty stupid (actually it got old a loooong time ago). In any economy a college grad will have an advantage. In any economy it's smart to save money.
ThisGuy,
I agree with you.
We use the term "in this economy" or "you know...with this economy..." as a crutch.
This is still America and there are more opportunities here than any other country on earth.
I would bet that 99% of the people who are broke and struggling were broke and struggling in 2006 as well.
My parents are in that 1 percent I guess..
I guess my family is part of that 1 percent
No...in 2006 they had a phony job and phony credit and lived in a fantasy world where EVERYBODY was in the top 1%.
in obozoville it doesn't make much differance
The President of the US...(I'm guessing that's what your juvenile insult was supposed to refer to?) is right in encouraging more education. Of course, uneducated voters who think "it doesn't make much difference" and don't understand exactly WHY they're unemployed also have their candidate. He'll be happy to have the support of anyone arguing that what we need in this country is more ignorance.
If you are free of most Debt, The LAST thing you want to do jump in that black hole right now for a Problematic degree that "Might" pay off in the Future---If you can still get a job in your field----Even if it's in demand and Lucrative.