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Subscribe to RSSCody Cameron, a Marine stationed in Jacksonville, N.C., got burned when he bought a used car. He paid $17,000 last year for a 2004 Nissan 350-Z with 60,000 miles on it. He figured the car would last him a long time. It didn’t.
“I drove the vehicle for about two weeks. And one day all of the wheel studs on the left rear tire just popped off and the tire took off down the road,” he recalls.
He was able to get the dealership to pay for the repairs. But about a week later, the studs broke again. This time they refused to pay.
Cameron couldn’t afford the repair work, so he took the car to another dealer, hoping to get some money for a trade-in. That’s when he discovered his car had been in a wreck. The AutoCheck report showed extensive damage to the left side of the vehicle.
“When I bought it, I specifically asked the salesman – multiple times – if it had been in a wreck,” Cameron tells me. “And he said no. There were no accidents.”
Right now, Cameron’s 350-Z cannot be driven. But he’s still on the hook for the payments. He’s suing the dealer.
It’s a common problem
It’s unfortunate. Shady car dealers often target military customers. Unethical salespeople see them as easy marks.
Holly Petraeus, director of the Office of Servicemember Affairs at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, warns military personnel to be on guard when they walk onto a car lot.
“You have these car places that spring up around military installations selling used cars for a very marked-up price and then putting high financing on top of that,” she says.
Military personnel can be especially vulnerable customers. They’re young. This may be their first car purchase. They often have a limited or negative credit history.
Petraeus (whose husband, Gen David Petraeus is CIA Director) tells me everyone in the service is afraid of doing anything that could cost them their security clearance. A bad credit report is the No. 1 reason for having that clearance pulled.
“They’re very conscious of that,” she says. “So somebody can threaten them and say, ‘If you don’t pay up then you’re going to get in trouble,’ which of course, is the last thing they want.”
Holly Petraeus is not the only one sounding the alarm. The auto experts at Edmunds.com advise military customers to watch out for deceptive sales practices.
"Military personnel have a steady income. The government is paying them every single month for their service. Unscrupulous car dealers know that and are really anxious to get into that income stream,” says Edmunds.com’s Carroll Lachnit.
Edmunds.com warns military families to be on the lookout for crafty salespeople who use patriotism as part of their sales pitch.
"We're trying to get them to be aware that appealing to their pride or flattering them may not be sincere appreciation for their military service, but just another way to get their hooks into that paycheck,” Lachnit says.
Car dealer rip-offs affect mission readiness
Rosemary Shahan, president of Consumers for Auto Reliability and Safety, has a long list of “unconscionable practices” she says unethical dealers use on military buyers. They include: falsifying loan applications, bait-and-switch financing and selling a car they know has been in a wreck without telling the customer.
“Auto sales and financing scams are leading causes of financial readiness problems for military service members and their families,” she says.
Two years ago, while Congress was debating the Dodd-Frank bill on financial reform, Air Force Secretary Michael Donley wrote a letter to lawmakers. It said:
“I'm sure you agree that Airmen who are distracted by financial issues at home decreases readiness. Protection from unprincipled automobile lending enables our Airmen to concentrate on their primary mission -- fly, fight and win in air, space and cyberspace." (See full letter)
In a similar letter, John McHugh, Secretary of the Army wrote:
"Over the years, many of our Soldiers have fallen victim to predatory lending practices and have entered into contracts for prohibitively expensive financial products promoted by some unscrupulous car dealerships and lenders. Though the Army does educate our Soldiers about buying cars in our normal financial education curriculum, the fact remains that junior enlisted Soldiers … remain an easy target for dishonest brokers.” (See full letter)
McHugh’s letter listed the results of an informal Department of Defense survey of officers who do financial counseling for the four main branches of the armed forces. The vast majority (79 percent) reported they were seeing military members with auto financing problems. Many of these clients, they reported, worried they could not make their car payments.
The National Independent Automobile Dealers Association(NAIDA) does not shy away from the problem.
“Try as we may to get rid of them, there are still bad actors in our industry,” says Steven Jordan, NIADA’s chief operating officer. “We are aware of the growing issue regarding vehicle purchases and financing by military personnel and we feel there is no place in our industry for those who wish to take advantage of or deceive our military personnel with improper disclosure or unfair & deceptive trade practices.”
Protect yourself
There are things everyone – military and civilian – should do when buying a vehicle.
- Do your homework. Check out the dealership. Talk with friends and go to the Better Business Bureau website. Learn the actual market price of any vehicles you are interested in. It’s easy. Just go to Edmunds.com, Kelly Blue Book or TrueCar.
- Never shop alone. You should always have someone there to watch your back. Remember, dealership salespeople do this every day for a living. No matter what they say, their job is to get the most money possible on every transaction.
- Don’t let anyone pressure you into signing the sales contract. Once you sign it, the vehicle is yours and you are legally required to make the payments. There is no three-day “cooling-off period” for car sales.
- Never buy a used car until you have it inspected by a qualified independent mechanic. They can spot damage from a previous wreck or potential mechanical problems. The small price you pay for this inspection (normally $100 to $150) could save you literally thousands of dollars down the road.
More detailed advice for U.S. service members is available at “Boot Camp for Military Car Buyers.”
You can also read my car-buying tips at ConsumerMan.com.
Leave a Comment:
Why don't they just go to a website like cars.com?
Put the bastards on the front line without a weapon!
This is actually pretty common,
Young and naive military members, many with their first real line of income - are perfect targets for dealerships to sell them cars for way more than they are worth (or to sell them cars that they really can't afford with insanely long loan terms)
Dealerships love to see some young soldier, airman, or sailor come into buy a car, because they know that when they do that the government is ultimately on the hook for those payments as well, and the military can and will garnish the wages to ensure those payments are made on time.
Military bases tend to have lots of car dealerships nearby for this very reason - and many bases have orientation on avoiding the shady dealers. I guess this guy missed that orientation.
Does 17K for a 2004 350Z with 60K miles on it sound right? Seems just a TAD high.
Who's the Idiot that tightened his lugs, the studs just dont fall off unless the the mechanic uses the impact driver incorrectly, and it happened twice..I would sue.
Next time you drive through a Marine Core Town just look at the business's that are close to the base.. Check Cashing Cut Throats, Loan Shark Business' and yes used car lots. Easy picking for them, young mostly under educated. Capitalism at its finest.
#1.2 - Kelly Blue Book has that car at $16,000 retail price with no additional equipment or options selected.
It is actually pretty common and military members should use a referral service from the base or an online service to get correct pricing and financing.
These people are a bunch of thugs.
Should be laws in place...you rip people off you go to jail....simple form stating all the facts of the car: no accidents, number of owners, milliage...standard stuff...both parties sign....if dealership lies...full refund....done....plus the dealership get fine for mis-representation. Unfortunately, we are stupid society allowing for "creative dishonesty" from banks, car dealership, goverment contracts etc....this is our form of capitialism and so everybody has to be educated and knowledgeable watch their own back
Shady car dealers new? They've existed ever since four wheels hit the road and likely most of our readers have been duped at least once. Just a coincidence that military types are caught as well. It is an unregulated industry but there should be some method of closing down business's which peddle written off cars.
I feel for those who get ripped off by these crooked used car dealers, but there are things that service members, and anyone else for that matter, can do to help protect themselves. The incident cited in the article is one that could easily have been avoided. I mean who has not seen the incredibly frequent commercials on TV for CarFax. All this guy had to do was request a copy of the CarFax report for the car in question and he could have avoided this problem. He would have been immediately aware that the car had been in a bad wreck. Any reputable used car dealer these days will be more than willing to provide you with the CarFax report and even if they won't, you can get one yourself for a nominal fee. Another thing he could have done, as the article suggests, was had an independent mechanic go over the car. If the dealer refuses to allow you to have this done, walk away and do not buy the car. Most mechanics will do an inspection of a used car for a very reasonable amount and it would seem like a very prudent thing to do before investing $17,000 in a used car. As for the financing ripoffs, the best bet is to go to the military credit union and get pre-approved for a car loan, avoiding the used car dealers financing altogether.
In any case, it sounds like the service member in the story has a good case for fraud against the dealer since he falsely stated that the car had not been in an wreck. I would also have some serious questions for whoever repaired the car after the studs came out the first time. If the cause had been properly determined and repairs had been done correctly this should never have happened again, although it should not have happened the first time either. When something like this happens no respectable mechanic is going to simply replace the studs without determining what caused the failure to start with. To do so would only be doing half their job.
No one deserves to be ripped off, but people do need to take some responsibility for educating and protecting themselves. After all, people know that used car salesmen can be about as slimy as they come, rated just above or below ambulance chasing lawyers depending on who you ask.
These shady car dealers popping around military bases are not new. We were warned about them right out of bootcamp.
But yes, they are really easy targets. Think about it. New recruits are usually 18-22 yrs old, in a new state or city, probably first time away from parents that could have steered them in the right direction on their first car purchase. These car dealers are scum.
I would like to see them walk back in to the dealership and say:
"Do you know what I do for a living?" "I kill people...and I am VERY good at my job". :)
All joking aside, I do not know why the installation commanders do not put these places off limits to all military personnel. That would probably drive them out of business.
Thanks, I definitely wasn't expecting a 2004 with 60K to be worth that much at all. I guess those 350Z's hold their value pretty well.
This has been going on for a long time. When I was in the army in the late 80s my wife and I went to a used car lot and the guy tried to sell us a real piece of sh1t and when I said not no but hell no the guy laughed and said "you'll be back".
We did not go back but ended up getting a nice Subaru 4w drive hatchback from another non-shady dealer and that car was a honey! We gave him a lot of free advertising too.
There have been worthless turds in the punch bowl of society like these for a long time who have no problem screwing over young military personnel. Sadly the gov't screws over those same young soldiers when they come home with debilitating injuries after a war.
Hopefully a bright side can be that the debilitated soldier wont be so bad off he/she can use their GI bill and study something that can still give them a productive life.
Hats off to our military! Let's bring 'em home and get busy making America a place of opportunity for its citizens once again.
Unfortunately, car buying for the military if better now than it used to be. Now it’s mostly just used car dealer who rip the Military off. 20-30 years ago (I’m at 31 years in the military) the new car dealers also joined in. When I bought my first family car, the Chevrolet dealer in Killeen, Texas (outside FT Hood) added “$2000 additional dealer profit” to the sticker of each minivan. And then would not negotiate the price, because “some soldier will buy it for sticker if you don’t”. This was common practice for dealers near the base, since most soldiers could not travel to shop for a car, without a car. Luckily I could, so I went 20 mile away to another dealer and got the same vehicle for $4500 less. Now, the new car dealers in Killeen and everywhere else offer military discounts – a big change.
frankly im relieved that it's not just average citizens getting screwed by predatory lending and dealers.
and im also glad to know that our politicians cant be swayed out of the pocket of big money even when our military begs and pleads to do the right thing, shut down deceptive and criminal businesses.
Allowing dishonesty, low integrity and zero ethics is all part of mainstream U.S.B.S. (United States Bull Shyt). Don't say it ain't so. The sleaziest bought-and-paid-for politicians win. The most dishonest and underhanded businessmen make more money and the beat goes on. It's the natural order of things. Big fish eat little fish - even if we little fish have 'em out numbered. Car dealers, predatory lenders and the rest of 'em could care less if someone's serving our country. A buck's a buck and so it goes. Tomorrow will be no different. Whoa Fookin' Nellie Kiddies... I'm whoopdiddlydo shocked y'all didn't know it!
Used car dealer=politician............ DO NOT TRUST EITHER.
I don't need to read this article to know that whoever wrote it has never served in the military or lived in or near a military town... and in some cases the sales person may be prior military.
Used car dealers are dishonest ? NO. Always test drive used cars, drive them to a mechanic and pay to have him inspect it. It could be the best money you've ever spent.
CarFax does NOT show all damage to a vehicle... the info in the CarFax database is based on information fed into the CarFax system.
I have bought 2 cars that I knew had wreck damage, and CarFax showed them both as having no wrecks or damage REPORTED.
CarFax isn't worth the paper it's printed on. People believe that a CarFax report tells you everything, but it really doesn't show you that much. It is okay for verifying title history/mileage accuracy, but that's about it. For example, CarFax records dealers as registered owners. When viewing a CarFax report, it will show the first owner (if a 1 owner car), but as soon as you register the vehicle it will show that second owner(the dealership) just transferred titles and it shows how long they had the title, maybe a few days, maybe a few months. This makes it look like you the third owner, not the second. CarFax doesn't do jack for showing accident and repair history. Most of the time it will not pick up body repairs. Only if there is a Police Report written at the accident scene and the damage is over a certain amount does it ever show up. I can tell you from being in the car business for years, that I saw cars all the time that had clean CarFax reports, but had obvious evidence of significant repairs. Poorly matched paint, bad metal work, evidence of flooding, mismatched panels, unrepaired damage etc.
CarFax is not a really reputable service... they're out to get your money.
put in a military base today... tomorrow there will be several jewelry stores, Car dealers, bars, brothels and liquor stores as close to the front gate as possible and within a mile of the gate - every free cop, county deputy sheriff will have ticket trap.
If you want to kill any southern town - just restrict the soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines to base for a few months.
I lived in a Army base town, both as a civilian, a military brat and as soldier - seen every kind of hell one group of people can put soldiers through.
As mentioned... most military towns don't see the patriotic side of having 17 - 20-something "Chuckle Heads" walking their streets every weekend looking for "outlets" to sate their appetites. If they could just get the money without giving them anything in return they would... the second best thing is to sell them something, next to nothing for the highest price possible.
Nothing new here ... its been this way since the Roman legions were trailed by "Camp followers" all over the Mediterranean.
History reports that even during WWII, more than one Commander at a military training installation was forced to attack a town or make the town off-limits ... to get a little balance instilled in the mercenary towns people.
Homie, you sound angry at Carfax, almost like it cost you a bunch of sales?
Are Carfax or AutoCheck going to be 100% accurate? In most cases not, but in this case, having an AutoCheck report beforehand would have told him there was a problem, so it would have been worth the money here (seriously, read the article).
Do you have any concept of how those services work? Of course they can only report what's been reported to them, how else would they get the data? Do you expect them to hire someone to follow every car around from the time it's built until the time it's dead? They're relying on repair shops and dealers to do the right thing and properly report all repairs. The last car I bought, the dealership the previous owner brought it to for service had uploaded all service records, including replacement of one of the rear panels (showed the reason and everything).
Should one rely solely on one of these reports? No, due diligence is still key, but they can be useful in many situations, this one being one of them. To blindly knock a service like this is somewhat naive
Where the hell have you been MSNBC? They've been doing this for 25 years.
As said already, this isn't anything new. When I was going to military school in the mid '80's, right outside the gate, within a few yards, were pawn shops and jewelry stores geared up for military people to come. The jewelry stores were a racket, as they would "be your friend" and help you get that engagement ring for your sweetie on contract, only the contract would be for around 20% interest on a lengthy installment plan to pay off the rock you just signed up for. Used car dealers were usually a little bit farther down the road, within a mile or two of the base, but they were there, within walking distance. It has gotten better somewhat, as the last duty station I was at before being discharged had only new car dealerships, and they were also about a mile or two from the front gate. Military commanders have been briefing people when they first come onto base for assignment about these shady places of business, so at least the bases are acknowledging this.
Again, nothing new here, I was in the Navy in the fifties, the car dealers, and other shifty businesses were working young military folk then. Being young, a bit naive, they are easy pickings for dishonest dealers.
Rule #1 - Always buy from a manufacturer direct dealer, whether you are buying new or used. On top of that be sure to buy the brand they represent if buying used. So if you are buying a used honda, buy from a honda dealership.
BREAKING NEWS!!!
Used car dealers are shady
My son was at Ft Hood and after he came back from Iraq he was going to buy a car there, but found out all the dealers around there were sheisty and many of his friends got ripped off. He waited til he got home on leave and bought it here for $200 over cost, saving thousands. I thought it was terrible how the dealers took advantage of the young soldiers and their wad of cash. You'd think they would be honest given what these guys had been through.
It's one thing to go after an ignorant civilian. We see commercials all the time for stuff like CarFax and the like. But if you do this to military personnel, you should be liable for treason. This is someone protecting you, defending your rights, and you're going to con them and try and beat them out of money? Are you frelling kidding me? Not just the banks and housing market, but CARS too?
Why the heck don't they just airlift these criminals straight into the warzone? Maybe they can beg Allah Akbar to spare their life before he cuts their head off and puts it on display. That or maybe send them into a mine zone to find mines. I have no love for people like this, I can't believe they'd try to take advantage of the people that stand on the frontline so cowards like this don't have to.
Maybe Jim Carrey can revive his character in "The Mask" where (while wearing the Mask) he goes into that auto repair shop with a couple of tail pipes to transplant into the rear ends of those thieving auto repairmen! It would work the same for auto salesmen who screw our Vets!
The banks have screwed over military families way more than these car dealers, I wonder where the uproar is about that
Uh, my family has been military for the past 46 years, and I don't know what the hell you're talking about, what the 81!
spider-737231
I've had my eyes, ears, and nose functional since 1981 and have no idea what you're talking about!!!
Banks screwing over military families? No way, they are the model of ethical behavior!!
You can't fix "ALL" the problems in one day. Since you are commenting - on the lack of concern about how Military people are getting screwed, I its fair to make the assumption you know a little bit about how to motivate soldiers or plan an attack.
You don't go head to head against the hard point, where the enemy is the strongest... unless you want to lose. You go against them were they are the weakest.
Fighting Banks and other financial institutions is a battle that Military units are not prepared to take on. But Military command can take on the predatory Used car dealers outside the post gate a lot easier. One dealer at a time. Those fly-by-night sleazy car lots don't own congress.
Get them the same way Base command has started to deal with Pay Day loan companies. Its working - even though some of the knuckle headed Troops keep finding ways to get in debt.
One base commander went tthe dealers and told them he was not going to sign any loans soldiers brought in which exceeded 15% interest (way too much, but was a start).
Problem was, he had another car lot - next town over. Yaaa, you got it - Jody and his buddies were drawn to the sleazy shop (since the dealer sent his "cool cars" to that town), they would send the idiots over there.
A fool will find ways to go broke, no matter how hard you make it for him to get robbed.
Tjese dealers know how the military works... they will lay low for a while, some new Full bird will get off the next plane and change the rules ... back to business like the good days.A new batch of idiots will come in on the next bus load and round and round we go again.... Nothing new, just the names change...
A Carfax report is a good start, but even then you have to be careful. When my ex was in the military we looked at a car in San Diego and it seemed like a good deal. We asked for a copy of the Carfax report. We verified that the car matched the one in the report (checked the VIN number). But when we got it home we discovered that they had entered some info incorrectly. It did not have a sun roof, premium wheels, leather seats, or several other extras/upgrades listed on the Carfax. When we went back to the dealer they refused to acknowledge the differences and wouldn't negotiate on the price of the car. So we went somewhere else!!
You have to be looking out for #1, because the car dealer is definitely looking out for him/herself.
Every state has a Department of Motor Vehicles that controls dealers licenses. This is where these abuses can be controlled, but only if the States and County DMVs want to control it. If a dealer knows there is a REAL threat of losing his/her license to do business, that will help to end these predatory practices.
What if the dealerships are related to the system? It is NC. NC is notorious for such kind of .... When I moved from NJ to NC, I thought I was moving to a place where people fear G_d as the state is cluttered with churches. I was wrong. I also found lots of statistics that indicate NC criminal activity in every sector is related to the education system. The more the education system is rotten the more likely people will engage in criminal activity that includes identity theft next up from Georgia. It will surprise you to find that late at night people go through trashes to find information about you. It is also a state with heavy corruption.
Don't buy from Flavius' Used Chariots, across from the Coliseum. He is a former Centurion, and a cheat.
I don't care if this post will be collapsed in a minute.
The emphasis of the article is wrong. Instead of inventing special measures protecting soldiers, the government resources, which are very limited, should better be spent on putting thieves and fraudsters out of business and, whenever possible, in prisons. They prey on everyone; soldiers just happen to be younger and less educated than the population in general, so they more often swallow the bait. However theft is theft, and fraud is fraud, no matter who is the victim.
People need to learn to use their heads for something other than a hatrack. That includes soldiers. Run the VIN#. If the dealer won't do it, go to another dealer. That will tell you all the info you need on that vehicle as far as damage and such.
As for this guy, go to the motor pool on base. Those guys are trained mechanics and many will do work on the side for a fellow serviceman.
This goes back to the banking situation when fools were being told they could afford a 400K home on a 40K a year salary. Don't believe everything you've been told. If the dealer won't put it in writing, it's not true.
Maybe one of the answers is to end the stupid policy that makes bad credit a reason for losing security clearance.
Maybe because it's NOT a stupid policy!!!! Huh, why are so many people going to jail for stealing? Maybe because we should end the stupid policy that makes stealing a criminal offense....get your head back on straight.
Also, this isn't a new problem that MSNBC just finally discovered....this has been going on since I joined the military over 20 yrs ago. Walk outside any military base and what do you see? Used car dealers, pay-day loan stores, fast food, and strip joints! Been like that for decades....military members are warned about these a-hole dealerships out there. The fact that they continue to go to them and subsequently get burned is on their own fault!
The policy is based around the idea that bad credit = significant debt and significant debt = more supceptible to monetary influence from those wishing to buy information, thus putting your clearance on questionable terms.
It was probably something learned awhile back when dealing with those who did trade secrets - that they were often in financial trouble and needed money, thus motivating them.
It's not a stupid policy to revoke security clearances based off of a bad credit history. A Soldier must be vetted to determine if they are able to hold a security clearance and are unlikely to be swayed by outsided or foreign influences to pass on sensitive information. If a Soldier has a bad credit history then they could be subject to monetary bribes and pass on information that could harm the country, himself, and his team mates.
jwilson "Walk outside any military base and what do you see? Used car dealers, pay-day loan stores, fast food, and strip joints"
perhaps its not predatory if this is what the soldiers are wanting to spend their money on? why blame the business that's catering to the dumb soldiers desires?
it's like poor people bitching about a lack of healthy food and grocery stores in their area, and there being nothing but gas stations & liquor stores. If poor people spent their money differently, there'd be different options.
If soldiers spent their money differently, there would be different options.
Stupid is as stupid does...and business owners (shady or otherwise) will always give the people what they want, not what they need.
Jessica - what an incredibly condescending reply... "dumb soldiers"? Frankly, to be a decent soldier takes more aptitude and intelligence than is displayed in many places.... such as directly above my post.
im only referring to the soldiers that spend all their money at sleazy car dealers, fast food and strip joints.
those who do not, are not dumb soldiers.
when the shoe fits, it should be worn. and yes, soldiers CAN be dumb.
donning a uniform does not eliminate stupidity. it really doesnt contrary to popular belief.
"Frankly, to be a decent soldier takes more aptitude and intelligence than is displayed in many places"
so you're admitting there ARENT decent soldiers as well? I agree with you, to be a decent soldier it does require those things...and I appluad our decent soldiers.
they are not all decent though. not even close.
In most of those towns, they set up those man traps specifically so they can restrict soldiers to those parts of town.
If the local cops see soldiers any where else, they will stop you and politely or with force "explain" that you need to be somewhere else. The towns people (right or wrong) are under the impression that soldiers = unwed mothers, fight, drunkeness... so, the cops are obligated to stand guard between the Virtue of their daughters and sobrity of their sons. Not to mention a bit of "envy". Kids in high school can't compete with soldiers for the favors of the local lasses. Private Jones can get a new car, can take her to the nearest big city... things a small town boy can't do.
So you have mobs of little farm boys, ganging up on soldiers and robbing them for sport.
We have dealt with Kia since 1995. Most recently a used car for my daughter. Kia's salespeople (of course) want to sale cars, HOWEVER, they are on salary not commission.
There is a big difference when the salesperson's salary isn't based off of "how many cars can I push this month?"
It's a whole different ballgame. Try it! I gave them 5 star reviews all the way around. & no I DO NOT WORK FOR KIA. I am a housewife.
Shalyse17; Thank you for pointing that out. I do sell Kias and it is the same way here. And we do offer a 4 day return policy on every car we sell. New or used the customer has 4 days to change their mind. We are not all thieves. The Air guard base is about 5 miles away and we have many customers from there. Thanks for your comments and I am glad your daughter likes her car.
Anyone buying a car should at least check out the vehicle's worth, and get a $20 Carfax report. Shame on these dealers for profiteering on the backs of those that serve. Whatever happened to honesty?
It's still where it's always been.
This is nothing new. It's almost like military tradition to have shady car dealerships surrounding base.
Our service men & women who are stationed on bases, where these "Thieves" set up their lots nearby, need to band together and tell ALL the others on base, so that not one person buys a car from them and forces them to close up !
It's bad enough to screw the general public, but NOT our soldiers who put their lives on the line, so these "Thieves" have their freedoms !!!!
There is NO HONESTY AMONG THIEVES! Face it, when you ask people to list the most abhorred occupations, the list usually starts with used car salesmen for a reason.
Here's a thought - it would seem more effective if the army provided mentors for making purchases that require loans.
Instead of holding a 1/2 hour meeting for incoming soldiers telling them what to be weary of, just make it super simple - you want to buy something that requires a loan and might impact your security clearance: you have to have a military provided mentor walk you through the process to ensure you arent screwed or making a bad personal decision (i.e. buying more than they can afford simply because that hummer is soooooooo cool!)
the reality is that young people, especially, cant just be told what to do...they have to be TAUGHT HOW TO DO IT. and since most are thousands of miles from their parents, who would normally be the one to help through things like this...it should be a priority of the military to fill that void.
It doesnt have to cost money, all soldiers should be working together. Let the older soldiers who've been well trained on finance to lead the way.
I know many people who have a vehicle that is a lemon, that clean it up and trade it for a newer vehicle. The cars go to auction and are bought by those small car lots that can be located outside the front gate of a Military Base. The dealer wouldn't know the car is about to blow up. I only buy used vehicles in excellent condition and low miles, so I pay a little extra and buy it from a new car dealers used car lot. They normally get the best cars and will stand behind any issues, up to a point. That's better then what you get from a small lot or one that has the "Buy Here, Pay Here" finance model.
My grandfather got out of the USN after WW1 in 1918. My father got out of the USN after WWII in 1945 or 6. I got out of the USN the end of 1972. I am somewhat not surprised that used car dealers that focus on the Military personnel have not changed their stripes one bit. Buy from a larger dealer, do extensive checks on the car by all means possible, and finance through someone else than the used car dealer.
The names may change - but the "players" remain the same. The issue with military bases and sleazy used car dealers is bad customer experience customers are gone in 3 to 6 months. So there is no lasting memory of how badly they are screwing those young soldiers - At the top of the list is these guy are like psychiatrist.
They know what these guy want - Something flashy, with horsepower that looks good
I'll let you in on an open secret... the dealers know exactly how bad those cars are, matter of fact, sometimes they will tell the soldier, all the problems. But them sell them based on the old "honesty" trick.
"ya, the transmission is not real good - but once you get that fixed, you got a prefect car." They he lays it on thick, "My mechanic told me it'll cost a couple hunn'ert in parts. You look like the kind of guy who knows his way around a wench... fix it your self and save the extra $1,500 they charge at the shops for couple of hours of work!". I know how hard it is for you young guys to make money - so I'm giving you deal, tell you what - I'll buy the parts and toss'em on the deal for free - if you buy today".
That gets them sold on the deal every time, not only is he getting a good (or so e thinks) - the salesman has buttered him up so good ... that the kid will be ashammed to bring the car, because that would be admitting that he was a good enough hot rodder/mechanic to do the job himself.
With the younger guys, if you appeal to their vanity or pride - they will never admit they got taken.
If I had a dollar for every one of my sailors who got ripped by a car dealer I could retire now. Car dealers are not as bad as they used to be though because the buyer comes to the table with a lot more information these days...the net is a powerful tool and it's something we didn't have back in the early 80s.
DSP - CAPT/USNR
even with the net they are getting ripped off, for ever new research tool out there they have made a new line to sucker that slick sleeve into a new lemon, even Virgina still supports the crazy laws that do not protect the buyer...
the best tool that is still out there is that savvy LPO taking care of his knucklehead
A a retired Veteran I am aware of these problems. Military personnel should always ask for a CarFax and get the history of the car. Military personnel normally have a stable job, credit, at least, and that makes them a target. If a dealership is having much trouble with a particular business the Post Commander can put that business off-limits to the Military. That may help.
Anyone and everyone should be asking for the CarFax report, but how many in that 18 - early 20s age range know that?
Personally, I'd rather see some shady car dealer locked in a room w/ a half-dozen Marines for thirty minutes. How many neighboring dealers will suddenly change their ways after "those nice young men very politely helped that car dealer up after he kept tripping and falling"?
First, I have never met anyone that has lost their clearance for bad credit. Im not saying it doesn't happen, Im just saying in the decade I was in the military I never saw it even once. Second, i have seen how young privates and specialists get ripped off. Not only on cars, but on the huge rims some feel necessary to put on their car. One place was financing them at over 17% interest and young soldiers were gladly lining up to get them put on. The article nails it when they say that this is their first major purchase, but the real problem is the money they are making overseas. A 19 year old will come back with over $10k in his pocket and he cant spend it fast enough even though they are told to think smart before throwing it away. All these car dealers should be ashamed at what they do because they know exactly what it they are doing and that it is morally wrong.
Oh yes, the credit report can and does cause one to lose a security clearance. My clearance was put in jeopardy because of a IRS mistake dealing with a business I once owned. I was investigated and I had to clear the blemish otherwise I would have lost my clearance and my job!
I come from a military family. This is nothing new. If one notices, between the used car lots and pay loan places along the highways outside of bases, the men/women are easy prey for these vultures. Make it illegal to charge such outrageous rates, and all will be well.
Um, the car dealers aren't "targeting" military members. They're targeting idiots. Go to a legit dealer so you don't get burned.
I agree, although the term "idiots" is a little strong. I would use the words "gullible" or "unsuspecting", which could apply to anyone from a first-time car buyer to someone who is just too trusting by nature. Unfortunately, it sometimes takes getting burned once or twice to learn your lesson. In this case, if you don't ask for and receive a carfax, then the best thing to do is high-tail it out of that place and look for a reputable dealership. There are dealerships and private owners out there that will rip you off for as much as they can, and every buyer needs to take everything with a big grain of salt when looking for a car (or any major purchase for that matter).
A large percentage of the military are young kids ranging from 18-22 years of age and usually only stay for 4 yrs. Think about it. Young age group, little or no credit but constant paycheck, probably first time away from home and in a new city. Parents are not there to steer them in the right direction. Gee..... that describes alot of kids who get their first credit cards in college eh?
Although the language is strong, I agree with the base sentiment.
These kids finish their tour and have combat pay burning a hole in their pocket. Most, as the article suggests, are naive, gullible, and ready to spend.
Drive through the parking lots at military bases and you'll see 4 and 5 month-old vehicles with "for sale" signs in the window. Brand new trucks and cars that the owner couldn't make the payments on.
I know some dealers are shady, but to place the blame directly on their shoulders is overly simplistic. The buyer is just as much, if not more, to blame.
The kids have never seen $20k in cash, much less had it in their posession. It should come as no surprise that a 20-22 yr old spends unwisely. The military should do a better job of educating these men and women about sound financial choices post-tour.
Rob "The military should do a better job of educating these men and women about sound financial choices post-tour"
in my experience, being told doesnt work as well as being shown.
we dont just TELL our soldiers how to do their jobs they are first SHOWN.
a high school education can NEVER prepare a 18-22 year old for this reality, because there's no way to show a high school kid how to be repsonsible and how to make good decisions until they are in the position of having to make those kinds of choices.
I am grateful I had my parents there to walk me through my first car purchase, it has helped with every purchase ever since. Of course, not everyone is as fortunate as I am to have been SHOWN rather than TOLD what to do.
A young kid, standing in a car lot staring at the car of his dreams has big trouble look at the price tag, and understand fully what that means.
frankly, soldiers shouldnt be buying cars that require loans in the first place. A $5k car should do them just fine while in the service...and they should easily be able to save that money up and not have to enter a loan.
You know you're close to a military installation when you see lots of used car dealers and pawn shops. Sounds like nothing's changed since I served in the Army. I remember guys who bought cars that seemed like a good deal at the time, but could barely afford to fill the tank due to the high car payments and insurance.
Cars dealerships cheating anyone is a disgrace,,,but fleecing these soldiers is just plain disgusting!!!! How un-american can you get!!! Shame, shame, shame!
If this happened to me, the dealership would be out of business in short order and so would the sales person.
Stop pretending you're some kind of Rambo. You're going to blow up the dealership and kill the sales person, and go to prison for life? Over a car? I don't think so.
Tom I think Pete was referring to the legal system over Plastic Explosives.
How about USAA getting more active with the active duty military personnel? USAA has both a new and used car buying service.
While using USAA would be preferred, their underwriting standards can be prohibitive for someone with less than perfect credit. Also, if you fall into their "Credit Profile Needs Improvement" category, the rate falls between 11.99% and 13.24%, which compared to a national bank with looser standards is horrible.
USAA has HORRIBLE rates - for car loans or home loans. Yes, they are very willing and quick to lend to servicemen and women, they really aren't competitive. They are a good option if your credit is questionable, because they will lend to you where others might say no, but generally, better to look elsewhere.
My hubby as been active for 18 years, and we are USAA for general banking (checking atm etc) but we take all our other financial business (loans, investmens, 529, 401k) elsewhere....
Jean, your'e right . I'D stay away from USAA.
USAA is no longer the exclusive small club of military officers and their families. they now are pretty much just like any other insurance company and their rates aren't nearly as competitive anymore. when you keep your risk low by only insuring to a lower risk pool (i.e. officers and their families), yeah your rates will be rock bottom. as soon as you open up the pool to (almost) everyone, the risk pool goes up and those with lower risk have to pay for those with higher risk. simple math.
First off I would like to thank those who serve to protect me and my family's way of life. Second of all, anyone that misuses our men and women in arms should be horse whipped, drawn and quartered. There should be a website just for military to protect them against these unscrupulous people. Once they join up this site should be posted for their protection. Anytime someone gets stung by one of these night crawlers, place there name and address on this site. Warn those around not to go to this place of "business."
Also, before I buy not only do I check Car Fax, but also check Ripoff Reports.com. There were times I would ignore this site thinking it was just embittered people, but I soon found out it was best to listen to the complaints on this site (it has saved me thousands of dollars).
So you slimy, disgusting rodents, be ware: WE ARE WATCHING YOU!! The Net is a horrible thing to waste!! Use it to prove the power of the people. WE ARE WATCHING YOU!! :(0
My recommendation....get the VIN of the vehicle you are looking at and get the Carfax yourself. A small dealership here was providing Carfax information to customers but come to find out he had altered the reports before presenting them to the customer. He got busted for it but??? is still in business!
Are you in Columbus, GA?
It seems the Carfax lawyers would go after these guys for misrepresentation or fraud. Maybe he just lost his Carfax access? I'd be after him if I could. I would think a judge would slam this guy pretty good.
Could be we've gone a little overboard with protecting the rights who prey on others. I served in the Marines in the early 70's and we had these characters with their lots around bases back then but rarely did they pull this kind of crap. I can remember a couple of instances when guys in our unit were taken by car dealers. They tried to get satisfaction the 'politically correct' way. When that didn't work a group of us paid the dealers a visit. We "negotiated" an agreement that was mutually beneficial to both parties. The Marines got their money back, the dealers got their lemons back AND didn't have their faces reduced to shredded wheat. Win-win. Whoa Fookin' Nellie boys and girls... some things about the good old days really were better.
Nobody is exempt from shady used car dealers. I'm thinking that one reason they open business near military bases is that they are hoping the purchaser has moved on to their next base or get deployed before the problems arise with the vehicle. That would make it more difficult to come back directly to them.
Caveat emptor (Buyer beware)
Anyone who has been near a military base of any type knows that the dealers are shady. There are also numerous pay day loan and pawn shops surrounding the bases.
That said, my exhusband who was in the Army (stationed at Ft. Benning GA at the time) was provided a Carfax report that was for a different vehicle than what he bought but altered to have the VIN and model number of the vehicle he purchased. When he tried to trade it in for a newer vehicle the Carfax the dealership printed showed that the mileage on the report was 125,000 more than what the car showed and the car had been totaled a few years prior. He received a clean title and was told that the car wasn't wrecked.
There are some shady folks out there that have no problems screwing over our service men and women.
Oftentimes these places are black listed, but soldiers who either don't have any credit or not much credit go there because they need a car. It really is sad.
Years ago the scam was with stolen vehicles, Dealer goes to salvage auction and buys lower mileage totaled vehicle. Gets a stolen one similar and presto clean low mileage used car! This was really bad when I was at Del Rio Texas, stolen cars "laundered" through Mexico virtually untraceable.
How do these people sleep at night?
Justamazin: People that can do these things don't have a conscious, so sleeping at night would never be a problem in the first place. :(
When I was in the USAF, Many years ago we used to call them Lemon Lots. I used to tell my new young troops that there are Two things that thrive next to a military base, Bars and used car dealers, they are there to relieve you of your money. Stay away from both and you will be just fine.
Don't forget stripclubs and tattoo parlars.
Also- motorcycles and booze,sadly.
Can these scumbags get any lower - all in pursuit of the almighty dollar??? God, praying on military families who sacrifice so much to protect our freedoms and liberties! Have these people no shame whatsoever? How do they sleep at night? I'll never understand how greed can trump values and morals in so many people!
That's why this country is sliding quickly into h*ll wearing gasoline drawers and holding a lit match. We have lost or morality and values.
First of all, make sure to let people know that these are junk lots. Most reputable dealers do not carry many if any cars over 5 years old. Go to a new car lot. Even if you purchase used, those cars must be checked over. And if something is missed and found out after purchase they will fix it so they will not get a bad reputation. Yes their cars may be a bit more pricey, but you get what you pay for. Also ever heard of Carfax? Do not buy from anyone who does not offer this service. I thought it was a joke when it first came out, but it is a wonderful tool to have at your fingertips. Any dealer that offers Carfax offers it free.
Like this is something new? Slow day in the old newsroom, so you brush the dust off of an old story and pass it off as something "new"
And you thought car dealers were "shady".
Do not count on carfax or autocheck. I have seen what should be total loss salvage show up as "good news no accidents" The insurance companys get a lot more money at the auction if its not reported. Sorry folks.
I totalled a car that was worth $10,500 & the insurance co fixed it because I owed 14K on it. $8500 was cheaper than 14K so they fixed it at their "APPROVED shop" so I assume they dont have to report the damage if they are in charge of what info gets entered in the system. My state is soft & tends to look the other way with big business. I was told in a state like new York they would have been required to total my car. I stopped paying on it & the bank had to pay the insurance co my $1,000 deductible just to go & repo the car. Its one big headache GONE.
It is JUST NOT THE Military it is VERY COMMON to the CIVILIAN BUYER !!!!
Like ROMPNEY-HO They are all FAST CON JOB ARTIST SALESMAN that are DEVIL worshippers of lying and persuading and not answering UP FRONT the questions !!!
It reminds me of the MOVIE FARGO. Macy the CROOKED SALESMAN !!!
They should be put to jail with a record so that they are never hired again as SALESMAN !!!!! What is wrong with this COUNTRY. The GOP in CONGRESS are even worse !!!!
Problem is these guys own their own lot. I bought a cadillac seville with 83K on it. It was listed as "No known problems". salesman says go out and drive it for about 10-15 minutes. So i did all was well & I drove the hell out of it. After I buy the car exactly 20 minutes later on the highway the cruise,speedo,tach start going crazy & the car starts changing speed rapidly. Turns out it had tons of electrical problems with the cluster & sensors in the transmission that only occurred once the car had been driven 20 mins or fully warmed up. Guess that was why he said drive it 10-15 mins. In the end I never registered the car in my name & just sold it to someone else. Of course I lost several thousands of dollars on the sale once I disclosed the problems. These car salesman know a hell of alot more about these cars then they lead customers to believe. The dealer I dealt with had a history of tampering with electronics in the cars. But he had 2 separate lots. One for "internet customers" & one for his local "Preferred" customers. It was new jersey. He also shipped vehicles via ebay to other states & those customers were very angry when they unloaded a ton of junk! Total scum. Lookup bella Motors Ewing, NJ & avoid them.
There is a simple solution to this. Do not buy a used vehicle, wait and save money to buy a new one. There are many cars that you can buy new for 16,000 dollars. Do not go to pawn shops. Do not go to Check Cashing establishments. Do not go to PayDay advance stores. If no one goes, then they go out of business. There are dishonest people in every profession on the planet.