E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Mike Blake / Reuters
A pair of elderly couples view the ocean and waves along the beach in La Jolla, Calif. More couples over 50 are living together (minus the marriage certificate) and for many money is a big factor.
Shacking up. It's not just for the kids anymore.
The number of people over age 50 who are living together romantically has more than doubled in a decade, from 1.2 million in 2000 to 2.75 million in 2010, according to an analysis of government data done by Bowling Green State University.
The 50-plus group represents nearly one-third of the approximately 7.5 million people of all ages who were living together in 2010, the researchers found.
But while young people tend to be testing the waters for marriage, experts say older people aren’t necessarily living together as a step toward tying the knot. They're doing it for the money.
“(They want to) enjoy many of the benefits of marriage without the burdens,” said Susan Brown, a professor of sociology at Bowling Green State University in Ohio who led the research.
Older couples may want to protect their individual nest eggs so they can pass the inheritance down to their kids. They also may not want to jeopardize a pension, Social Security payment or other benefit they are receiving because they are divorced or widowed. And they may not want to be financially responsible for the other person’s health care bills.
Some also may have a “been there, done that” mentality about marriage, Brown said. Her research found that 71 percent of older couples living together were divorced, and another 18 percent were widowed. On the other hand, she found, older people who end up remarrying are disproportionately widowed. (Brown has done other research looking at the surging divorce rate among older Americans.)
Tom Blake was 53 when his third marriage ended, and after the divorce was finalized he knew he wanted to start dating again. But he didn’t want to get married for a fourth time.
“I wasn’t looking for marriage, but I definitely wanted a relationship that was comfortable, enjoyable and non-confrontational,” he remembers.
Blake, who owns a deli in Dana Point, Calif., found that dating after age 50 was much harder than he had expected. His experiences eventually became fodder for a column and website that he’s been writing for almost 18 years.
Now 72, he’s been living with a woman for 11 years. They split their expenses evenly but keep their finances separate, an arrangement that he says has served them very well.
“What I learned for my own self was that I did not need to be married to be happy,” he said.
Some people prefer to keep their financial lives even more separate. Blake said he also hears from a lot of older people who are in long-term, committed relationships but don’t live together. He said some do that to keep the peace with their kids or grandkids who don’t like the idea of a live-in relationship.
Brown, the sociology professor, said the “living apart together relationship” is one she also knows exists but has had trouble quantifying.
“They’re very committed to each other (but they) don’t want to give up the autonomy that they have,” she said.
Although economics play a major role in these late-in-life relationship decisions, Brown said there are also noneconomic reasons older couples aren’t getting hitched.
Brown said some older women want a live-in relationship, but there’s something about actually getting married that seems stifling.
“They’ve taken care of one husband and raised one family, and they don’t want to do that again,” Brown said. “And they feel that if they get married that’s the underlying expectation.”
Leave a Comment:
Is this a trend limited only to the over 50 demographic? I know several young couples in their late 20's, 30's and early 40's who've been living together for years without getting married for financial reasons as well. Even though some of these people share children together, they don't share a joint bank account. I think the prospect of divorce and the ensuing payout scares many men away from modern marriage.
You're absolutely right Jenny. Men get screwed in court when it comes to divorce so why take the chance. One of my friends had to pay his ex wife a monthly stipend even though she had a degree and he didn't. Just because he earned a large enough income so she could stay home for 20 years they tried to say she had no marketable skills to work. Give me a frickin break, since when is a Bachelors Degree not marketable???? On top of that she got half of his retirement and the house. What did he get???? The chance to pay for it all. Until the court systems catches up from the 60's you will see much more of this co-habitation without marriage. It just makes financial sense for men.
There are many burdens with marriage created by laws which limit older marriages but I think in reality this is the same group of people that created in mass living together without marriage in the 60's and 70's. They are just going back to what was normal.
Single is just so much easier. If one of you are unhappy, you can walk away.
Interesting point Jenny, but being in my 30th year of practicing divorce law, the point is outdated. Things have changed and almost as many women as men feel they get "screwed" financially with either alimony or property division. The thing I find funniest that although I am a divorce lawyer, more than 1/2 of my cases involved people who are unmarried and I find that long-term couples who don't marry always have one of them who gets "screwed" when they split. In my state if Both parties pay all expenses and the mortgage on a home one of them owns and they split, the one not on the title gets nothing, which isn't the case if they were married. If one has a 401K at work and contributes, the other has no claim. If they own property together and cannot reach an agreement to sell they cannot get a court to rule on an equitable distribution, instead getting only a ruling that the house will be sold at auction and the proceeds split evenly;y among the owners, despite relative contribution. In fact even in a joint tenancy situation one of the parties could actually sell their share, without consent, entitling the buyer to just move right in. Living together which I did with my wife before marriage seems best for those with significant assets, or those with none, but not for those in-between. Yes, I do love being married. Single best thing in my life.
Marriage has many benefits, but it also contains serious risks. Its for better or worse, and health expenses of a spouse can make your live saving go in the blink of an eye. This is a great issues with older people, but some get some big benefits if you have children the benefit of being married, can be a $10,000 a year tax refund. I see people who are not married file jointly, and get the refund but it look like tax fraud to me, a boyfriend can not claim children of his girlfriend. Beware of the common law marriage trap if you go to some state and register as Mr. and Mrs. you are married, because any holding out is a common law marriage. Jumping over the broom in Oklahoma, use to be enough, because any marriage ceremony creates a marriage, some state marry you if you live together for eight years, and having children creates a marriage in some states. It creates possilble gay marriages, because the statutes probaly assumen where talking man and woman, but may be poorly worded. Two women can now have a baby together, as the can produde sperm cell from skin cells, so ladies have a baby is some states that will never have gay marriage common law may tie the naught, guys your out of luck on this one. Our state pass a law the a visit of a common law state does not create a valid common law marrage, but i believe it has a defect and that the state law of the state you visit would have to hold the exception. I do not belive we can viod a valid marriage of another state.
The ten states that still recognize common law marriage are: Alabama, Colorado, Kansas, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Iowa, Montana, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania and Texas, as well as the District of Columbia. In addition, five states allow those established before a certain date to be recognized. Nevada is not one of them, and if that changes we will update you here on the website.
VD is epidemic in old people. The clap is back.
I lucked out - my ex-wife screwed herself, which I suspect what happens when one engages in an adulterous affair; they simply want to get out of the marriage without putting much thought into the consequences. In my case, she waived her rights to her share of my retirement and left me the house. And she ended up having to pay me child support (for one year anyway).
But the comment I really want to make has to do with this silly notion of protecting your assets you you can leave a legacy behind for your children - what a misguided notion! Let your little darlings earn their own way - you certainly earned yours. Why should you forego enjoying your golden years for the sake your of offspring? The best thing you can do is spend it all before you die. And if you have any left over, donate it to a charity.
I almost agree with Gumps although I do "help" the younger generation until they can get things going. However, no free rides!!!
It's not just the clap that's back. One of the highest incidences of HIV is in a particular retirement community in my county in Fla. Seems the old guys all go get their Viagra prescriptions but forget about condoms--and their trusting partners don't realize they are in danger!
I don't care whether anyone is married or not. However, the same rules for safe sex apply regardless of age or marital status.
Gumps,
You really are a miserable SOB. How selfish can one person be to wantonly spit on their progeny. I hope your kids (and hopefully you did not grace the world with your befouled DNA) dance on your grave.
@Roscoe a degree does not guarantee good income, I make less than half of what my ex makes, and I have a more advanced degree, BUT I was a stay at home mom for more than 5 years, after working part time for 3 ( after putting him thru school)...then he cheated, we divorced and it has taken me 4 years back in the work force for me to earn what I was making when I left...I am competing with younger people with the same degree, who do not have the responsibility of teenage children, so they can take less money...trust me, having a degree does not guarantee more money.
"Shacking up"?!
Who writes this sort of drivel? A person with a very limited world view and vocabulary?
Based on what I read in the media, there are no good schools of journalism.
People in general are getting more wise in regards to marriage. They are realizing that marriage is simply a really f***ed-up Vegas game.
You have a 50/50 chance of winning/losing (divorce rate). If you lose, you give up half your assets, some of your retirement, and make monthly payments to the other person. If you win, nothing changes and you continue your life the exact same way it has been going while you live together.
If you went to Vegas, and there was a game where you risk half of everything you own on the chance of keeping the money you already have... would you play it? Of course not.
Besides a tax benefit... which is a welfare handout for married couples (ironically most of these people complain about other handouts)... what else?
Chuckzul, wait until Gumps kids pick out his nursing home!
@Gumps
You sure sound bitter, like the world sh!t on you. Well, guess what the world has sh!t on many of us and we're not sounding bitter like you. Suck it up and move on. Help your kids if you can, if not be there to back them and encougage them.
@Tac210 I agree with you that a degree does not mean a higher paying job. My point is that it does mean you can work if you want to. I know several women who choose not to work and live off of the Alimony and Child Support payments and in this day and age of equality between Men and Women that's not how it should be. If you want equality then get a job instead of leaching off of your ex.
sharriannie,chuckzul, and others who seem to think I'm bitter simply because I do not subscribe to the silly idea of depriving yourself simply for the sake of leaving a legacy for your kids - I am not bitter at all. And know, I don't think the "world sh!t on me". I simply don't see how you folks are doing your kids any favors by leaving them a large sum of money. If they are responsible and manage their finances properly then they don't need your money. If they can't manage their finances then leaving large sums of money is like leaving an alcoholic the keys to the winde cellar - bad idea.
I am doing quite, well thank you very much, in my retirement. My kids are self sufficient, so I don't feel an obligation to risk my financial future by giving money to either of them, so-signing loans or doing any other foolish things that you folks seem to think is okay to do. When I die, my assets will go to my wife - when she's gone, the assets go to charity - that's our choice. And no, Rick, my kids will not be "choosing a nursing home" for me. I'm in excellent health. I don't need anything from my kids and they don't need anything from me. Now, if you'll excuse me, it's time to put a bottle of bubbly in the fridge for happy hour later today.
Roscoe - I can pretty much guarantee you, a degree will get a stay-at-home Mom no where after she's been out of the job market for 20 years. Her "skills" would indeed be unmarketable, esp. in today's economy. And why would you be surprised that she gets half? I can't think of any instance where assets in a divorce wouldn't be split in half. It never makes a difference who made more money. If she got the house, then part of her asset "distribution" would have gone to effectively buy his half out, most likely.
Dude, if you're not married already, I'd say you're probably one of those men who should remain single. But would you have the same attitude if you found a rich woman?
I have to agree with Gumps. My kids know that I plan to spend what I made. Hopefully it will last as long as I do. If there is anything left, they get a bonus. I don't know when the boomers etc. decided that they deserve an inheritance and have made their parents believe it also. I see so many older people give away, put in trusts the money that they made for a rainy day. When that day comes, they go onto Medicaid so that you and I can pay for the nursing home while the kids enjoy the money that should have paid for their care. Luckly my parents' money was down to the last $5000 when Mom died. My Dad took care of them which is what they wanted and what I hope for.
I don't understand any of what is going on today in society. Like Roscoe for instance. woman should work instead of leaching off your ex? Umm...the father should not be financially responsible for his children? Women are just lazy? What is a mother to do with her children? Should she hand her children over to the state to care for them? What are you thinking?
I am in my mid-fifty's. Shacking up in my mind means having a sexual relationship without marriage. Ummmm.....don't want to break it to you but that is not the main goal with people in their 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. It is about companionship.
Yes, many women (especially widows) don't want to marry again. They are tired of being caretakers. Women are not into the whole cooking and cleaning submissive "pleasing the man" thing. At this point in life what is important is taking care of each other. There are no gender roles. I know this might be a difficult concept for some of you to grasp, but you do what you have to for each other as equal human beings.
This whole issue apppears to revolve around "money". I hate to break it to some of you but at some point in time in life there are some things that are more important than the God almighty buck and fitting in with "society's standards". Some of us are all done with the fear and guilt thing. This is certainly not something that needs an apology.
@Rubytuesday Alimony and Child Support were never meant to be an "Occupation" They were put in place to help you get back on your feet after a Divorce and to take care of the children's needs. If your children are of school age then there's no reason you could not work to help support yourself. I would feel ashamed taking money I didn't earn and sitting on my butt just because the law says I can.
Roscoe, I don't know any woman with children that can afford to live on alimony and child support alone.
Well Ruby, I know several and I think you'll find it's more common than you think.
Marriage makes sense if you plan to raise children. But, my sweetie and I are long past child bearing years. We both were in long term marriages earlier in our lives and we thoroughly enjoy spending family time with our children and grandchildren from those unions. There are plenty of faux "marriages" that exist on paper only. Marriage is a state of mind. I feel blessed that after suffering through many miserable grief filled years of a "conventional" marriage, I found my true life partner. We are now enjoying our second decade together. We love each other very much and we and are contented with our "unconventional" marriage.
My mom and her significant other have been together 25 years. They would lose income and be unable to enjoy life as they have it now.
They are happy, I am happy for them. What is a piece of paper, it certainly doesn't make a "marriage"! My mom is 74 and my "stepdad" is 83......also he still works everyday!!!
mmmmmmmm living together is NOT the christian thing to do.. especially when you are able to get married.. I am a gay man with my partner for 28years.. and because of the christians (LOL) in this country I am unable to marrty.. now there is another christian value HATE.. so I b3elieve if u r able to get married u should be made to marry , else live alone and date.. now remember according to your bible having sex is a sin
I asked my pastor about this a while back. I asked if he would be willing to bless a union for an elderly couple without registering the marriage with the state. He indicated that he was all for civil disobedience. I found that quite enlightening.
Roscoe,
Degree or not, being out of the workforce for twenty years definately DOES make one less marketable.
I too got the house along with the mortgage. I too received child support and I had the four kids. He used to complain that he had to give me 30% of his wages. I told him that it would be real nice if I could have 70% of my wages for myself but I used it to provide a good home for my kids and myself. I don't regret it one bit. My kids are wonderful adults with strong work ethic and are always available for each other and myself.
Hebrews 13:4-7
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." So we say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?" Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.
Sorry jizzy.. but until you've walked a half block in someone else's shoes,
then you can quote old testement scripture..
As someone who is on their 2nd marriage, I would say, if my wife and me were to part ways, (and am in my 50's) I wouldnt remarry.. don't know if I'd date for a long while..
Why wouldnt a couple just live together? What does that piece of paper get a couple?
my shoes have walked for many miles...from jericho to jerusalem...jordan to egypt...ethiopia to tanzania...
they understand...~squeak...~squeak......let them quote the truths of God
"..they understand...~squeak...~squeak......let them quote the truths of God.."
Smiling politely....backing away slowly....
they will not follow you...but it seems comical to picture this frightened person
though also sad, the people here are not brave...and not brave with their own actions! to try to be different from those who fail
BARF!!!
Todays marriage is an elaborate "ceremony" in which at the end you get a signed piece of paper saying your "married". Two people who love and are dedicated to each other, in God's eyes that is marriage. They cling only to one another forsakening all others and they are there for their partner when they are sick. Marriage is so much more than a piece of paper. I know some people who are more commited to each other than couples with a signed document.
Thou shalt not kill.
...i believe a marriage is a marriage in Gods eyes. man & woman. it is a declaration and with that you put your trust in one another as it is something more than two people bleeding together over time reaping and plundering the benefits along the way. it is a promise to God as well as to the other person who is now united with you.
it is worth waiting for rather than dying for as most cases today involving
lust based relations.
Regardless of one’s position on living together, perhaps, before or instead of marriage, the fact is the America has become a cohabitation nation. Years of condemnation and negative research studies have had no effect on slowing the rate of cohabitation since most couples reject the guilt laden, fear-mongering attempts to discourage their living arrangement.
Instead, most cohabiters fear a failed marriage even more than the criticism, so opt to live together despite the odds. Now over 60% of all couples who marry will cohabit first and while the rate of marriage continues to decline, the rate of cohabitation will skyrocket since 75% of high school students believe living together is worthwhile and harmless.
Additionally, many of the latest blogs and newspaper stories like this one that is critical of cohabiting are either using old research, in some cases going back years or the researchers are being quoted, out of context, to substantiate the reporter’s personal bias. Regardless of the results from the studies on cohabitation, please show me one couple who falls in love, decides to cohabit but as a result of a study on the downside of cohabiting, cancel their plans.
Furthermore, if you consider the decades long trend… did you know that getting married increases the possibility of getting divorced to nearly 50%. However, when was the latest time you talked to someone who was planning a wedding but called it off due to the often-quoted, well known 50% failure rate of marriage?
Like it or not, for many, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie who just got engaged are the new family role model and cohabitation has become a viable institution for over 12 million Americans. Furthermore, if you base your anti-cohabitation opinion on concerns about children and family stability… here’s an interesting little known fact. A child born to a cohabiting couple in Sweden is more likely to grow to adulthood in the same stable home with the same unmarried parents than a child born to amarried couple in America.
Cohabitation does not destabilize marriages or families… people who do not understand commitment do. The goal needs to be teaching the meaning of commitment and walking down the aisle does NOT mean commitment. Another recent study found that among newlyweds… the ones who DID walk down the aisle, 1 in 4 men and 1 in 5 women had an affair within two years of the wedding. Obviously, for millions of newlyweds, the wedding did not increase their commitment.
The point here is that while many promote marriage as the “gold standard” for what ails American families, keep in mind that ANYONE of legal age can marry. On the other hand, I think we need to be putting more of an emphasis on building COMMITTED relationships which is something that requires lots of hard work and emotional maturity and can happen WITHOUT marriage, as evidenced by the Swedes.
Yes, let’s keep pushing for changes that range from city initiatives by the clergy to educate couples before marrying, to changes in tax laws or to elimination of no-fault divorce. At the same time, let’s work to develop a productive response to the millions of cohabiting couples who are far too often judged, condemned and ignored by society.
I think we must “re-invent” and raise our expectations of cohabitation, and our attitudes toward those who decide to live together. There is a commonly held myth that marriage means you will “live happily ever-after.” However, there is no similar assumption of cohabitation other than “it won’t last” which helps create a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It’s time to take a serious and non-judgmental look at cohabiting couples of all ages and help them strengthen and sustain their relationship whether they ever plan to marry. Let’s consider finding a new approach to this reality.
and time and time again man made logic is confronted by blind spots
here you do not believe there is an issue...until you hit a bump in the road and someone is dead
to trust in ones self is to fail if there is no faith in God
to become obedient to his law is to discover his blessings, they do not fall from the sky to the pagen because he simply demands by rights of a perceived entitlement.
undisciplined...he insists that God serve him...the creation.
jizzy, perhaps John Curtis Ph.D. could perscribe some meds for you.
much like a bird, your people say simple things. trained to walk a straight line when they have emptied the vineyard themselves.
but where is your contribution? i feel so many of us are simply stacking the boats with words upon words that become the weight to their own drowning.
the sarcasm will be your only friend
understood and you have rights, but you see the failed attempts at breaking truth? Im sure Adam and Steve could raise a child and maybe a wolf well, but just because marriages dont always work does not mean they are not true or mythological. Marriage is still the ultimate sacrifice and the ultimate definition of marriage and love evolves only by going through storms together. Death solely happens because of sin, and life has unforeseen sudden disasters. It does not mean you re define the self evident truth. Co habitation is about the money and the lack of trust in love and wants the feelings without the risk and that is why so many will not come home to the Father our Creator. Not brave enough to take a risk and fail and get back up again. God wants to know us based on a relationship where we are honest about our sin and failure and admitting and being vulnerable He can make us strong by His power and grace and righteousness not by our fleeting modern "new age" opinions and mans wisdom that perish's with new seasons and new generations til the next idol comes along to worship.. there is truth and half truth and lies, the half truth might as well be a lie. But free will we can do what we want , but judgement is not all bad when humans who know truth out of love are trying to share the truth with others so they will not end up down the road wrong and deceived and looking and searching for some "new" other way. Lies are dead ends. The fact that we can learn truth and try to raise a good child or live a good life should be evidence God exists and truth exists, if man can perform it and recognize it than he/she is without excuse. But to think marriage is irrelevant and that some other way to raise children is OK when a man and woman is required to reproduce a child , another way to fill in the work it takes to love and teach truth and the sacrifice to raise a child is far more meaningful than knowledge and understanding truth and trying to mimic it.
adam and steve are children who have not been raised by people but by machines that entertain them.
machines for which we replace the beauty of the earth
in favor of artificial existence and values.
to live for today ...until tomorrow comes
Double BARF!!!
John Curtis, PhD, commitment is really only an issue where children are concerned. I think for anyone else, it's a matter of what the individuals involved want--and that they are truthful about it.
Barabas, who gave you the Christian Caffeine this morning?
Well Jizzim Bugaboo your bible rant has no real impact on people who go through difficult marriages or messy divorces. Each state's laws over ride all that religion babble. Unless you can settle it amicably the lawyers feast on your assets like hungry vultures.
Judge Wade McRee must like your photo
...pity
i agree, it has no impact with them.
yes our society is a theme park and monopoly board rather than a free country.
Those that can DO, Those that can't try to TEACH, Perfect Example!
I was in a cohabitation situation with my former boyfriend - both in our 50s and both had gone through divorces. After 4.5 years we split up. It was no less painful in parting than had we been married. However, the financials all of the way around were easier as we each had our own thing going and we were not fettered with the legalities of being married.
This country is making a move away from morality in short order. The liberalism is sparked that movement by design. Just 50 years ago you would have never heard a story like this. Liberalism was but an infant then but the concensus the liberalism approach was taken to heart by many to have the motto "if it feels good do it".
The lack of morality will eventually take a turn to take this nation to it's knees it already hasn't with the liberals suuporting anything but common sense and christianity. The bashing of religion is gaining strength, the basic ideal the founding fathers focused on. Those ideas are deemed OUTDATED, if they are actually outdated we as a country are in trouble....just IMHO. That and $1.98 buys a dr. pepper..
The founding fathers created separation of church and state for a reason, how come you don't want to accept that? They saw the problems when the religious right starts to try and take over..... why do you think they came to this land anyway? Now they are trying to do the same as what they ran from.....
justreddy64, what a crock of horse poop. Liberalism is the root of all evil eh? And that's what's motivating old couples moving in together? Did you bother reading the article? I've got a news flash for you: I live in a Sun City development and a large percentage of residents here are extremely right wing conservatives - so much that it almost makes me want to puke sometimes. At any rate, I'm sure that there's more than a few of them who have decided to "shack up" together - for the reasons mentioned in the article. Political affiliation has nothing to do with it.
Jizzy, you have beliefs, practice them. Be an example for others to WANT to follow out of their own "free will".
Jizzy, aka morphine carnival, time to increase your dosage. The meds ain't cutting it.
This doubling up in life without the legal filing of a marriage "license" is becoming quite the norm. I never thought I would find someone I'd actually love living with but I did. My independence and freedom is very important to me and I didn't want to have to sacrifice that. Neither of us wants to ever go to the town hall and file for a license to validate our togetherness. We have an amazing thing between us. And the whole definition of marriage has been twisted so much lately that we hate the term.
We don't feel as though our "rights" are in question at all. We have life insurance on each other, are named beneficiaries on each other's retirement plans, have named each other medical proxy, and have our financial agreements in place. I don't think I've ever been happier with my life and my choice to share my home with this person. The fact that the expectations won't ever change due to marriage and some subconscious insecurities that about the "roles" one should play after marriage have been totally eliminated. This type of partnership is just surprisingly awesome. I don't ever think "Hey if this guy really loved me, he'd marry me". Not that I am anti marriage. Not at all . It's got a sanctity to it, at least that's how I was taught to view marriage. But I was raised Catholic and when one took the sacrament of marriage, it was to join in union with God included in the relationship. God is a part of our relationship, very much so. We just don't want to go before any organized or legally sanctioned institution to have them sign off on our vow to each other.
The fact you are named beneficiaries on a retirement plan means absolutely zero. That could have already been changed by the time I type this comment. If you were married this couldn't happen legally without the written, notarized assent of the spouse. Huge difference between a legal obligation and a few meaningless words. As a far as God being part of marriage? Not for these two atheists, married by a justice of the peace, in the VFW.
Barabas.... your point of view is only valid IF you are religious, but if you're not then none of it is important. To me, who used to be Catholic, all that fiction of believing that god judges you and you're going to heaven... is all dribble, especially when you consider how christianity came about via Constantine and how he and his guys decided on christ's divinity, virgin birth and all the other lies that were told in order to keep controlling the masses.... in the face of NO concrete evidence and guilt trying to make you do what they say.... there is NO proof that religious marriage makes people faithful, not lie, protect their families or anything else since their statistics show the same failings for all humans. Period.
All that about "you better live like this or you're going to hell" is frankly laughable. We make our own hell right here and people like you (judgmental, closed minded, critical and nasty) are they ones who create it.
I cohabitated with my partner for 3 years before my Catholic mother obtained her goals of nagging / guilting and harrassing me into marriage, but she only got a civil union and that was thanks to our Bishop who told her it was better than having a religious one go bad.... we were both divorced and the church punished us by not allowing us to marry in the church because we deigned to divorce (my husband's wife was unfaithful and my ex turned out to be a drug dealer) people who were not worthy of our trust, what hypocrisy, it was then and there we decided to become agnostic and now with all the circus around the election - we are glad we are and aren't a part of it!
Not at all true in some states Jeff. I can name anyone I want as my beneficiary to my life insurance, retirement, investment accounts, bank accounts or any other holding. I can change my beneficiary with my mood if I want to and my husband wouldn't know a thing about it until I die.
What is true in one state is not true in all states.
I think for some in the 50+ group, there is a very real chance that a spouse has died. Some do not want to marry again out of respect for the departed and their children. I think I would say the same, because in my mid-50's I would be married for 30 years or so. The love of my life, and the mother of my children, nobody would be able to replace her. Sure I would eventually find someone special, for physical contact and companionship. But I would make no bones about it, there would be no potential for marriage, and no matter what happens I plan on being buried next to my dear wife.
I could imagine being with someone in that situation, but I could never live with them under those circumstances (date them sure, but live with? no). I don't need to be reminded 24/7 that I'm just not that important.
That's a completely reasonable position on your part.
When speculating the possibilities of such events, my tact would be to seek out a woman with a similar mindset. Men die sooner than women, I would assume there would be some ladies with concurring viewpoints. It's not that the other person is "not important", it's more about honoring the memory of someone you had been with for longer than the years you have left.
"never say never" My spouse died after 27 wonderful years together. I am now engaged to a widow of the same experience.
I agree. I am 62. My husband has been the love of my life and is very seriously ill. I have stated many times I will never remarry. That doesn't mean I would not enjoy someone's company of the opposite sex should my husband pass before me. But I just have absolutely no desire to ever remarry at my age.
And as odd as my comments seem, I think more ladies would be agreeable to such arrangements of living together - rather than being part of the "Condo Cowboy" phenomenon. If you search the web, you'll find out where one of the biggest growth demographics of HIV/STD is: the 55+ group. It is widely known that in retirement villas (etc), that the shorter lifespan of men can cause as much as a 4:1 disparity of the genders. This leads some lonely older ladies to accept that the older "single" men are allowed to keep a 'stable' of girlfriends. That combined with naivete about HIV/STD, has caused a nearly exponential increase of infections.
I am 58, my husband is 72 and in ill health. I would never remarry and would enjoy being single and independent once again. The children are adults and 2 still live with us due to being in college and this is the only way they can accomplish this but once they are gone then we will all move on.
I enjoy spending time alone, this is solitude and not loneliness and it's different. I have been working my whole life and there's doubt we will receive the social security we are entitled to.... might mean to move to a small apartment somewhere and that's ok, I will lower my expenses and go on.
See, we are not as dumb as you think we are.
If there aren't kids involved, then marriage is much less important. I know I wanted to get married and have kids, but that option never presented itself. Now that I am going on 40 and kids are nearly impossible, then marriage just isn't as important anymore. I mean, I have a house, a job, health insurance, retirement accounts etc., so what's the point? You don't need marriage for companionship, so it makes perfect sense for the older crowd. Whatever works for them.
We have been married for 21 years and are childless by choice. I still cherish and value my marriage more than anything else in my life. I had to make a choice back then if I wanted to pursue a teaching career, I would have to leave the area, so for me to stay in my relationship, I felt I needed more than just cohabitation to make that sacrfice. I got a proposal, a happy life, and it was worth it all. Marriage is important to me. I did not marry to reproduce - I truly married for love. Didn't have two nickels to rub together when we started and now DH has a successful business that has allowed me to leave a corporate job after 20 years to start my own business. He is my partner and best friend and I'm very glad to be "missus"!
how can two flesh become a perfect one when the fleshy temple has been taken down by the enemies of skin nation?
when you do not save yourself for marriage, and you recklessly join with others for pleasure and satisfaction but do not become satisfied with the overall sight of your life.
you forget truth, you offer up your loyalties to strangers. your body changes and allows alien intrusion of cells to enter and attack your health and your self perception.
you are not the same undiluted body you had been when you were a virgin.
now you are in ruins, i hear a voice cry out from within your city walls...let me in! save me from despair...but i cannot stand to see the sight of you, for i know you will only make attempts to decieve me as you had once been yourself.
Jizzy, to avoid suffering, one must not love. But, then one suffers from not loving. Therefore, to love is to suffer, not to love is to suffer, to suffer is to suffer. To be happy is to love, to be happy, then, is to suffer, but suffering makes one unhappy, therefore, to be unhappy one must love, or love to suffer, or suffer from too much happiness — I hope you're getting this down.
He that abideth in truth will have frankincense and myrrh smeared on his gums in abundance, and he shall dwell in the house of the Lord for six months with an option to buy. But the wicked man shall have all kinds of problems. His tongue shall cleave to the roof of his upper palate. And he shall speak like a woman, if you watch him closely.
The wicked man shall be delivered into the hands of his enemy, whether they can pay the delivery charge or not. I shall walk through the valley of the shadow of death... In fact, now that I think of it, I shall run through the valley of the shadow of death, cos' you get out of the valley quicker that way. And he that hath clean hands and a pure heart is OK in my book. But he that fools around with barnyard animals has got to be watched.
passion and love are two different things.
for your passion you suffer. for it is so closely seen as the light of our love that we forget the person we were meant to love and focus on satisfying our passion instead. until you do not see or understand them any longer
Triple BARF!!!
I am so tired of the religious trying to tell me THEY are the ones that know how to live. Jeez.... keep it to yourself and live how you want to live and let the rest of us take care of our own lives.
All this dribble about lies, sin, etc is all man created in order to control the masses! Yet we see "you" (the religious ones) committing the same lies, sin, etc. as the rest. Hypocrisy isn't a very good example of anything....
~but nothings real is it...though you see people doing it.
and it makes you sick inside to see it doesn't it~
who will take arms and lay with this mad cow?
...i fear many will fall prey to this encouraged spread of decay
Jizzy,
Are you on Morphine right now?
america has become the haven to all disgrace amongst the world,
every nation has come to know her as this.
for this you should fall to your knees and rebuke the life you've been given as if you had been betrayed to be given a life like this.
when you understand that your blessings have betrayed you naturally in this world
Then why don`t you get off these American boards and go back to whatever hell hole you are from
i will be going back to tanzania to volunteer for the orphanage a second time, and then to india and tibet to volunteer in various ways. i expect i will be gone for 9 months and will be leaving within 2 to 3 months time.
wow msn where have you goofs been for a generation. this greedy geeezer shacking up story is old as the hills. when it became O.K. for seniors to shack up than it became O.K. for the rest of us to shack up.
trust in God and he will never leave you,
someday you will die and your broken temple will be laid to dust
believe in his promise
and you will be rebuilt once again to never mistake his truth again as you once had
learn to become content with the order you have been given, that you do not fall to your death in silent protest of your very life.
a life which in itself is a gift and an entrance to life if you are wise to accept it
Jazzy is just a troll, looking to upset everyone.
no, i am trying to say something reasonable to you...people who live without reason
Yet you speak in riddles with no reason. You can't be reasoned with because you have a god complex which prevents rational thought. Good luck with that.
i am sorry you read this as a riddle...
you are young
God help the men that have built their private shrines and pedestals. Man has made it so hard and judgemental for others to have a relationship with God. Do good, and love others... even the Steves and Johns, and Jizzys" Be still and know I am God". "Where two or three are gathered in My name, there am I." You don't need to be in a man made building with 100's of others. You don't need to listen to someone telling you how to live or what to do. If you ask God, He will guide you.
Believe in his promise? Does that include his promise to answer prayer? Yeah - try telling that to the parents of the thousands of children dying of cancer and other painful terminal illnesses in hospitals the world over. Oh, maybe those parents forgot to pray... Yeah, right.
yes~ ...you know... i am employed in wisconsin
If your god created everyone IN HIS IMAGE, mind you.... and we are all children of god then WHY BULLY AND MISTREAT GAYS? ANYONE DIFFERENT FROM YOU? We are all equal and should be treated as such not just by the law but by man as well, so stop your preaching about you "knowing the truth" because your words and examples truly tell us what you are.....
A decent man conducts himself decently and treats everyone with respect. Period.
i think you are mixing american values with the laws of the old testament and are becoming confused inside over this.
Some of the older crowd are just living together for companionship, financial savings, NOT "living in sin". One of my friends is disabled and she lives with a man who physically can't have sex. They like each other like brother and sister, look out for one another and share the bills and chores. She says she especially likes that there is someone who worries about her if she's not home on time. They are both happy with the situation of living together and can't imagine getting married. This works for them, what's wrong with that?
Nothing, these kinds of judgements should be left where they belong. We are supposed to live in a free country and are Constitutionally entitled to have our OWN beliefs.
Going on eight years now living together. There are many financial benefits, but what makes me nervous (even though we have medical proxies for each other) is what our legal rights are in a medical emergency. We are not married; will a hospital tell me I can't visit a "families-only" section of the hospital? What if something landed one of us in jail .... only families can visit. Antiquated rules, but when push comes to shove......
Dianne, you need to go to a lawyer and fill out forms for Power of Attorney, Health Care Surrogate or Proxy, and a Living Will or Health Directive. Be sure you also have the form that allows the surrogate access to the medical information. It sounds like you already have at least one of these. Ask your lawyer what you need to make sure you have visitation rights.
Homosexual couples face this problem all the time. Perhaps someday the status of "closest companion" will be recognized more than it is now.
Great advice Jay.... let's all learn to protect each other so laws / religion and the rest don't cancel out our personal plans. Educate yourselves, there is power in knowledge.
Why should the young folks be the only ones having fun?
today you have become like the rich man who asks of the offering when it has come time to give of himself. the man cannot place his hand where others have other than to question the reasons why he should not take what has come before him.
he will take from the poorest of people
I'm sure you make sense to yourself but to the rest of us who have read this article you sound like a philospher in the wrong conversation, maybe if the topic was "seeking spirituality" you would fit in perfect.
i am here to intrude freely, it is my will to speak for spirituality and understanding as they are an inseparable part of our lives.
but because marriage is a partnership between two living breathing bodies containing spiritual entities it is worthy to discuss here.
jizzy
You sound like you'd hit the bottle to early today or you've been smoking to much of that pipe. Take a break, sounds like you need it.
I am 72 and I have shacked up more then a few times in my life around the world. I would never shack up with someone my own age, who would get me to the hospital? I am now looking forward to living alone. Yes I have thrown in the towel so do not post your number because my ex wives would have a fit. People live together now for financial reasons I never did and I don't like it. It is like paying for it. Yes I was married twice and are still paying for it but the experience was worth it. Can we get some news to discuss on this Opra type blog please.
Glad to hear you always wear a condom, So. Bx John.
a marriage is a lifelong commitment,
how can months of division or years begin to resemble a life?
you can give it time.
but patience is something rare that people are not taught on the television.
how can children admire the dedication of their mother and father when they had nothing to give to them but an evil anger that has stolen the peace from their upbringing.
today the children are taught to not marry a woman...to marry themselves to fixation and the perverts downtown at the bar.
like whores...they like the sound on the radio
People may shack up for monetary reasons but, let's face it, people also cohabitate to have a sex life as well
Say what you will and deride my comment if you must but this is just another sign of the decreasing morality that socialism and a tendency towards communism thrives on.
Explain exactly how socialism and communism causes people to have decreased morality and thus live together.
Whose "morality" are we talking about here? Yours? Here's a tip...the world doesn't live according to your self-appointed morals.
My friend serves at a hospital and a relative works with the elderly in nursing home facility. I heard from them that it is common for the elderly to get VD's , somehting that teens or college age humans generally get stereotypically speaking. But the fact is they said the elderly put their guard down and figure that their is loyalty with maturity and the other partner has been around the block apparently. Lonliness , clever people take on the vulnerable and naive and hurting - or they just are getting older and figure to die soon anyway so who cares about yet another annoying disease or form of decay and discomfort. Sex always has consequences and things to consider along with it. mature people should know better. But people lie, people think this life is all that exists are willing to give up anything for instant gratification . It is nature reproduction and the urge and the satisfaction involved, but sin caused death too, and sin is natural, as we age we should better be discerning to practice what we preach to the younger generation. Maybe these are the days of Noah, moral decline even with the so called wisdom of elders. Thankful to God for His grace and hope though, grateful for life, but there is a plan beyond sight and beyond the grave and Jesus leads the way before us conquered death....Love is sacrifice - people need to grow up.....learn from the past mistakes, not justify..Co habitate and community makes sense to save money though,,as long as true love and commitment is cultivated they have their rights, but seriously people need to see the results and outcomes of choices and decide what is truth.
you would be right to be upset by how difficult it is to make a marriage work,
we do not live in regular circumstances.
but consider your future regrets alongside your present excuses...
do the excuses win your heart when it is clear to see side by side?
i would agree many times to look at our society it would feel like the house on quicksand that was being sold...even in a wealthy nation such as this...
with the feeling in the air and the death of morality in the hearts and will of the people...
it would be difficult raise uncorrupted children in a place like this.
how could i take my own child...and place him in a fun house to his own dark death
here the stupid girl sings on the radio and rapes the morality from his mind,
the man on the tv flaunts his wealth and spoiled children to decieve him for his money.
here the atheist denounces God and insists my child is a monkey...if he were to believe in any one of these false truths it could lead him down a path to be beaten everyday and unfree in his mind and the choices of his life.
they set him on a path to destruction...and with so many children...alcoholics and drug users...this is accepted and congratulated by laughing idiots.
they look so fun as they are dysfunctional fool...what a shame for a son of mine to behave this way...i would not want this
they live as they teach others to do the same as they teach them to be meaningless
and as we see, they become worthless
Jizzy, I don't need the government, or your antiquated, hypocrite filled, man made religion to tell me who I am committed to, or to whom I consider myself married. The Bible is just a bunch of rehashed myths, from other man made, older religions. The stories of Noah, Jonah, Adam and Eve, Moses, and even Jesus are just copied, slighted changed old myths that were around long before they were adapted to the writers of the Bible.
And, Jesus stood before a crowd of followers and told them he would return during the lifetimes of some of those present - read Matthew 16:28. And, on the cross, he came back to reality, and wondered why God has forsaken him. He finally realized how badly he had been misled.
Further, Jesus was far from the first to claim to be born of a virgin - that's another old myth, repeated many times - yet, no mention of it is made in two of the four gospels. It was "added" by later writers.
Sorry to break it to you, but you've been sold a "bill of goods".
Get real...
you are so cute~
hahaha ...so what do you do? live in the amazon i suppose, i hope to go there someday. God bless you indigenous soldiers of the burning flag for keeping the spirit of primal existence alive in our modern times....on the internet~
Michael1601 what Jesus said is that some would not die till they SAW him coming with the glory of His Father: THAT was fulfilled in Rev 19:11-13 when JOHN did indeed SEE Him returning to Earth...
As for the similarities between other false religions: Jude 14 says that Enoch, the 7th from Adam((Gen 5:18-21), PROPHESIED about Jesus BEFORE the flood. SO, the reason you hear the same themes is because everyone after the flood heard the same story: how a messiah who is the son of God, would return on the last day. When the languages were divided (Gen 11:5-8) the stories got twisted, as when a story is retold repeatedly to this day:it changes greatly but stays similar
So, I hope you see now how Matt 16:18 was fulfilled when John saw Jesus return in Rev 19:13 and I hope you understand that all the similar stories about the flood and dragons and a Son-God(which some turned to a SUN-GOD like Ra) actually SUPPORT the bible being the INSPIRED word of God(who is Jesus)Se
See John 3:3-8, Matt 28:19, Mark 16:16-17, Luke 24:44-47 for Jesus' instruction on HOW to be saved
See Acts 2:38-39, 8:9-17, 37-38, 10:42-48, 16:31-33, 19:1-6 and 22:14
Note that GOD sent Peter to tell Cornelius HOW to be saved Acts 10:30-33:(so Peter was not mistaken then nor in Acts 2:38-39 and the method has not changed and is for today as per Acts 2:39 so consider what the Bible says and someone who tells you what THEY say)
Bravo! Why get "married" and ruin your romantic life at any age? Once the economic fears and reasons to stay together are removed, couples lead happier lives and don't feel enslaved.
the key element that has been trivialized is love,
love is that which has become neglected
love for God, love for mankind, love for the purity of the nature that would otherwise survive.
but here we collide and contradict our nature for the world we are forced to follow,
in a distracted state we forget all warning as we walk forward into the mine field
to pick roses for our own grave.
in here the depraved laugh and call us insane
Cuckoo...Cuckoo!!!
very good keyjoy...you are my favorite pet
what better display for my example could i ever hope for?
jizzy, you made my day. Your poetry is beautiful, accurate, thought provoking and renews my belief that their are still intelligent beings on earth. Thank You.
The right wing whackjobs need to realize that the biggest assault on "marriage" is divorce. Not same gender partners.
The left wing dingle berries need to realize marriage is quickly becoming a thing of the past for many older couples for obvious reasons The same gender couples getting married and those planning to will find that out for themselves in time.
What's funny about this is that the highest divorce rates are in the conservative bible belt but the lowest is in the liberal northeast. Go figure.
Of course because conservative christians get divorces too their leaders have decided it must be gay marriage causing this.