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National Women's Law Center
The difference between a man's paycheck and a woman's paycheck may have something to do with where people live.
A new analysis from the National Women’s Law Center finds that the pay gap between men and women varies widely among the states.
Looking at full-time, year-round wages, the gap is smallest in Washington, D.C., where women earn 91 cents for every dollar men earn, and widest in Wyoming, where women earning just 64 cents for every dollar men earn.
Vermont and California also boasted small wage gaps between men and women, while Louisiana and Utah were among those with the largest wage gaps.
Demographic and economic factors help explain some of the disparity.
Many people who live in Washington work for the federal government, where wage gaps tend to be smaller than in private industry, said Fatima Goss Graves, vice president of education and employment for the National Women’s Law Center.
People who live in the nation's capital also may be younger, she added, and the wage gap is smaller among younger workers.
By contrast, in Wyoming there may be more jobs in traditionally male-dominated industries such as coal mining. The state is also largely rural and much more sparsely populated.
But Graves argues that such factors don’t account for the entire gap.
“There’s always a portion that cannot be explained away,” she said.
Economist Mike Montgomery with IHS Global Insight said demographic differences in various states could have a lot to do with the wage gap. States with a homogeneous labor market – where men and women do similar jobs – could have a much narrower gap because opportunities are more equal.
The overall gap between men’s and women’s median earnings has improved as more women have entered the labor market, but a disparity remains.
That’s partly because men and women choose different career paths, but pay gaps persist even for people in the same jobs.
The median weekly income for female physicians and surgeons is just 71 percent of what men take home, for example. Even in traditionally female-dominated professions, such as nursing and teaching, women generally take home less than men each week, according to the most recent data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The National Women’s Law Center used the most recent 2010 data from the American Community Survey, which is conducted by the Census Bureau, to compile its analysis. Its findings are close to what the Census Bureau itself found when it did a similar analysis a couple of years ago.
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These articles are misleading, here is why:
Partly? I'd say mostly. There were maybe 1-2 women (out of 40-50 students) in my higher level engineering courses, but when I took a liberal arts course, over 80% of the students were women.
When you lump the entire workforce together and compare two demographics where one is more versed in math and science, it's pretty obvious that demographic will be making more money. This isn't sexism, this is capitalism working as intended.
Women want their average salaries to go up? Learn math and science.
/thread
What is even more misleading is that married women are not compared to married men, and single women are not compared to single men.
I know tons of married women who take low-paying jobs that they enjoy, or who run their own part-time business for very little profit, despite having college degrees that could get them much higher paying jobs... the reason is because their husbands pay all the bills. These women bring down the average earnings for women a lot, and it is by their own choice, not someone elses. Most single women I know get paid on-par with their male coworkers, if not more.
It's been my experience that the math and science jobs are being outsourced to India due to cheaper labor. In the words of Romney, "FIRE THEM!".
You're way off the mark. The menial IT / assembly jobs are those outsourced.
The actual engineers that design new systems are here in the USA.
Ruken, this is a rare opportunity for me to say I agree with your assessment of the wage gap issue. You are spot on.
Ruken - you're failing to appreciate the real history of america that had always told women they couldnt/shouldnt/wouldnt/cant.
that doesnt change overnight...
and im confused why the "best paying jobs" have to be math and science.
id say teaching our kids is equally as important as discovery the next medication to help men get erections...perhaps even more so.
Okay, I'd like you to teach History to a student and then go design a high-rise office building for downtown New York. Should there be a pay disparity? Better yet, after it is designed, go build it. How many females are going to sign up for that?
I can go on and on. The federal government encourages females to apply for federal law enforcement jobs and the military. The door is WIDE open...so why do they make up only a small portion of the applicants. Notice I didnt say "new hires", I said applicants. That is voluntary. FEW women even apply for those types of jobs and there are thousands of jobs like this.
The bottom line is women still view many occupations as MENS work, yet, feel they should be compensated equally for the less demanding and more appealing and flexible jobs they choose to do. It doesnt work that way.
How about a number of studies that women are weaker pay negotiators (not all)
Baloney!!
GOP "War on Women" has a basis in fact - biggest gap seen in CONSERVATIVE states as shown in this article!!!
More ammo against Romney and TeaBaggers...
The state of Mississippi does not offer registered voter statistics by party, we must judge either from primary elections (to see how many voters their are from both parties) or from general elections. Through primary elections we conclude that Mississippi is a state dominated by the Democratic Party. In the 2007 Mississippi Governor election, the Democratic Primary had a total of about 450,000 voters compared to about 197,000 voters of the Republican Primary. Also, in the 2008 Presidential Election, the Mississippi Democratic Party Primary had a total of about 429,000 voters compared to about 145,000 voters of the Republican party. Whereas in general elections we conclude that Mississippi is a state dominated by the Republican party.In the 2008 Presidential election the Republican candidate (John McCain) received about 725,000 votes while the Democratic candidate (Barack Obama) received about 555,000 votes. The total voter turnout for the election was about 1,290,000 voters. This is significantly larger than the voter turnout for state primaries such as the primaries for the 2007 Governor election where there was a total of about 650,000 voters, which is almost half the amount of voters that voted in the presidential election. This would support the theory that the state of Mississippi has a larger voter turnout in general elections because voters do not have to vote in affiliation with a party; evidently showing how it is more likely that there are more unaffiliated or independent voters in the state of Mississippi than there are Democratic and Republican voters.
Is it the independents fault? they keep voting for democrats for the local politics.
everyone seems to be ignoring the part where they compared women and men in the same job and women still earned less. is there bias- yes, is it entirely undeserved-no. is some of it undeserved-yes. a lot of it can be explained by womens behavior after having kids and most people assume most women will eventually have kids and we get paid accordingly- thats the part that is unfair. i've worked with plenty of mom's and they all think they work so hard- they dont. 90% of their brain is eaten up thinking about their kids or dealing with them. they randomly take off whole or part days because junior is sick, has an appointment, blah blah blah
They have to compare apples to apples though. Why don't they look at the complete package, get us a breakdown on percentage of jobs that contain where men and women work then break down the salaries in each of those categories. Most of the places I've looked into, are open about the rates before you even apply. I've looked at Engineering jobs with local companies and they all show this respectively. I've noticed the percentage differences in college majors as well. Liberal Arts vs. a Hard Science route, weigh it. The same is shown in my states apprentice boards for tradesmen. Women are pretty much guaranteed a slot if they choose to go that route. One technical college listed 30 new Industrial Electrician Apprentices with one of them women.
@Aggravated, I worked in IT for many years as a project manager. At the time women only made up about 20% of IT professionals. My pay grade was equal to the men, BUT, I had to do 3 times the work as the guys did, but was still not promoted. One year, out of 4 PMs, I completed 75% more projects on time and within budget than my co-workers. I experienced gender bias at it's finest from both men and women managers. Oh, and I was a single mom. If you have enough time to complain about women's ability to do their jobs, then you are a fine example of one who perpetrates gender bias.
Learning math is great. But what about poetry and art? Robots are coming people, there must be a distinction. Humans won't be needed for things like math and science.
I think you are on to something there. The areas where women are paid more have more tech jobs. the areas where women are paid less have more construction type jobs as the highest paying available. So It could definately have a lot to do with what jobs are available in the area that you live in.
Also I agree with what some have said as far as women caring more about flexibility than pay. In addition to that many proffesional women have children right out of college then start thier career once the kids are a bit older; putting them years behind the men in seniority.
Crais P wrote "My pay grade was equal to the men, BUT, I had to do 3 times the work as the guys did, but was still not promoted."
3x? Women believe they do more work than men even though men log more hours in the office. Has business universally overlooked a fantastic efficiency :
hiring only women?
"Oh, and I was a single mom."
Surely, you're spending more time at the office than the guys.
@Vincent. I spent many hours on the job and many more hours at home working on project development. @Work by 7:30, home by 6:00 and then after the kid was in bed a couple more hours working. That's not counting telephone calls while on vacation, holding programmer's hands through complex problems. I was the PM for for our Y2K conversion and worked 42 weekends that year getting systems upgraded, tested and ready to roll. The other project managers were in by 8:00 and out by 5:00 on average. I loved my job and enjoyed every minute of it. Lots of women work even harder than I did. Luckily, the kid is all grown up, college educated, self-supporting and I got to retire and enjoy life.
How many examples of incompetence do we need in the Whitehouse to show us how bad most republican presidents are at economic math, and before people rant about Obama, don`t forget the entrenched lack of cooperation between him and the majority of republicans and a relatively few democrats that made "obstruction" and "failure" the key words in any plans conservatives had for the nation, at least for as long as a black democrat was in the Whitehouse. What can you expect from a southern region of the nation that makes up the core values of todays conservatism and promoted (still does) session for the advancement of racism? Why do you think the worst 14 states in wage disparity between men and women are led by the same kind of republican ignorance today?
"How many examples of incompetence do we need in the Whitehouse to show us how bad most republican presidents are at economic math"
Apparently just the current one, the same one who showed you a "more transparent government", closed gitmo, and kept unemployment under 8%.
P.S.
These are not historical numbers, they are the current numbers under the current "example of incompetence in the Whitehouse".
Sparky, Obama and the demoncraps made it clear the republicans were not welcome to play in their sandbox after the 2008 elections. The economy was doing far better under Bush than this bozo, but you wouldn't know that since you were probably still in grade school. Never mind the democrats obstructionism in 2006 when Bush wanted an energy legislation passed that would be benefiting us today, but alas, the demoncraps knew by stonewalling this, energy prices would climb, Bush/republicans would get the blame, and a worthless community organizer would win the presidency. Might I add the current demoncrap obstructionism in the senate on the Ryan budget plan. Nooooo can't work on that, it may pass the senate then Obama might have to veto a bill that a large majority of the US wants.
guess you forgot the part where the economy collapsed under bush on his way out. i dont like obama but give credit where credit is due, the recession started bushes last year in office and he signed the bank bailouts on his way out and left the divvying up to obama
guess you forgot the part where the housing industry was over building during Bush's terms, resulting in economic numbers that were also inflated !!!
And you have ignored the fact that the policies that caused the housing bubble in the first place were put in place by Bill Clinton. You ignore the fact that the derivatives market which took in world economies was not regulated due to the efforts of Bill Clinton, Robert Ruben and Arthur Levitt.
Sparky wrote "How many examples of incompetence do we need in the Whitehouse to show us how bad most republican presidents are at economic math"
The map shows a pay difference between men and women. Women, naturally, assume this pay gap is for the same jobs and doesn't include higher pay for jobs that are more dangerous, require more travel, irregular hours, and primarily overtime hours. Women don't seem to include flexible hours and more sick days as benefits.
This report issued in 2009 (Obama's reign) by the US Dept of Labor concludes that there is no sex-based discrimination in the work place and that this wage gap is a function of sex-based choice :
"An Analysis of Reasons for the Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women "
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf
I wonder why the Obama White House pays men more than women?
Of course, the gender pay gap is a long-term overall economic trend, not simply a problem that exists in Obama's White House. In fact, the gap is actually smaller at the White House than in the overall economy. According to BLS data, in the fourth quarter of 2011, women earned about 81 percent as much as men in the overall economy. Based on the Beacon's numbers, women earn about 85 percent as much as men overall in the White House.
http://mediamatters.org/mobile/blog/201204120008
I love how mediamatters says that the wage gap is small so that is OK. Why is there a wage gap at the WHITE HOUSE? Shouldn't the White House be leading from the front and not the back?
A sex-based wage gap also means that women don't contribute their fair share in taxes despite receiving the same benefits overall, though family benefits for low-income women are higher and retirement payout (Social Security and Medicaid) is higher because women live longer?
Why aren't FICA taxes 2x higher for women given that they receive nearly 2x the retirement benefits despite working fewer years, retiring earlier and living longer?
Pjam09, I know tons of women who support stay at home Dads. I suppose you think it okay for them to be paid less just because they are women?! I for one raised my family on a Union job salary and couldn't have done it on traditional pay for women. Try to leave the 1950's and join us in 2012
Wow, it's all Obama's fault again, huh?
That means all these hiring disparities began a mere three years ago? Really?
Do your research. Learn something about American history and politics and the economy. It takes years, sometimes DECADES, for the "now" to get where it is.
The debt didn't happen overnight. In fact, go talk to Reagan. He's the president that could have erased national debt in the '80s--instead, he pushed us from the hundreds of thousands into the billions, from which it will never come down. Oh, wait. You can't he's dead. My bad.
Another gender baiting article.
Ummm...there is NO such thing as disparity for federal government employees. If you are a GS-6...then you are a GS-6!! Your pay increases with TIME and then you get stepped out to a max pay in that grade over time. The Office of Personnel Management sets the pay, not your boss, supervisor or CEO. The only disparity is geographic set for locality pay. So, both the military and federal government can be excluded from gender pay disparity.
Decades ago women were treated unfairly. However, now most legitimate businesses go out of their way to hire, train, promote and pay them equally...and then some. They've actually taken over the majority of positions in many companies then claim it's because they work cheaper or have some other convenient explanation. Truth is, HR departments are crawling with females and minorities who are always willing to commit reverse discrimination to hire and protect their own. They gain even more ground when they constantly allege that they are the ones being discriminated against. Truth is, they are the ones who have the decision making positions and committing most of the discrimination today in the work place. They won't be satisfied until they run the whole show. When one of their spouses is the victim of reverse discrimination, then a few start to wake up and see what's really going on.
This woman agrees with you. While the original intention was good, the result of "protected class" laws leaves wide doors for reverse discrimination.
In my industry, most companies I've known have some very narrow pay scales within which to negotiate. So all things being equal, it's the bigger go-getters, better negotiators, and most qualified who will garner the higher end of that window on the scale for base pay. Then add shift and specialty differentials, etc. Has nothing to do with gender BIAS, but everything to do with strengths.
Reverse discrimination only goes so far. If a company continues to alienate qualified people due to bias and favoritism, the competitor will eventually get those people - and the upper hand.
Our big problem now is not just pay inequity, which cannot be totally erased due to different wage structures among different companies, but the competition on the global market, and the fact so many are not employed at all. Neither of these groups do not have sympathy for pay inequities. Many foreign professionals make less than restaurant servers in the US, and the unemployed simply want a job.
Personally, I make about 30K a year and hold a Master's Degree in Architecture and have 17 years of experience. I consider myself lucky, though that number is below average. I also know most women with that experience make more than I do, but that is due to the fact we design hotels, which are notorious for cheap clients, and the fact the recession has devastated our profession.
In some companies, I may agree with you. In others, I disagree. My Mother (end of baby boomer gen) worked for 3 years doing a sales/company rep job. She had to fight to get a 1.00 raise in 3 years. Later, she learned that all the other sales people(men, one was even part time) earned commission off her sales, but she never did. They recently hired a new "manager" for her and now she is "the work horse (yeah, they call her that, lovely, huh)" and can't earn commission, but still does all the manager's job. Needless to say, she quit.
I don't think the gender gap for pay is nearly as bad as it used to be. I'm sure it still happens. But for every man that doesn't want to give equal pay to a women there is a women who doesn't want to give equal pay to a man. I'm not against equal pay for everyone. It benefits us all. Besides guys now that women are making more money at times then man part of what that means is when couples get divorced that means that women have to pay the child support and at some times alimony. I have two friends who just went through a divorce and to the surprise of a lot of women (especially the now ex wives) it was the women that have to pay the child support, lose the house and have to give part of there 401k's to the men. Hows that for progress?!
And furthermore, I was hired for this recent job specifically because I was not asking for as much in salary as a preferred male candidate was. The deciding factor, I was told, was money. I was okay with less. Until I realized that my "boss" is doing the exact same job I've been doing since 2002, and has the exact same education as I do, and far less work experience. And he is in an office making $8K to $10K more than me,and I was hired to be his "clone". And he is 20 years younger than I am, too. The age was not the problem, but the situation may be. He treats me like a level 1 tech just out of school... I have 14 years exp total. And if he needed to hire someone capable of doing what he now does, then what's up with payment me so much less? If I am a carbon copy of you, and have the same skills, I deserve the SAME MONEY.
Go ask for more money? CNN posted a study a while back that showed the percentage of men that asked for raises was MUCH higher than women... women tended to ask for more time off instead.
Most women in the study took the offered salary when being hired, while over 50% of the men tried to negotiate for more.
You yourself stated that you were hired "specifically because I was not asking for as much in salary as a preferred male candidate was"... that's your BOSS'S fault?
IT Lady wrote " If I am a carbon copy of you, and have the same skills, I deserve the SAME MONEY."
Sounds like your male "replacement" has negotiation skills that you don't have. Isn't negotiation a job skill?
Biggest reason for the pay disparity is different career paths... this study doesn't even consider that so it is not apples to apples. Many of the highest paying jobs are dominated by men (doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, etc)... many of the lower paying jobs are dominated by women. Not sexist, just the way it is... when I was in engineering school the ratio in the classes was probably 8 to 1.
You can't compare salaries of someone with an IT degree to someone with a sociology degree... now if the study charted gender pay gaps between different jobs, that would make more sense.
I work in the healthcare industry as a medical professional; I'm not a union member, I live in the conservative state of Arizona...there is no wage gap in this employment sector here that I have come across.
Speaking for myself, I received the same pay that every entry EE degrees person got. After six months, I got a raise, and after that, an yearly raise. There are people there that are doing the same work as I, and they receive more pay. The reason for that disparity is real simple, they have worked there longer than me, and have more experience than me.
Does this bother me, heck no, because my higher paid co workers will help me if I need help. Too many people think they should step right in to the top bracket of pay. It doesn't work that way in some jobs.
Interesting when you look at the U.S. map that the majority of the states leaning Republican have the worst record in wage parity
Dave - It is interesting and it has pretty much always been so.
Gitmo is not closed! No Republicans in his right mind would LET that happen. Haha...closed before the 2012 elections! Eric Holder is a professional MORON
Most people are unaware that when they compare men and women's salaries they don't always use apples to apples comparisons on alot of jobs. They use job "equivalents". For example a teachers work may be considered "equivalent " to a truck drivers work. So then they compare the the two and it would be hard pressed to find many teachers making a lot more than a truck driver. Also they never talk about men working a lot more overtime then women, but this salary data is used to to make a point. Notice that the wording is as "pay" (i.e. annual pay) not as hourly rate. Where I work everytime you turn around another female worker is taking off for FMLA and this depreeses their yearly "pay" but not their hourly rate. Watch how the statistics are presented !
Also, I've noticed that women with "equivalent" education in tech have a B.A. in some sort of Humanities and, up to 10 years later, a Master's in Computer Science or Engineering. This is why they are hired in social position such as Project Managers.
There is an easy way out of this: pay men what you pay women. Make them feel what it's like to be less than equal.
I worked in IT with a degree in Computer Science. I got paid the same on hire as men. I did excellent work, got raises and promotions. One of the guys who hired on the same time as me, got more, yet he was out sick a lot and admitted to having problems with doing the job. One of the black women who hired on the same time was getting less than me. Yes, there is inequality in pay between sexes, races, disabilities. It is very hard getting past the good old boys club at work.
The mindset of employers is that men have wives and children to support. Sure, like women don't?
Might surprise you but I was denied pay raises at least 4 times on the open admission that several of my coworkers had mistresses to support in addition to their families. So the water cooler bragging by men about extramarital affairs is not without surriprise. It is often rewarded with pay raises. And a;ll too often, pay raises for women come from men in supervisory or management positions wanting more from her than was in the employment description. I have had several jobs where a lead man, supervisor or manager had a mistress coworker, on occasion, leaving his wife to marry her. The deck is stacked against changing this an half our legislaturers keep mistresses, many selected from their aides.
The only way women are likely to get equal pay is to do as women did in the American West in the 19th Century. They frequently disguised themselves and lived like men rather than choose the role of being a farmer's wife, school teacher or whore. With very few exceptions, women should be able to choose any career they want and receive equal pay
But discrimination is and always has been a way of life in the US. Taller, and lighter skinned/haired men who are married get top priority in hiring advancement and salary. Blacks are probably discriminated against more now than in the late 1960's except in government positions. Jst that employers are no longer open about admitting it.
And no, I am not a woman, nor am I black or any other minority. In fact, I am one of those taller light skinned/blonde hair men that would be top preference except for the fact that I am not and never have been married. Not that it any more matters as I have achieved retirement age and that too makes anyone undesireable for employment, though I have no medical conditions, can lift 600 pounds and run a mile daily in under 5 minutes. And very few of my family died earlier than their late 90's, never a case of cancer in 200 years either. So, I would not be a medical liability. Nearly forgot, while single, I am not gay. Just emothionally as well as sexually empty. But society seems to think that men who do not marry and have kids must be gay. Many say I would have made a good priest, except I quit believing in god right after quitting belief in Santa Claus.
"The only way women are likely to get equal pay is to do as women did in the American West in the 19th Century."
Nonsense. Women do not choose the higher-paying jobs and do not do the same work as men. With full access to any field of study in college, women flock to Sociology/Psychology/Education in record numbers. Do you think that businesses will pass up even a 5% wage advantage just to have "dudes in the office?"
here are a few stats for you -- at the bank i work for: 15% of the employees are male. guaranteed they do less than 15% of the work. and yet 100% of these males are officers and are on "the committee", of which they make up 69%. also guaranteed they make more $ than the women who do their work for them. mmhmm, that sounds equal. employee reviews, btw, are done behind closed doors and you can be fired for talking about them. gee, i wonder why...