You are exactly right Robert, and you beat me to the punch. I was going to say nothing beats experience and a strong work ethic. The youngsters need to learn this some day.

It may seem like prejudice, IMHO, but those of us in management who worked with some of these young entry-level employees were stunned by their pre-recession mentality. Nothing we could do for them was good enough, they wanted to do work they weren't qualified for immediately, they didn't want to work late, travel, etc, and they seemed to want a bonus just for showing up. This wasn't universally true, of course, and there were diligent folks among them. But it seemed a common characteristic for many of them.

You have to realize that much of the impetus behind the mass layoff of older workers in 2007-8 was to bring home to those same workers the point that their experience would no longer be counted in their favor when ascertaining their rate of remuneration, and that goal has largely been accomplished. Doubtless, now that they're being re-hired to some extent, the unspoken expectation that they make the most of this same experience will hang heavy over them.

While I have met a few younger (under 40) workers who I feel are both competent in their job skills and have a solid work ethic without an overbearing sense of entitlement, they are (in my limited experience) very much in the minority. No, that statement is not the product of a numb mind, but of objective observation. Only a numb (and self-serving) mind would jump to such a conclusion.

While I have no sense of karmic justice (hard to maintain in these times, huh?), and while I wish ill to no one, it would be interesting to see the looks on some in the younger generation when their turn comes around; my guess would be that they'll be the first to cry 'foul' and demand their just due based on their age and seniority. :)

Does anyone ever stop to consider all the ways that lack of a national health care program impacts our economy? Here are just a few:

- Employers are afraid to hire, because the benefit costs are equal to the salary for many positions.

- Older workers are afraid to move out of the workforce because they'll lose their health coverage.

- Employees at all levels are paid less than their work may be "worth" because the remainder is paid to the health insurance company.

- Employees are unable to move to jobs they may be better-suited for or at higher pay grades due to problems with moving their health coverage. Those with pre-existing conditions may be unable to find any job that will cover them.

- Billions of dollars a year is spent on the paperwork required to obtain, maintain and utilize health insurance benefits.

All this adds up to higher unemployment and stagnant wages. You'd think we would have realized long ago that the cost of not having universal coverage is higher than the cost of having it.

I think it depends on the field of work. I am in the older age cohort and work with people young enough to be my grandchildren (egads!). My field utilizes cutting edge technology to do our jobs but highly values industry expertise due to it being a highly regulated industry. You don't instantaneously come up to speed on the regulatory component. It works well because the company values everyone's contribution.

One thing I have noticed is with the younger employees, especially those who are parents, the expectation is to take their paid time off despite looming deadlines. Most of us veterans are past that point in life and fill in the gaps for our 'Mom & Dad' co-workers. It works in my company and I feel fortunate to work where everyone has value.

It seems the recession may have been a blessing in desguise for some of the newcomers to the job market. Although I can appreciate questionning the status quo, it is the disrespect and lack of commitment to the overall efforts to an organization that was a problem. Greentimer, I cannot count the times that I have hired a person under 27 and they expected to be rewared prior to producing material results or for simply doing their job. Generalizing, there is a lack of undestanding as to the difference between exceptional effort and what is expected. I entered the market during the last big recession, 1982. It enabled me to learn that you cannot expect to walk in without real experience and be placed in a position that allows immediate independence. This is now happening with this generation and it is funny to see the amazed look on their faces when I describe what occurred back in the early 80's and how many college grads waited a few years before finding work. Life really is a cycle!

No mystery here. Older workers either have college degrees or considerable experience in areas where there is actually a demand....no international studies or communications (whatever the hell that is!) Older workers show up on time, appropriately dressed, and spend their employer's time actually working, instead of friggin' around on a computer or phone. And most important of all, instead of expecting or demanding all kinds of perks, they are satisfied simply to have a job that they enjoy.

And, GreenTimer, older folks earn the privilege of "setting the world on fire" by establishing a strong professional reputation with their effective performance....at which point, their opinion and ideas will be sought by their superiors.

Older persons generally (not always) are not looking to set the world on fire, but only want to live in peace and comfort. They are much less likely to rock the boat with creative thinking and more inclined to get with the program.

A lot of cliches in this comment. But I dispute the concept of an entitlement mentality among the bulk of young people. Afterall, it is the older workers who are rightfully entitled to Social Security after all the years of contributions...

I must contest that entitilemt mentality part... When most of the older generation were in their 20's, most were out of the house, on their own for 2 - 3 years, usually because that was the age of majority. Legally they couldn't leave home earlier without parental agreement to allow them to file emancipated minor court documents.

Not only are kids refusing to leave home - they are bringing in Girlfriends, baby moma's, kids and have no problem coming home... and staying. No matter than Mom'n dad are retired, out of work living on limited income or tapping their 401K early, at a big penalty.

Add in that, regardless of the fact they are under the family roof - again , they are quick to declare their "Independence", including using the family car, coming home (or not) without any regard to using a telephone to support common courtesy of letting the family know they did get kidnapped, die or arrested for days at a time.

That is entitlement! You owe me; food, shelter, independence, transportation, money when I need it... I own you nothing, except the pleasure of supporting me long after (in your generation) you were not only out of the family nest ... more often than not, you were sending money home to ensure that your siblings got an even better send-off (college, trade school) than you did.

In the 40's and 50's - the older generation were fighting wars, building the businesses which today's youth are trying to force them out of - while the other half of the 20 and 30's something are draining the remain family nest. They were 17, 18, 19 (some enlisted at 15), to go to war or work for a mans wages in mines, factories and "give" the money they made to the family. The difference in what passes for independence today ... heck - It ain't even close!!!

RealAmerican, you are absolutely right. Something is wrong in this country when a major part of an employees pay and benefits are going for their health insurance premium. Small companies are especially hurt and when a person magically hits that age of 55, their premiums skyrocket. Hopefully the individual mandate will spread the costs over all age groups and ease the burden. Until then, I don't see a major uptick in the hiring of people 55-65.

Yeah, I was at the store last night picking up a redbox dvd I reserved from home. The guy in front of me 20+ was trying to pay for his via credit card. He failed to understand how to read the picture telling him how to insert his credit card. After the third try, he just stopped and kind of stared at the machine waiting for instruction. I offered to intervene, took his credit card, swiped it and he was done. Then I retrieved my prepaid dvd. The guy in the next redbox machine (25+) seemed shocked and said he didn't know it was possible to reserve redbox dvd's. Oh and this was in an upper middle class neighborhood. Hello! The 20's set needs to get off of facebook and explore the rest of the internet. My suggestion is to start with wikipedia and not stop until they get through all of it!

Geez, and for all those who say they are working only because of healthcare. Hmm, I thought the Repubs and the Dems were demonizing and lording that fact that we had national healthcare now. So what was Obamacare? Just a dream we all think happened, but didn't?

Geez, Americans aren't being beaten on the global stage, they're just refusing to show up to even try!

sheila; yep, you are on point; over 55, you are considered a liability by the health insurance third party managers, they will even tell human resources, no more over 50, unless you want to pay double your premiums; before I retired, close to half of my people were over 50, they would analyze a case, break it down and set about a plan of attack; the younger workers25-35, would just grab a file and hit the street without any real plans; experience comes late in life,( however when I look back at my early career, i did the same thing as the 25-35 do today, heck youth is wasted on the young.)

uh spider: "communications" is central to almost every career field and doing just fine as a career choice...No matter how great the expertise and skill, being unable to communicate about it is an extreme disadvantage.

Rrobeson: if the best you got is one guy who didn't know how to use a credit card...there are MILLIONS of stories about older workers not knowing how to use a wide swath of new technology...start with WIKIPEDIA???? My kids know better than to start there since it's regarded as a junk, unfiltered dumpbox by every teacher in the country. Information does not equal wisdom.

I agree, AP, communication skill, both oral and written, is absolutely vital to success in any field. But, it used to be taught in any curriculum, and known as english, spelling, speech, writing, journalism etc. But it seems that every other young person I see interviewed on TV is majoring in "communications".......a nebulous moniker, specifying no particular set of skills or knowledge.

Only about 20% of the out of school hires have the maturity to make a hand, some gain the maturity with enough time and some never do. An older person who has a decent work record is a proven asset, instead of a losing gamble.

Well, I haven't had a job since 2007. I lived with my dad till 2010, going to college part time and working the occasional odd job. For the most part I focused on taking care of us, because dad was going senile and was under the influence of all kinds of meds. Eventually, I had to leave to continue my education. He died a year later, last summer.

I don't have parents to go home to anymore. I'm 26 currently, and when hiring managers look at me, they see a stereotype. A kid who lacks work ethic, because I haven't 'worked' since 2007.

I'm in pain from health issues. I watched my mom take her last breath and just buried my dad. I'm poor and lack good clothing. I've lived in social isolation for 10 years. But hey, I'm just a immature kid.

I look for work at night, because I am permanently nocturnal. I must be a druggie then? No, just a sleep disorder.

I can't get any of this across on a resume, and in a interview it would come across as one long, unbelievable lie.

Please stop filing "those young people" away neatly in some easy stereotype. We have lives, we're humans too. I may be a exception but I know I'm not the only one. Stereotypes don't differentiate, they blind you. Stereotypes can kill. Please, stop stereotyping everyone.

Maybe it's because us old folks don't need mommy and daddy to hold our hands while we look for work, so employers think maybe we can be trusted to do our jobs without handholding supervision.

Got that idea from the weekend MarketPlace show on NPR. Appparently the poor little dears recently graduating from college have mommy write their resumes, setup their interviews and actually go with their darlings to these interviews.

If that's what an old fart like me has to compete with, I feel a whole lot better.

@ryoushi12

May I ask how you got your name?

As a young person enjoying my first day off in a month, I find the age-based stereotyping to be pretty appalling. We aren't all slackers who had everything handed to us on a silver platter.

One thing this report doesn't mention is the newly released data showing unemployment amongst those holding a 4 year or greater degree is only 4.1%. Now if we could just get the right wingers to stop bashing the educated as "elitist" then maybe this country could actually start to move forward again.

Cirnobyl--if you are up at night, then get a job in IT, monitoring computers. Or, get a job at a nursing home, sitting up and monitoring activity. Better still, get a job at a mortuary--they need someone to sit there and accept deliveries. Mortuary work starts out rather low, but can become very well paid. Try a temp agency and specify that you like to work at night--you might find something that way.

In the meantime, if you finished your degree, think about online work. Companies have started moving their customer service back to the States, but they hire at-home workers as contractors. Being able to work at night, again, is an asset.

But, a sleep disorder clinic can get you off the nocturnal schedule--it takes a while, but it can be done. After that, you can look for government work. USAJOBS.gov--you apply online, then take a test if you qualify. As long as you do well on the test, you will get considered. And, yes, they do need people to do shift work. If you can handle stress, air traffic control is really well paid.

Or, look at your state government--agencies usually put all their jobs online on their own site. Try doing a search for your state's name and then "office of personnel management." It will probably kick up.

Push comes to shove--can you claim a disability? The federal and state governments set aside a certain number of jobs as non-competitive for those with disabilities. Once you get into government work, it is easier to move sideways into other fields and move up also. Hope that helps.

Exactly, I am in that age group and though I am not working full time I am getting $15 to $25 an hour on a part time basis. the skills I have learned over the years have helped me becoma a sought after commodity. Oh by the way the $15 an hour is manual labor type stuff that I have done for years. The $25 is from writing proposals, and something not just anyone can do. I worked in contracting 20 years before my last lay off. So what you are saying is true. Last year I totalled 3 months of work and earned over $30k so I am still not in the full time category but the doing fine category. Not because of Obama either I had to hunt these down and find them. Then word spread between contractors and I settled where I was needed the most at a basically 12 hr a week job on my laptop. I still do the manual labor about 3 weeks spread out for the next 3 months too. whatever it takes. And I will not accept food stamps or any other hand outs. That comes from riding a Harley most of my life and not depending on anybody to subsidise me.

When most of the older generation were in their 20's, most were out of the house, on their own for 2 - 3 years, usually because that was the age of majority..

Most of the older generation had options and could make a living wage out of highschool. The manufacturing sector was the ticket to the middle class through decent wages and people being able to afford to put themselves through college.

Kids living with "baby momma" at their parents place isn't somthing they relish and want to do because they are simply lazy. People are just trying to survive. Try living on WalMart era wages.

The avearage ceo pay is 500x what it was "back in the day" while wages have stayed realitivly stagnent for the underlings.

It is comments like these that show how "entitled" the baby boomers feel. Under your leadership, our economy was ruined, our futures were mortgaged, and yet you still feel like we should pay for you in your old age through social security and medicare, although we won't receive the same benefits when we get older. Young people are called immature for living at home, when in fact they are sacrificing their own freedom and making a wise financial decision. They are not jumping in to a mortgage that they can't afford. I am ashamed of being from a country where people think like this.

I left the United States years ago because I realized that I could have a higher quality of life elsewhere (higher pay, free health insurance, low crime rates). Many of my friends are doing the same due to the lack of quality jobs. When you have a university degree, refusing to work for extremely low pay is smart. Fighting for fair wages is a good thing to do. If you can't find good wages in the US, move elsewhere. If enough of us are forced out of our own country, the elderly will have nobody to support them when they are old.

The parents of most 30 and under maybe even older were never taught the work ethic. Its always been make it better for my kids than it was for me, well you blew it. Now they just wonder around throwing darts hoping it will hit and they can do just enough to make twice what their worth

@LB-3426829

Medicare is run by the government and it is far more efficient than any privately run health insurance system. The overhead for private insurance is 15 - 22%. For Medicare, it is 3%. The other industrialized nations with government run health care pay half per capita what we pay. So, you are wrong. Not only is social security and medicare not bankrupt, a government run system is less expensive. You are spouting lies.

Elpea: So where did you move? Montreal?

AP-1414066 Thank you for mentioning that wikipedia thing!!! My 7th grader was told by her teacher to use this collected garbage site.

Some are forgetting that we have just come out of a period where younger, lesser paid workers were the way to go for companies. Now companies find themselves needing the experience as well. Diversity folks!

I'm 47 finishing up my degree in computer science and I can say without a doubt, that these kids do not feel entitled. They are worried about getting a job and many will take what they can when they graduate. For many of them, it will mean working in a call center for 15 bucks an hour. I don't think we can lump everyone into one category or another, nor should we. I don't know if it's just the program I am in or not, but I just don't see the big problem of entitlement attitude.

"Work ethic" means that you will work even if your kid is having a birthday or a championship game, you're carrying the bubonic plague, or your parent is dying. It means that you won't go on vacation, and you'll abandon your family's plans at the drop of the hat to come in and work.

For the most part, people of that age (the same age I am) don't have children or other family, and all gets them up in the morning is work. I live in Bend, and I'm not surprised the wife found work at a resort, because people who have no family to take care of, or any life that might conflict with being called at any time, are exactly what the resorts here want.

I do wonder how much the employer is paying into the health insurance--probably the whole thing it coming out of her paycheck, but it is health insurance, and the job is a lot more stable than a, or rather, the lumber mill, and probably a shorter commute.

No big surprise here. Who wants to hire some rude, tattooed, saggy drawer, dreadlock wearing kid when they could opt for somebody who is serious about getting a job.

Good grief......

Why doesn't an investigative Journalist provide information on the REAL unemployment rate instead of targeting a small group of individuals ?

Why doesn't an investigative Journalist provide information on what the unemployment rate is for ex-military members ? (Now here is the cream of the crop for hiring)

Why doesn't an investigative Journalist provide information on what the unemployment rate is for minorities ?

Why doesn't an investigative Journalist provide information on how many Occupiers who have FOUND JOBS ?

Nah, nah, nah, and nah. Must be a very slow weekend at MSN_C.

Gotta keep something on the front page to make Mr. Obama look good. Cough, cough !!

GrandpaOnly about 20% of the out of school hires have the maturity to make a hand, some gain the maturity with enough time and some never do. An older person who has a decent work record is a proven asset, instead of a losing gamble.

Something tells me you worked in a factory position since you were 15. You got too greedy and ruined manufacturing unions for the future morons. Now I have to go through six years of college to make less than some dropout who can't even spell made working on an assembly line. I make $40k per year as an accountant!

This is way too easy. Those that are over 45 simply go to work, do what is expected and go home. The 'younger' croud are the ones moaning that they have to work on Christmas.

Why doesn't an investigative Journalist provide information on the REAL unemployment rate instead of targeting a small group of individuals ?

Why doesn't an investigative Journalist provide information on what the unemployment rate is for ex-military members ? (Now here is the cream of the crop for hiring)...

Read the head line - the "trick" to answering your questions is not that difficult for people who read.

(you just knew the world as you know it was coming to an end when they stopped making socks, baseball caps in sizes ... everything "One-Size-Fits all" actually doesn't fit anyone.)

Its a business advertiment phrase - meaning: you take what you get and be Happy you got it.

When the sign on the door says "Mens" room - it was a declarative statement, meaning that you will find "men" inside. Not women, not baby changing tables, not female hygine dispensery machines. What is this Androgenous world coming to?

Similarly - when you read an Article with a title which says "Older Workers seeing biggest Job gains" - its would be reasonable to expect to see information pertaining to "older workers" and issues about their expereinces finding work.

I'll go out on a limb and guess you might be one of those people who go into a Shoe store, looking to buy pants or a Candy store looking for diet food ... then get upset when the clerk can find anything you were looking for.

Signs have a uses... generally to make it easier for people to know what is or isn't on offer - before you waste your time and theirs wondering about something they never intended to provide.

I can sympathize with you a little - I've often gone into a "Big Box Store" gone to the Paint department, finally found a clerk working in the aisle. Then asked for help finding something "paint related". Only to hear, I don't know anything about paint - they just sent me over here to ... help out". Huh?

You gotta wonder.

I'm 60. I've been employed almost from the day I was born until early 2009 when the economy collapsed. I start work again this week.

But to tell you the truth, I hadn't been looking that hard. I poked around here and there, but everywhere I went, I found that my competitors, unlike me, were young family guys and gals with mouths to feed and mortgages to pay and no alternate source of income... being towards the end of my "career", I was not in that condition... no kids to support, low mortgage payment, other sources of income like a pension and savings.

So I essentially decided to "sit this one out" for a while and let those that were truly in need take the jobs.

I'm going back to work now because the job market is better and I was actually asked to take a position where I was not taking a job of a younger more desperate parent.

Sooo... looking at this article, I wonder just how many "older workers" took some time off, let their backs heal, let other more desperate people have the jobs, and cooled their heels instead?

ldo

Must you always be so angry? Why don't you just read the article, enjoy it, and then comment on the subject at hand?... instead of acting like some self-centered gift to mankind using your time in this space doing nothing but judging the author and/or anyone that dares make an intelligent comment? And then predictably landing on Obama no matter what...

Agenda? Anyone else notice this?

Interesting how the vast majority of people on here - taking time away from their work to comment - are the older folks claiming to have a "hard work ethic." Now I understand I may come under assault for that comment, so I note that I am currently on my lunch break - I do not waste my time on the internet during work hours. (Again, just an interesting observation)

For all of you old folks complaining about the work ethic of my generation - Who raised us? Who allows us to move back in? Who lets us use the family car? I'll tell ya my parents sure as heck wouldn't let me move back in. They are the ones who instilled in me a good work ethic. The same cannot be said for many of you babying your children AND THEN blaming them for being babies. It's like training a dog to pee in the house and then complaining that he won't pee outside. Get with it.

I'm currently an attorney working 70 to 80 hours a week. Every last one of my peers from high school through undergrad through law school ALL work extremely hard and are efficient and productive at what they do. I CANNOT say the same for the older people I have worked with. The people I see looking for an easy way out of work and taking their full vacation time and sick leave are the older people.

Furthmore, my generation has suffered from a loss of industry in this country. Whoever holds the blame for that is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that there simply aren't as many job opportunities as there used to be. Everyone I know went to college because that was advised. It was considered a bad decision not to go to college. Now they can't find work. None of them are "lazy" and most hold multiple low paying jobs. I'm one of the few lucky ones who was able to secure a sold-paying job.

With age comes wisdom. But with age also comes an ignorance to the changing circumstances affecting younger generations. The older folks commenting on here see a few bad apples amongst my generation and somehow equate that to all of us. I have held consistent employment since I was 15 years old. I've worked 3, sometimes 4, jobs at a time. I've worked as many as 90 hours a week, sometimes for months on end. I've also picked up the slack for older workers. And not once have I ever complained. Because MY parents taught me the importance of a strong work ethic.

There are plenty of younger workers who are willing to work hard.

Their biggest problem/obstacle is that they don't yet have the experience to know what to believe and how organizations work. They have unrealistic expectations about raises and promotions like we did when we first started and myopia about their place in the org chart. Many bosses hold out carrots and open promises to get the current project done. Younger inexperienced workers actually believe the push is unique to this very important project and that working a few late nights to push it over the edge will pay off big for them. Older workers already know that all that's at the end of this tunnel is just another project that will be equally as critical and full of more hyperbole about how it's the biggest thing ever. That's phase one.

Phase two is disillusionment with not being rewarded and being given more work and wondering if they'll ever get above water, so why should they work as hard?

Phase three is when they have kids or a mortgage and enough skin in the game to realize that life isn't fair, but they need the money and make the best of the situation they have. That's when they learn about "working smarter" more than working harder and learn the rules of the game and the better ones do eventually get some rewards.

At that point, they look at the new young recruits and wonder whether this next generation will ever be worth their salt.

BB - what your husband has to do is accept that he's not going to make any money working. He should just apply and expect 20 to 30 percent of what he got before. But, he'll have to take on a little debt to get trained to do ultra multitask jumps for the new company who won't pay $h!t and may fire him for no reason at all.

He has worked for far less than before,he understands he may not make the same income. He just wants a full time permanent job.

My brother was fired from his job as a property manager because the company he worked for changed hands. With all of his experience of 30+ yrs nobody would hire him. The best he could get was delivering lunches. for doctors offices. He is college and a real estate lic,. now he's on social security with no medical. If his wife wasn't working they would be worse than poor.

BB - I got my first summer job when I was 14. Other than when I was going to school, I've worked ever since. After being downsized by a major telecommunications company TWICE, the last time when I turned 50, the last several years has been a real struggle. (I'll be turning 60 next week).

After being out of work for the last two years, I was able to secure a position with a nearby school district at the beginning of the year. Long term unemployment is difficult to take, but, please tell your husband not to give up hope and to just keep trying. It's especially important not to listen to people like JohnSixty, who seems to be living in a very dark and negative place. You listen to people like him long enough, jumping off of a bridge begins to sound like an inviting option.

You must be a joy to live with, JohnSixty.

Getting a decent job depends, mostly, on having a profession for which there is a demand. I am a 73 year old retired industrial maintenance man, I could get a job tomorrow.

Walmart has a limited need for greeters.

If you work on a production line, putting whickerbills on gwidgets and get laid off, you may be in a little trouble.

Robert - you hit the nail on the head. A couple years before 2008, several of us teachers were hired by our county to see if our graduates had the job skills needed in the various professions. We spent time with auto repair shops, United Airlines, construction companies, printers, food service, etc. etc.

We were amazed that some companies had to offer young workers extra paid time off if they managed to show up for work on time every day for a month. The biggest skill shortage was a good work ethic.

I had a student who worked part time in the store of a major fast food chain who told me, "We were all tired last night, so we talked the (young) assistant manager into closing at 8 pm." I said, "Didn't you have an obligation to stay open?" She thought it was no big deal.

My cousin owns four McDonalds and told me she preferentially hires 70 year olds over teenagers. I understand why.

The single most sickening thing in this entire group of posts is the willfully ignorant, repeated use of the word "liberal" as if it were some sort of damn epithet.

Apparently, too many people have been on the Greedy Opportunistic Party tea-wagon to be able to think for themselves, and have to throw out a word that means "progressive", "forward-thinking", and "willing to try new solutions" as if it were something negative. Clearly, what the RepubliCONS have been doing, besides obstructing progress over the last three years, hasn't worked, has it? So much for CONservatism.

I have news for all you uber-patriotic wannabees... Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Paine, James Madison, John Hancock, and Charles Pinckney, all icons of true American Patriotism, and all, by today's standards, farther to the left of the political spectrum than our sitting President. How dare you insult the memory and the great works of these founding fathers. You should be ashamed of yourself for your right-wing nutjob rhetoric. You obviously don't know your own nation's history.

The whole bunch of you moralistic, arrogant, and greedy CONservatives clearly hate the average American, the average woman, and anyone who doesn't agree with you. Well, the average American is the biggest slice of the population.

How can you dare to claim to love America, when you clearly hate most Americans?

This is for RealAmericansFirst.

We DO have a comprehensive health care plan: http://www.healthcare.gov/

And here is the text of the legislation: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:5:./temp/~c111WOCig5::

My brother was fired from his job as a property manager because the company he worked for changed hands. With all of his experience of 30+ yrs nobody would hire him. The best he could get was delivering lunches. for doctors offices. He is college and a real estate lic,. now he's on social security with no medical. If his wife wasn't working they would be worse than poor.

How does this happen? He is on SS and hsa no healthcare? I really have to question this.

Greentimer wrote...

"Young persons are more volitile and more likely to fight city hall. They are more likely to ask, "Why?" rather than just go along with the program. Has more to do with searching for truth than an entitlement mentality. Older persons generally (not always) are not looking to set the world on fire, but only want to live in peace and comfort. They are much less likely to rock the boat with creative thinking and more inclined to get with the program. " What nonsense! Present some legal study documentation for your statement. You can't. I was in layoff from major international company due to age discrimination 3 yrs ago. I only worked for the company 3 yrs, they made a mistake thinking it was 23 years. Yeah I just put lawyer on it. Educated older people have the knowledge and experience when to say why! In the 3 years I was there I completely straightened out the mess from a "younger guy" in the calibration dept. There are strict laws and rules that need to be followed and the younger guy could care less. The ones before him did the same. They had no clue on how to interact with people in meetings or with customers"like this, like that, like, like, like. I was replaced by guy 12 yrs younger, grade higher, no Cal experience, he lasted 3 months. He was replaced with ex Northwest Mech 45 yrs old who lasted 1 year because he had to work too hard. Set the world on fire! Yeah the young do that, and the older experienced folks put out the fires. I switched to be a historian and created a National Park, Coldwater Unit, and give advice to NPS on it's history, and preservation. Free! At the same time, staffing companies for 3 years put out the word they are "not hiring old people because they are going to retire soon anyways." I am 60 years young! I can't find enough time to do all the things I have going on. I light the fire under the butts of others to do what they are hired to do. I rock the boat everyday to force them to adhere to state and fed laws in preservation of historic lands. Free! Created a museum while I was at it a few years back and several other interpretive sites also. Free!

Hey Bill - if you actually took the time to read that legislation instead of just copying the link, you'd see that the majority of the provisions (including universal coverage) don't take effect until 2014.

Assuming, that is, that the GOP doesn't find a way to take it away before then.

Well said Tessmacher. Jesus was a liberal. Lincoln was a liberal too. Caring for those who cannot care for themselves is a liberal concept, imagine that! I've been supporting myself since age 16 when my parent died. I'm in my 50's, earned scholarships and paid for my education through grad school and medical school. Worked 3 part time jobs while in college and never once thought of asking for hand outs but I would not hesitate to help a fellow human being because that was the way my parent taught me. I work for a major medical center with near 5000 employees. I dare to say one out of 4 workersjust don't want to be there but don't want to quit for fear of losing medical insurance. If we have universal healthcare, these folks will be out the door in a blink, then we can hire people who really want to work and care for sick patients. I review drug screens for all new hires. We got a couple of hundred openings that we can't fill because these applicants just can't pass the drug screen if their lives depend on it. I'm talking about drug use among those between ages 18 to 50's. Some tried to justify that it's just a little marijuana but my reply is always the same, "Would you trust a nurse high on marijuana to care for your mother in the ICU or on the operating table?" A little common sense and a little compassion will go a long way. I've worked for the VA at times and they got the most efficient health system that we can all model after but the "free market" fanatics just can't see the light.

True ... despite all the whining by a lot of veterans ... who would moan about gold being too heavy to carry if you offered the a couple of bars ... could you deliver?

VA hospitals, their record keeping is all on computers, their pharmacy is computerized and mailed on schedule. All the patient needs to do is show and follow directions. Other than that - its mostly automated.

When I was a kid - my family being military - we were forced to hand carry, hand deliver all our medical records every time we changed duty station.. and 9 times out of 10, once we turn the records over to the hospital - sooner or later some one would ask us to come in and get a whole battery of shots "again" - because they lost the records, misplaced them or swear we never turned them in.

It may not be Marcus Welby M.D. but for working effiecently with 1000's of patient every day... its the only way to go.

Got to give credit to the VA, they make a big turn around in a relatively short period of time. They used to rate at the bottom ... no, in fact they were the bottom for patient care and record keeping - now they are the example other should emulate.

Tessmacher... first of all, you are the one who brought politics into a discussion that is apolitical for no other reason than for you to go on a tirade. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Secondly, you start your post complaining about the use of the world "liberal" and then spend the rest of your posting making gross generalizations about conservatives. I guess you have a set of double standards. People like you are the reason there is so much hate-filled discussions on these news boards.

And to LonesomeGeorge -- the word "liberal" has a different meaning depending on the context. And most people are "liberal" up to a point. For example, they are willing to help people who are truly down on their luck versus someone who is in a bad position because of their wrong-doing. Get a clue!

THAT is the entitlement mentality we've been talking about. Our system only exists because companies give enough money to give their employees purchasing power.

Besides, I don't think any other system has a history of making the general population rich beyond belief.

Heyyetanother If companies didn't pay enough, they would not be able to sell their products to consumers. That would be self defeating, To-days pay scale demands a worker to buy things on credit. Cars and such, not every town has public transit where people can afford to go back and forth to work. For a tenth of the cost of owning and maintaining car. So companies need to pay a decent wage to exit. That said with all of the jobs that were shipped overseas, there is a lot of competition for the jobs that are available, so naturally companies will hire older workers at lower wage because they know that can. And people will take these jobs because they need the job. Wages will not be going up for quite awhile. That also includes the health care that employees have to pay more for. The economy is really coming back isn't?????????

LOL, I actually make more per hour than I did in 2009. At that time I got 24.86 now I get $25 but it isnt full time permanent.

I am 6 mos away from getting my BS in computer science and have had several job offers. I'm 47! If you cannot find a job please consider finding new skills or doing some charity work to keep yourself in the network. Granted computer science isn't for everyone; just the idea of 8 math classes almost intimidated me enough to not do it. But it can be done. I was scared to death that employers would find me too old to hire, but to my surprise they were impressed that I took on school and a new career.

Just curious Tammy, will you ever use any of the math taught in the 8 math classes?

Yank, yes absolutely.

Americans are going to have to face that entrepreneurship is the only way money will be made. And a part of that would be to refuse to purchase goods or services from off-shore.

Current businesses are stuck in a 2008 "we don't pay $h!t" business model. New life must be breathed into the system.

If older workers are more likely to be loyal, then they are most likely to be stupid.

Younger workers become older workers. Younger workers need the jobs to create families that buy the goods and services that companies want to sell. Younger workers were trained by older workers from the age of 2 on up to 18. They are many times more experienced, more realistic and less political than their older counterparts. Hire a young worker today, get a great older worker tomorrow.

I'm 59 years old btw.

I'm an older worker who has worked the past 35 years in IT. I have tons of work experience and technical skills. However, since I've been unemployed since last August, the only job I can get is at the entry level in customer service - a field that I do love, but would like to apply my IT experience in a better paying IT job. Unfortunately, it seems like the IT jobs are going more to the younger job force. I can understand that, but I do think there's an "older" worker discrimination at work here when it comes to new IT jobs. I've even taken a certification course on software testing, but this doesn't seem to make much difference.

While I will continue to work until retirement age, I wish the IT field would be more open to older workers. Even though we're older, our work ethic is better and some of us are as sharp and technically knowledgeable as the younger crowd.

I find it ironic that American employers still talk about how "loyal" certain employees can be.

When they stopped showing any loyalty to the American workforce years ago.

When they're called on it, they say "oh, it's just business". So, isn't it "just business" for their employees as well?

Wrong ...

If they have time, its only because they shuttle the little ones off to Mom 'n Pop - for "free" baby sitter / child care, then constatly call to insure their wishes are being maintained. "Cause, God knows the don't know how to raise kids?

Some actually feel they are doing the Grands a favor by letting them baby sit ? Can you believe that.

Beowolf: yes, yes..."back in my day" all parents were perfect and the world was grand...Oh get off it. Geez...like life isn't hard enough without bashing entire GENERATIONS.

You said something very important, AP. Bashing entire generations is as inaccurate as bashing entire ethnic groups or genders. The real problem today is that we ALL are hurting. Twenty-somethings with degrees from top colleges can't take advantage of precious building-block years because of job shortages. Mature workers are "set out to pasture" before they are ready to retire, both emotionally and financially. We all are in trouble and name-calling isn't a solution to the problem.

Beowulf.... you're right about the grandparent thing.

I had no clue until my late ex mother in law, who really was an absolute gem, clued me in to this fact one day. Her oldest son and his wife would come to visit from a neighboring town, and would spend the weekend.... along with their three kids. Of course the 'big' kids thought it was just fine to take naps, and let mom and dad watch the three darlings. Of course mom never said a word about it. But she did change course on one thing. She kept an immaculate house, and would always 'clean' before they got there. She finally wised up, and let it go till they had left...LOL Helen Marie, you were the best.

I have to agree with the loyalty sentiment. I am not very loyal to my companies that I work for. I show up on time. I shut up and don't complain. I do my job and get paid. I move on when the time is right for me. Because when times get tough, they'd send me packing without a second thought, loyalty be damned.

Older workers are more inclined to be loyal and are most likely to have more time available in their personal schedules that can be made available for overtime when needed.

Older workers are more loyal because they know at their age, there is no where else to go. I know people who would love to quit their jobs, but they're only a few years from the gold retirement package.

Younger workers have families that require their presence at home.

Older workers may have parents that they need to take care of, or sick spouses.

Thank you parents for giving us a robust, educated and realistic crop of young workers. Too bad the old fart prejudiced mindnumb bosses are in charge.

Do yourself a favor, hire a youngster today, reap rewards tomorrow. But then, being as old as you are, you probably won't be around tomorrow. LOL

IMHO--as an executive recruiter for over 20 years, without even meeting you I can tell that I'd never present you to a client.

So right IMHO. We need to hire these youth while they still "Know everything"!

headhunter22, I could not have said it better!

DisgustedConservative has it exactly right!!!

The subversion of our educational system by the "father of American education" John Dewey is just about complete.

He studied the works of Wilhelm Wundt - Leizig Germany. Wundt "discovered" and pushed the man-is-an-animal school of Psychology.

Wundt was financed and programmed by the Rothschilds who inspired and financed Bismark and then Hitler.

Pavlov studied and applied Wundt and there went Russia.

The Rockefellers were educated by the same souless Nazis and also helped finance Hitler and every modern war.

How many financial literacy courses are taught in schools? Money is EARNED not owed to you. Students today, with few exceptions, believe money comes from the government, falls from trees, isowed to them by rih uncle Waldo, etc. The welfare state mentality has taken over our country!

Why?

Because it makes us dependent on and thus embracive of the police state.

Depopulation to follow.

But all this is obvious and can be verified by LOOKING What is also obvious is that the bankster cult controlled media is accelerating the promotion of class warfare - in this case young versus old.

Kill the old folks, drug the young.

Great plan!

NWOwatchdog: The Powell Manifesto, Aug. 23, 1971 matches your description. Before that, there were financial literacy courses, economics classes, debate and critical thinking. There was serious vocational training, classes that prepped the young to succeed in business, education, research and development, the arts, and so much more. By 2010, the only tested items for NCLB based API/AYP scores were English and Math. Many schools stopped teaching anything but these two subjects. History, social studies, and science were marginalized.

John Dewey gave us the decimal system used in libraries. He also organized public education, and until Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell interfered, our system was the best in the World.

I think parents also need to take responsibility for creating a work ethic in their children. In addition to curriculum, I am not sure that an educational system that has to take on the role of parenting, eliminating the ills of society, teach values, and provide for life can be done in the limited time students are in school.

the job of the younger generation is to be better then the older generation but this is hard to do when the older generation wants to be friends with their kids & hang out together at bars & tattoo shops, not saying all but I have seen this becoming more & more common

DisgustedConservative,

I bet you'd say the same for the union boys who are older. Speaking only for myself, I've seen baby boomers nap on the job and only do the absolute minimum of what was required of them. Which is why I was hired with 1 year of experience at a pay grade higher than they'd been wallowing in for 10 years. I was a more capable employee in 3 months than they were in the 15 years at that job.

That said, I know a blanket statement doesn't cover all boomers that way. My current boss is a boomer and is the smartest man I know. He works from 7:30am to 8:30pm every day and only takes a single 15 minute break for lunch. I feel like a lazy slob for working 11 hours and taking a 30 minute lunch break.

Bashing the NEA in an article about seniors working? Opportunist.

Disgusted is probably too young to know that the Powell Doctrine is what started Corporate America. He was a lawyer for the big tobacco company before being appointed to Supreme Court by Nixon. Powell started the corporate takeover of our nations most elite schools and made education unaffordable to most kids nowadays.

I'm past the big 60 and loved every working day, because I learned something new each day. That is what makes work interesting. I Miss working on the Space Shuttle because, rocketry was my hobby, so I really never worked at all, just had a blast. No pun intended. Launch days will be greatly missed also.

I disagree that most are tech savy. The oldsters I'm around could run circles around some of these kids.

I will say that those who aren't are the ones who retired years ago and simply don't see the need. But those of us still in the workforce know that it's keep up or GET OUT. And we choose to keep up.

Personally, I'd rather be around those who kept up instead of the younger ones who can't seem to get their head out of their phones and ipads because they simply don't know HOW to hold a decent verbal conversation without texting every 2 seconds. Annoying as hell. No wonder Gen Y doesn't know how to REALLY communicate - they've NEVER tried.

Wrong... again.

These older workers "are" technology. Most of the new technology is based on fracturing the safeguards installed in the basic foundations of previous tech.

Its like you can make a car run faster, do more if -- you take off the brakes, remove the recovery systems and accept errors as part of the operating parameters, rather than install checks and error recovery.

In return; all we have to do is accept constant, running upgrade, massive attacks against the systems and loss of privacy. That is the benefit of New tech. Very few new tech understand the foundations of networking, DB configuration - its to mundane and technical, they are more involved with the "big picture"... that is why older workers are valuable, they implement and allow the new tech to inch its way to reliability, accountability, integrity and security.

The youngsters can't be bothered with anything other than starting a break out company, IPO's and raping the consumer for profit.

DH says that many old folks are afraid of high tech which may be true.

But some of us were working on the internet while Al Gore, the self-proclaimed "father of the internet" was still soiling his nappies.

The internet was originally delveloped with US taxpayer money as the World Wide Command and Control System. Taxes paid by the "old folks".

Get it?

COMMAND AND CONTROL!

Today it is operational - the police state commands and controls. You have no privacy left if you constantly use the internet - this includes cell phones.

Youth, middle aged and elderly have all been betrayed by our politicians, military "leaders" and "mainstream" media heads who are completely controlled by the Rothschild/Rockefeller bankster cult.

By the way - Beowulf has it right.

The "new tech" is based on either beauty contests - which APPLE usually wins - or fracturing the tech basics and then coming up with new work arounds for the problems created by fracturing the basics.

Then the "new techies" get financed by the banksters who hype their stock and when it gets near a high, bail out and then sell it short all the way down. Reference first great harvesting of American wealth with the interet bubble/burst in the late 90s.

The technical basis for the internet has not changed since the 60s - the integrated circuit, high speed communication lines, packet switching which sends out the message in pieces redundantly and reassembles the message at receipt point and an address scheme that gets a message travelling on multiple lines from A to B - today called Internet Protocol.

The "new tech" and youth's addiction to being very interesting using social networking make it very easy for the police state control freak data collection groups like the NSA, CIA, MI6, Mossad, FBI, etc to monitor and control the population for the genocidal ends of their masters.

But where did we REALLY get all these "tech breakthroughs? The Integrated circuit, Fiber Optic for broadband data transfer and minimal electronic interference over mega speed communication limes? Kevlar that is used to clad fiber? Night vision? Cloaking of aircraft, etc.

Google "Roswell Technology" and make up your own mind.

Is our "new tech" a joke?

Has MUCH better tech had been is use for many thousand of years?

Don't ask the police state governments - they have a perfect track record of withholding technology until it can be used to control and depopulate.

@NWOwatchdog gimmie a hit of that ! must be good stuff man

I'm pulling for your grandchildren and everyone elses grandchildren. Unelect the GOP and get corporations out of governance. Bolster our public education and build America again. We can be so much more than we are, but not if we abandon our children.

Well spoken from teachers' union employee!Where exactly have you read that Rebublicans want to do away with public education!Sounds like another Democrap lie!I would like for someone to restrict access to public schools from illegal aliens!

The 1% now control the 99%...and, the little simple minded GOP staff and voting population has no idea what the old slave labor camps real means in their lives today.

Dear JanLynn: Do your unborn grandchildren a favor and don't allow your own offpring to have any. And where in the world did you get that the GOP wants to do away with public schools so that we can all be enlightened.

Isn't it sad to see so many seduced into this idiotic " Obamathink" class warfare? A mind is a terrible thing to waste!

Isn't it sad that this Obama-hate idiocy carries over to every discussion, every public policy regardless of what's good for the nation, and then it's biggest backers turn around and blame OBAMA for causing their hate of their fellow Americans? A mind is indeed a terrible thing to waste.

To JanLynn-2276098: Might I suggest that you attempt to adapt to the circumstances. Your home is worth 250K? Have you looked for a livable place in the US where you could have a decent home for 150K $? You could then pocket the 100K.... Just a suggestion.

I didn't read the Republicans want to do away with public education, but I sure saw Rick Santorum say it.

SRK;

Easy for you to say, tried selling a house lately? All this "home sales" jump is B.S. There are houses that have been on the market for two years and haven't sold, unless of course you are willing to sell the 250K house for 90K. Your suggestion is not based in today's reality.

And AP14***** It is Obama's inaction and unfulfilled promises that have cause the back lash. Obama promise much and delivered nothing, just as said he would when he started his bid for the presidency. After all, and be honest, how many of you actually ever heard of the junior senator from Illinois before '07? Few if any is the honest answer. True enough both houses with their childish bickering are to blame as well. Neither side is willing to compromise or let go of their respective ideology, so nothing gets done.

And PUH-LEEESE don't respond with "but he got Bin Laden", no he did not, he signed an order, same as any other president could have done, actually it could have been authorized by the joint chiefs, or a command general, his personal involvement was just political currency. It was the Rangers and SEAL's in theater that got Bin Laden. Unless he went in, he didn't do squat. Sorry but he don't wear no cape, just a badly fitting suit.

Rebublicans want to do away with public education!Sounds like another Democrap lie!I would like for someone to restrict access to public schools from illegal aliens!

For every 1 half way decent Charter school (which drains money from Public education) there are many more which hide behind (choice) to fund the merger of Religious based education as a substitute for Public education. If the Right has a problem with Choice (birth control, abortion, funding community colleges, state college, universities) then why the exemption for Charter schools?

If you are for choices - then be open toward choice - cafeteria style choice is not the way to go.

Gaming the system, using public monies to build fund exclusive schools and services is wrong and you know it...

beoweolf,

charter schools actually get less funding than public schools. the charter in my school district does many things public schools can't do (even though the district get to keep 5% of the funding), cap sizes of classes, more adults working with the kids, lots of parent involvement. Oh yeah, no teacher tener (no jobs are safe for under performing teachers)!

... For every 1 half way decent Charter school (which drains money from Public education) there are many more which hide behind (choice) to fund the merger of Religious based education as a substitute for Public education...

I offer some respect for the few Charter Schools who do follow the rules as well as the "spirit of the rules"... yet your only comment is to use a "broad brush" in an attempt to White Wash the whole body of Charter schools are justified, based on the 1/2 or less who actually try to abide the rules, and offer equal access, equal or better curriculum to that offered by Public schools.

Proponents of Charter schools seldom find anything worhwhile in the Public School system, even though the majority of students, who do attend Public Schools, graduate, found and teach in Charter Schools. How is it possible that Public School is so bad, and yet - so many, if not the majority, of Charter school teachers have public school attendence in their background?

Is it possible - that what you get out of school, education is somehow related to your capacity to appeciate what is available there, then make efforts on your own to make up for the deficencies?

The thing about teachers is, there often comes a time when they out grow their teacher. The teacher you struggled to understand when you first started learning - lets say the guitar, may not be the teacher you need as you progress. Students are not open buckets where you pour in knowledge, they only take as much as they absorbe.

I've worked with newly graduated publicly educated young adults. Your prejudice is mindnumbing.

IMHO I have also seen the work of newly graduated and still in school educated young adults. It is called Jay Lenos Jay walking. Most are brain dead from USC.

USC(University of Spoiled Children).

IMHO,

Your repetitiousness in what's mind-numbing, especially for one who seems so convinced of his own abilities and worth. You gleefully seek to advance your own interests at the expense of others (many of whom have worked harder, longer, and probably much more diligently that you are ever likely to do), and then you feel the need to offer up some sort of justification. Yes, everyone older that you is brain dead, and only you, out of the legions of people in this country, are deserving. Is that what you needed to hear?

Where's the bucket? I need to spew....

BikeBoy: that's just absurd...that chip on your shoulder is HUGE and interfering with your common sense. When you see EVERYONE in a generation as worthless...it's not the generation that's the problem...

I have dealt with young graduates. I get turned off when I hear from them the following: We was...They was.....Me and my friend.....

No sonny, go back to school.

INHO;

Your bias is staggering. So indoctrinated are you that you fail to see what is right in front of you. Public school students consistently score below all standards. The grand social experiment that is the public schools began in the sixties and scores have fallen ever since. Every credible and yes, as many of these are liberal as are conservative, evaluation has shown this decline .

And yet, in the face of this the NEA and their liberal proponants have refused to acknowledge these facts. Our publicly educated students score behind every developed country in the world, when previously they were first of in the top three. Publicly educated students score far behind those in private and dare I say it, Religious schools in every category, when before the grand experiment, they were virtually equal. So continue your blind faith in a grotesquely failed experiment, just as you believe I imagine all the other failed social experiments has been a success. There are none so blind as those,(you) who WILL not see. Restore the public system to what it was BEFORE liberal academia and "social scientists", ( talk about an oxymoron), destroyed it. Then and only then will our children get a worthy education absent the liberal "the world owes you something" attitude.

Speaking strictly for myself, my college education prepared me for higher degrees, not for the working world. College isn't a trade school and shouldn't be. Everything I do at my job was learned on the job. What the college degree got me was the proof that I can commit myself to a long-term project and follow through, to be responsible for my own destiny and have the self motivation to complete a task. Plus I have the educational foundation to understand the background of what I do. It isn't tremendously useful day-to-day but occasionally comes in handy.

AMEN !!

The unemployment rate staying the same and more jobs being created are actually good things - although logically a decrease in unemployment would be much better. It's a sign that those who have waited to get back into the workforce, now have the enthusiasm to do so. They now see opportunity.

We will see this for the coming months, more jobs but a steady unemployment rate. It's part of the recovery process. But everyone, listen, things ARE getting better. Just wait it out.

Tad: obviously you're not using reasoning. The reason the rate stayed the same is because the economy is improving and more who had given up looking for work are back in the market looking. More job hunters keeps the rate the same, even with almost 250,000 new jobs a month. This is going to take a while...(we had 8 years of he who must not be named beating the economy to death...and the recovery from is just now picking up...)

Another aspect to the recovery that often gets overlooked. As more people find jobs, demand increases which creates more jobs to fill the demand.

Jobs have never been created by companies, jobs have been created by demand. The companies have simply filled the demand and needed to hire people to do it.

A company never hires people unless there is a need for what they are selling.

That's why trickle-down economics had such a catastrophic affect on our economy. As the wealthier became more so, the middle class had less money to create demand and the bottom fell out.

Let me reason a little more, Post Office 30,000 jobs going, UPS closing hundreds of locations domestic and foreign, Sears, K-Mart closing stores across the nation with more companies either closing or downsizing considerably.

Government still pumping fiat $ into Wall Street and financial via the Fed Reserve while price gas, food, basic needs are still rising because of the rising debt and out of control spending.

Lets not even start with the growing mortgage crisis, still dropping home values and true unemployment numbers.

The truth is we're not going to see any significant improvement in our current financial and economic mess until both parties in Congress and the Administration stop the dysfunctional politics and money games.

The truth is we're not going to see any significant improvement in our current financial and economic mess until both parties in Congress and the Administration stop the dysfunctional politics and money games.

Your "even handed" disgust might have meant something - back when GW was raiding the treasury, abridging our rights to privacy ... generally stumbling into every trap set for him - with guidence offered by his puppet master VP.

If there was one dirty, underhanded scheme GW didn't step into - it wasn't for lack if trying.

But so many of you had NOTHING to say ... until after the party was over. Well the hang-over is here and guess what ... no one forced you to do anything, now, "we" are faced with with the clean up - but all you want to do is absolve yourself of any of the blame.

None of that "What happens in Vegas..." hedonistic excuse / excess BS. You we involved and now "we" - even those of us who screamed --- this is unsustainable - but were ignored, villified and accused of being party poopers.

Yup...

... those are the jobs. take it or leave it. Ya see - the bean counters have it written in stone, they are not going to take the hit for the recession .... they will do what ever it takes to keep their "projected" profit margine. They got used to 30% - 40% margines and they intend to keep it that way. If they have cut (or restrict) salaries, make you do twice the work for half the pay, so be it. They have no intention to budge... even if the rest of the economy has to pay for their greed.

Your speaking of the great Republican capitalism. Fire the person over the age of 40 and hire them back at 1/2 the wages with no benefits.

Some people are willing to WORK, at whatever is available.

Not like the people who won't work at something "beneath thier haughty social status".

Remember that no one grows up wanting to be a McDonalds manager or to sell used car tires. But many adults who have responsibilities are willing to do whatever they need to do to PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES....they don't just whine that the government isn't paying for everything and won't supply extended unemployment payments.

Maybe it has something to do with your outstanding attitude!

Older workers aren't getting hired so much as staying in the jobs they already have, at least according to the article. This may not really be a good thing for the workers themselves, who would really rather retire according to the anecdotes in the story.

Actually, jumping in an entry level fast food job is not a bad thing. You show motivation and work ethic, and with the rapid turnover in the hospitality industry, you can move pretty quickly up the ladder. Restaurant managers aren't generally wealthy, but it was this whole "I want a yacht and Ferrari and vacation in Hawaii" mentality that got us into the bind we are in. I'm 45 and back in community college to get some new skills, did the Army until I retired but need to diversify. I am not looking to become rich. And if you don't want that "fast food" job, don't bash on younger people who take it. If your attitude is crappy, then that's what you get. I know a guy who claimed he won't take a job that pays less than "$70,000". My take, good luck with that one buddy. He's still not even getting called for interviews. Be thankful for what you get, and do your best at whatever it is. Your job doesn't define you as a person.

To SpeakYourMind;

Been in a Walmart lately? There's lots of part-timers age 50 and older working as greeters, stockers, cashiers. I see more of them than any other age group.

Walmart likes them because they are dependable and take their work seriously.

One lady in my neighborhood works there and she's over 70.

Now if only Walmart would pay a livable wage...

The older crowd don't look like the last shower they took was a week before Christmas!Uppppps!Can I still use that word!PMSNBC will probably ban me from commenting for such a transgression

The DEMOCRAPS' favorite tool to get elected is Lying!PMSNBC is a funnel for these lies!

If that is the case, then why read this article? You are obviously wasting your time.

Like Rush Limbaugh isn't lying?

ertemucha

And I suppose that Ed Schultz is telling the truth and nothing but the truth.

We do know that Rachel Maddow does lie and will not retract her statement.

There is a reason you "think" rachel Maddox is lying. Once you cut out the spiffy adjectives, shiny packaging which covers the box of crap GOPpers are selling - its hard to believe that what she is telling you (minus the claptrap) is exactly what they are offering.

Its like being told that some idiot was told to come out from behind that rock so I can shoot you - and he does it! Gets shot and dies on the spot... obviously - no one would do that.... there must have been something else going one?

Nope, some folk art just that brain dead. That is also why so many Liberals argue with Conservatives - Its impossible for any (sny sentian being) to beleive that someone will actively participate by voting to have their rights reduced! and fight to keep them these people going back to Congress - year, after year, after year... despite seeing the same thing happening. Eisenstein ~ the definition of madness its to repeat a mistake ... expecting the results to change.

What...?

You are not alone.........I'm having the same problem.

The hiring process was screwed up years ago when the companies started requiring people to be online with their resumes and when companies started requiring applicants to fill out their job applications online at each companies own website.

You forget another big factor you are judged on. Being unemployed. Although you may make almost as much on unemployment you will find if you are still unemployed 6 month from now it will be held against you. You are much better off taking whatever you can get work for 6 month to a year and then see if your prospects are better. We had to recently re=educate HR on the value of facebook... They were clearly informed for some jobs where sensitive information was concerned a person who blabs all his personal information would be a risk to unintentionally expose job related things also.

Totally agree that facebook is a huge problem. The fact that it is being incorporated into our work life now makes it a labor problem, also. As are drug tests, credit checks, etc.

There are instances that are pertinent to the specific job in question; those narrow conditions are within the bounds of HR investigation. But not more -- and that's what facebook is all about. HR in the vast majority of companies is not qualified to pass psychological judgment. Yet completely unqualified people are rejecting applicants based on ephemera.

As a society, this one is ailing.

Yet another reason to dislike HR ... inserting themselves between good workers and hiring managers with all sorts of nonsense. Shouldn't we have the technology by now for a manager to directly conduct his own candidate search without the HR middlemen?

We had to recently re=educate HR on the value of facebook... They were clearly informed for some jobs where sensitive information was concerned a person who blabs all his personal information would be a risk to unintentionally expose job related things also.

Face book - That is turning into a big problem. Older workers are reluctant to Scream "Look at me, Look at me" on face book. I've heard from some older colleagues who were looked at with incredulity when they explained they were not on face book! Seems some HR departments have taken to searching Face book as part of a "pre-employment" reference. So when they come up with nothing - they are concerned that the employee had or has something to hide. They want "full disclosure" - lack of access to your Face book ID was seen as suspicious.

It as alarming as going into a store and wanting to pay "cash" for a purchase rather that put it on a credit card. In both cases - if you have any idea of the possiblities, you would not be using or curtail extensive use of either service. Didn't we learn anything from the last 8 years. You give your data to a faceless entity and what they do with it - no one knows, even worse, their data bases are compromised with alarming frequency and in larger volumes almost weekly.

An intellegent person would be smart to avoid Social networking as a worthy precaution.

John

Your HR division is wise to use Facebook as a determining factor. And you're exactly right - if you can't keep your mouth shut, then you are a risk factor.

It's called DISCRETION. And the kids don't have an inkling of the meaning of the word. They want to shout everything in their lives to the world and for everyone to hear.

And Matt - the directive to HR is totally valid. If you can't keep your yap shut and learn descretion, then you have no business getting the job. No company wants an employee running his mouth all over the place. This is something kids can't seem to understand. If they'd get their heads out of the iPhone and and learn how to actually WORK, then they might have a idea that you can't go blabbing things to everybody just because you think you can.

Hey, it's at least a JOB, regardless of what it is. Doesn't have to be a career, just a step to one.

What? are you too good for it?

You are the Poster Child for exactly what's wrong with today's youth.

You think that you're somehow entitled to someone else's job simply by virtue of your existence? You think that someone who is working is "greedy" because they have a job and you don't.

All I can say is Wow.

Wow is absolutely right!

At the end of GP51's rant, the commenter has the idiocy to encourage people to "smartin up!" There are so many ways to upend that entire argument that choosing just one is simply too easy.

I think that other posts are spot on that older folks (like me at age 60, and recently lost my position because of funding) worry about health care costs. When I do the math its at least 1/3 of my monthly expense and I dont have a preexisting condition yet thank God. This is why folks 55 and older dont want to retire

It's not right to call older workers "greedy" when they don't retire. They're trying to meet basic medical expenses, so you can't blame them.

It's also not right to generalize that all young people are lazy, entitled, etc. Each individual is different, regardless of age, race, gender, etc. Treating them otherwise because of who they are is called prejudice, and it's illegal in hiring decisions.

Is it prejudicial to remark on the fact that millions of "Boomerang" young adults have (against historical statistics) came back home, with families in tow, in unprecedented number ... even when they could afford to rent or buy a home of their own... but didn't like the neighborhoods they could afford?

What happend to buying what you can afford and making it better. Instead of wanting the benefits but not be willing to take reponsiblity of raising the family you were so determined to have - before you could afford it. Oh - but had no problem with demaning that Mom 'n Pop, spring for the "Big Church wedding" and all the trimming (Island Honey moon, etc).

Then still moving back in?

These older adults don't post their family problems on Face book... the prefer the anonymnity of advice cotmuns. read a few and see how big a problem this has become.

They don't broadcast it, becase they were not raised that way - family in family. They expect their kids to not "dip into the family well" unless there is no other recourse... but the kids look at as Unless the Parents lock the doors - they are entitlied anything they can ask for, unless the parents say no, its enough.

The generation difference is between Pride vs. abuse of family ties.

I truly apologize for being so insensitive to your needs. I did not realize that my having a job prevented you from obtaining a job. Shall I commit Hara-Kiri for you?

NO! our young are representatives of entitlements { I.E. ] Democrats wake up MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GP51 . . why don't you just get a Pell Grant and re-enroll in school. Then hope that the POTUS will forgive that debt too!!

To GP51;

I'm guessing you also think that all the working women are "taking jobs away from a

man?"

Are eh?: Didn't even try one though - hmm?

SRK: Please do!

Karen: Absolutely!! Back in the kitchen where you belong!!!!

Thought so, think you might be happier in some other country like Iran. Yeah.. I think you'd fit right in!

Karen: Shut up b**** and fetch my slippers and beer! After I catch my buzz I might just have to pleasure you whether you want it or not!!

GP21. There is no humor in your comments. You're Evil. Pure, unadulterated Evil.

Have fun with that. Your anger will take you far in life.

Diogenes: You can spread your legs for me as soon as I'm done with karen. Whether you want to or not!!!! b**** mm mm good!

And exactly what do you expect for your $5.00 an hour? If it's so easy why not do it yourself? Lazy and cheap maybe??? Sounds like it to me!!

GP51

You must not have worked in a very long time. Minimum wage is $7.25 now.

GP51...Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept 'any job worth doing is worth doing right'. Some people have a work ethic and a degree of integrity that insists they do their task well, regardless of the pay.

JEM - You are a complete and total A $$ Hat. With any luck the Universe will remove you from not only the labor pool but the gene pool.

Its not "sending the economy" off a cliff ... if you were the one that put the money in the bank in the first place.

Before this generation, there was no Social Security, there was no Mass transit, there were no Mega-schools with computer classes, AP classes, 5 million dollar "High School" football fields, School trips over the summer - to Japan, China, Africa, Europe.

You are Welcome... now do your part!

"It's not fair!" Who cares! As far as generation worthless goes I don't care about them at all. For every one thats worth gold the other 99 are worth feces. Instead of hunkering down and moving forward they stop, drop and cry unfair. Social security for workers is not an entitlement, it's money removed from my wages as a crappy forced retirement insurance. You should only get what you had removed. If you didn't work you get nothing, if you spend it all up and go broke so be it. The older workers have nothing to fear because generation worthless is no competition at all. Go play your games in mommas basement and maybe, just maybe I'll toss my apple core at you so you can eat when momma kicks your selfish carcass out.

When the economy is strained by excessive debt burden like this, do not hope to find employers who can hire people. They are in trouble too. Their customers are in trouble too. Everybody is in debt and nobody wants to spend. It is a deflationary crash. It is Uncle Sam's borrowing spree that keeps things a float now.

U3 is not an accurate indicator of unemployment. There are many people who want a job but they do not qualify for benefits and they are not counted! Real unemployment is about 16-20% right now. Another way to look at unemployment picture is to count who is actually employed:

www.kondratieffwavecycle.com/unemployment/

This is a man made problem. Debt based monetary system is destined for a deflationary crash. It did not have to be this way. Google for "DEFLATIONARY CRASH" to understand the money mechanics.

Sammy--Great letter, but all the indicators are positive. Unemployment is down, manufacturing is up, and the stock market is up. Life is good thanks to President Obama's initiatives to head off a depression. Can't argue with success, eh?

refriedbean - I disagree. Unemployment may be down, but how many people are underemployed or quit looking at all. I know they keep saying we are doing better, but if the question was asked by this president "Are you better off today than four years ago?" I would say NOOOOOO!!! No raise for 3 years after taking a pay cut and health care going up 14% next year. Almost makes you want to quit and go on welfare.