E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
John Schoen, msnbc.com
Manufacturing accounts for 9 percent of the U.S. workforce, compared with 28 percent in 1960 and 12 percent just a decade ago.
President Barack Obama is on the road this week touting a plan to bring jobs back to the United States, in part by bolstering manufacturing here.
It’s no secret that’s a tough challenge.
The United States has lately seen an increase in manufacturing jobs, something Obama noted in his State of the Union address Tuesday. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, about 330,000 manufacturing jobs have been created over the past two years, bringing the total to nearly 11.8 million as of December.
Still, that is a nearly 2 million short of the 13.7 million manufacturing jobs that existed when the economy went into recession in December 2007. And it’s far fewer than in the late 1970s, when more than 19 million Americans -- out of a much smaller work force -- were employed in manufacturing, which was seen as a key path to a middle-class life.
Manufacturing may be bouncing back, but it is returning in a far different form. The recession washed out many inefficent companies, leaving behind operations that even leaner and more highly automated. That means they can make do with fewer workers even as they increase production.
As a recent series of stories in The New York Times has highlighted, successful companies like Apple have prospered largely by mastering a global supply chain that depends on sending work overseas to take advantage of low-cost labor.
Obama is hoping that tax breaks and other incentives will help encourage manufacturers to keep jobs here, or even bring some back. Time will tell whether that is true.
Related:
Why companies aren’t hiring more workers
Leave a Comment:
America did away with slavery. But companies like Apple support slavery in other countries, interesting.
“mastering a global supply chain “Guess we’ll get our jobs back in a few hundred years or so, gotta love MSNBC!
Having worked on several different factory floors right here in good old America, I can assure you that economic slavery is alive and well right here at home. Our international trade treaties and practices are destroying the American worker while enriching the one tenth of one percent.
We are a small manufacturer and our employment is down 22% from 2008. Business has picked up some but we are not currently hiring. We had to get more efficient and that was about 8% of the 22%. Those jobs are gone forever. People are working more overtime...About 6% of the 22%. The balance is just lower sales. Why overtime and not hiring which would save us overtime pay? Not sure how new regulations, health care costs, tax changes and the economy will effect us since it is all in limbo. Therefore we will continue to pay down debt and reduce our break even point.
until Congress changes the tax code, which does not tax a foreign subsidiary of a company doing business in the United States, jobs will not return; this entire melt-down was and is caused by Congress taking campaign money from the lobbyists, in exchange for all the treaty's we have signed and excluding their overseas subsidiary from American taxes, in some cases allowing a write off against earnings in the U.S., insanity is the word, Congress is the villain.
teo-359675 " Why overtime and not hiring which would save us overtime pay? Not sure how new regulations, health care costs, tax changes and the economy will effect us since it is all in limbo."
As much as Obama tries to deny it, that record 81,000 pages of new regulations in his first year in office (2009) was anti-business and has discouraged hiring.
It's not really much of a surprise that Obama's anti-business policies have resulted in the weakest 'recovery' in history, and persistent high unemployment.
We can look for very lean economic times for the near term future because;
1 – Banks are being required to raise their 'Capital Reserves' significantly, and they can only do this by either getting investors to buy banks stocks (good luck, since banks are very shaky now and subject to ever more stringent regulations) or by reducing the amount of loans that banks make. When bank lending gets ever more difficult and expensive, that will severely affect economic growth.
2 – The skyrocketing Debt in the United States will ultimately have to be reduced to avoid debt downgrades or much higher interest rates because of default fears. When some of the cheap money that the Fed has been pumping into the economy is reduced, it will also lead to a real drag on the economy and higher interest rates as well as severe 'Austerity' programs. The current level of 'printed money' that has been injected into the economy will have to be reduced to avoid massive inflation – “What goes UP must come DOWN”.
3 – Slow economic growth will result in an increase in the Unemployment Rate as more graduates enter the workforce, and that in turn will lead to more anger and frustration. The Occupy Wall Street (OWS) movement is merely a symptom of the frustration of young people who have few opportunities, but they mistakenly blame it on Wall Street, when the reality is that it is the result of failed government policies. Obama's “Wealth Redistribution” policies have been a disaster, and are making people 'equally poor' instead of growing the economy. Anti-business policies have ALWAYS made the economy worse than it needed to be – just look at the example in Europe whenever the government tried to take over major segments of their economies. Invariably, they found that 'Nationalization' of industries stifled economic growth and led to waste and abuse, and they had to 'Privatize' them again to get their economies growing. Governments are simply not geared to run anything efficiently – Social policy always gets in the way of competitive efficiency. The grand 'Social Justice' policies of Obama have been an abysmal failure.
teo-359675, to repeat a lower post, and let me say that I feel your pain attempting to manufacture on a playing field that resembles the rocky mountains.
The manufacturing fix is simple to explain, unfair tariffs, unfair currency manipulation, trade agreements that disrespect worker rights, environmental laws and safety regulations. Throw in our Federal reserve printing money faster than a speeding bullet and you have a race to the bottom for American manufacturing and the American worker in general.
What's not so simple is to change it. Politically the general public would have to understand the issues and stop supporting corrupt government practices that favor the one tenth of one percent.
American reading and comprehension skills are at there lowest point in history because of that I have little hope of effective change.
By the way, the price for a gallon of gasoline when Obama took office was $1.84, and it is now $3.40, an increase of $1.56 per gallon (85%).
His policies of moratoriums on drilling and new regulations against using our own abundant (a) natural resources is hitting our pocketbooks in a big way.
When Obama says that we need to use all of our energy resources, I'm surprised that he doesn't get laughed off of the stage.
(a) - America has more fossil fuel reserves than any other nation on Earth, but Obama has blocked development - Here's a link to the Congressional Research Service report;
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=34233
It's funny that Republicans deride Obama for making regulations when in fact Obama has created 5% less regulations than Bush.
Sounds like the republicans are fond of regulations as well.
Take a real look and you'll see oil output has increased. More oil doesn't help as much as more refineries. And none have been built in years. Your car runs on gasoline not oil. Also international demand has been consistently rising. You know supply vs demand. Third OPEC has the most power in manipulating the pricing.
When you blame a president for the price of oil then you show you have no grasp of macro economics, international policy, price elasticity or common sense.
But thanks for playing.
Also banks are being required to hold more funds is a fed. monetary policy independant of the president. He may have input but he is not in control.
As for your slow economic growth I guess it doesn't help when you shrink government by 2.3% otherwise the US would have been at 3%+ a sustainable number.
Lastly, since both parties couldn't agree on what cuts to make didn't that plan automatically take 1.2T from the predicted expenditure for the coming decade.
I guess Obama's grand plan of 4T reduction was to the Repub liking. They're fine with cuts as long as it base doesn't get affected.
Adam
Dodd-Frank ring a bell??
The writer makes comparison between the numbers of manufacture worker numbers between the 50s and 70s and now, the decline between these periods was mostly impacted by the introduction of computerized automated systems.
Therefore any comparison with worker numbers in factories from these times is inaccurate.
NYTimes posted a good article about Apple. Yeah, I'm sure Americans are eager to get manufacturing jobs back to US so they can get paid minimum wage to work in horrible and dangerous work conditions while the employer continues to make record profits. What a joke.
Apple supports slavery in other countries? Don't forget American consumers obsessed with having the latest technology as fast as possible. Plenty of blame to go around.
Yeah Roy and where was the price of gas just before the crash? Almost $4 a gallon ring a bell? As a matter of fact, the high price of gas was one of many causes of the sudden crash, people cut spending because they were seeing such high gas prices and it cost so much to fill their tanks.
You're so transparent in your partisan twist on every number you march out.
ROY WILSON-336103
By the way, the price for a gallon of gasoline when Obama took office was $1.84, and it is now $3.40, an increase of $1.56 per gallon (85%).
Odd - I distinctly remember gas approaching $5 / gallon in FL in the summer of 2008. Nice fact twisting Roy.
Go to gasbuddy.com and look it up.
@ROY WILSON-336103
Yes, the redistribution of wealth upward to large corporations (especially the financial, energy, healthcare industries that are the biggest donors) and their executive ranks has done such wonders for the U.S. economy and the general U.S. population over the past generation.
So, tell me WHY it is OK to redistribute upward? Tell me what the country as a whole has gotten out of it.
The reality is the laws and regulations (and the court system that enforces them) are skewed toward the needs and wants of a tiny minority. This is the real reason for the economic malaise. When you break down the economic foundation of your country and then try to build on top of quicksand, what did you expect the result would be? Economic vitality? Growth and prosperity?
Welcome to the real world, man!
@ROY WILSON-336103
I noted how you used "fossil fuel" instead of oil in your claim about U.S. reserves.
Yes, the U.S. has one of the largest coal reserves in the world (China does too). But, it is useless because it is such a dirty fuel (seen the air pollution in Shanghai lately?). And, you cannot burn coal to run your car, truck, airplane. Yes, there are synfuels made from coal but they are very energy-intensive (read expensive) to make.
The U.S. also has one of the largest natural gas reserves (Russia does too). But, it is usless if you need it for transportation. And, like coal, you have synfuels like LNG but they are impracticle for transportation uses. Great for electrical power plants and heating your home but that's it. The last time I looked, there has been a huge fracking boom and natural gas prices are really low (especially compared to oil).
The oil reserves in N America are gone dude. What you will find 50+ miles offshore is expensive to find and drill and transport are a pittance compared to what we use to have. Not to mention dangerous. And, because we only have a small beachhead to the Arctic (aka Alaska), the U.S. has little claim to any reserves if they ever find anything up there (Russia and Canada will have the biggest claims). Even then, it would be very expensive to work in the Arctic so oil prices are never going to go below $70/bbl in such a world. Things like oil sands and tar sands are even harder and more expensive to dig out and refine.
If you don't know anything about the industry, stop the wild claims.
...the redistribute upward economic factor, $5,000/year (USD) for China manufacturing wages, $12,000/year (USD) for India engineer wages, $20,000/year (USD) for India project mgr wages. Business done on the cheap...
payscale.com/research/IN/Country=India/Salary
xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=1000000&From=inr&To=usd
In addition to everything mentioned by Larry. Possibly you didn't hear, but in 2011 the US was a net exporter of petroleum products.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/05/us-on-pace-to-become-net-fuel-exporter/
Funny how those oil companies are not keeping that gas in the US and pushing down prices. Will you call on a moratorium on gasoline and petroleum product exports? I know it isn't very free market, but these oil companies are not passing on the savings. What's wrong with the free market? Oh wait the free market doesn't care about domestic borders and which country will use the oil.
Drill baby, drill!!
That will lower the cost of gasoline? Right? What do you mean it won't?
He probably doesn't have a very good long term memory and does not understand how gas went from near $4 per gallon to under $2 in a relatively short period of time.
Somehow the fall of 2008, when the world economy cratered, is missing from his memory. Probably part of that whole right wing amnesia during the 8 years of Bush. Those years have been erased from their memory.
When activity started to resume in 2009 and 2010, it is only natural that demand would increase and price would therefore increase as well.
Unfortunately narrow minded ignorant people find statistics to reinforce their own perceptions of reality regardless how devoid of facts they are.
when the price of gas goes up this summer it is just the gas guy making the prez look bad.sarcasm
Give it a rest, half-wit. First of all, there's nothing peculiar to Apple in any of them. Each and every electronic device you own, including the one you used to post this brilliant comment, is made in similar conditions. Maybe in the same factory.
Second, these ARE NOT the sort of manufacturing jobs that America should have. They are low-skill, insert-tab-A-into-slot-B-5000-times-a-day jobs.
@Mark
There is a lot more than low-skill involved. This is the spectrum of highly skilled employment moving offshore...
www-07.ibm.com/in/research/media/research_age.html
For a close examination of the cause, look to the following numbers. PhDs participating in research in India have a median salary that is approximately $50,000/year (USD), while a PhD in Western countries median salary is approximately $135,000/year (USD). Do not be dismissive of this issue.
payscale.com/research/IN/Employer=International_Business_Machines_(IBM)_Corp./Salary/by_Degree
payscale.com/research/US/Employer=International_Business_Machines_(IBM)_Corp./Salary/by_Degree
xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=2440000&From=inr&To=usd
There is a VERY substantial gap for Master of Business Administration (MBA), and Master of Computer Science (MCS) also. This issue extends into most all skilled professions.
thehackettgroup.com/about/alerts/alerts_2010/alert_12022010.jsp
Have you forgotten that gasoline hit a high of well over $4.00 per gallon in mid 2008, BEFORE the last presidential election? That was on Baby Bush's watch, so don't go laying this at Obama's doorstep.
One Viner spoke of upwards wealth redistribution and asks why.... Economics Slavery. It will NEVER STOP until we take our representation back. We no longer need representative government. We need direct vote into government with accountability. Governments, in collecting taxes, have a contract with me to represent me and provide with some services. If that contract is broken then I should get my taxes back as a consumer of government. There is simply no other way going forward.
So when North Korea starts opening industrial parks, I guess everything will move there next...
It is never too late to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. It may be too late for someone in their 50's, but not for someone in their 20's.
I would be delighted to see mfg return to the USA. It's too late for this 61 year old guy, but there is plenty of time for the young men and women to be gainfully employed in factories. I have been reading about Spain in the 1500s. We are repeating their biggest mistakes by sending our work to outside sources, and by warring all the time. It's what ruined Spain, and it is ruining us.
If you feel so inclined, read up on it. It's history, and we are destined to repeat it, rather than learn by their mistakes.
How is it to late for someone in their 50's? Explain that one. Remember, lots of people may be reading your response.
As for bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US, fine, just be prepared to pay double the price for that iPad made in the US.
Because most people who do the hiring want you to be under thirty with twenty year of experience???????
That's no lie; it just screws all of us in our 50's, who are working two crap jobs to make up for the one where we were screwed after putting in 15 or 20 years of good service. The whole revival of things is going to come too late for us, and retirement (as our parents thought of it) is a lost dream. I'll work until I die, I'm sure.
Manufacturing is a volatile profession, it expands and contracts rapidly. From philosophical viewpoint, less jobs relying on manufacturing is a good thing. When I was a kid, fathers who were factory workers got laid off in droves. Now 35 years later, the modest middle-class white collar workers get laid off in far less numbers (unless you work for a poorly managed Co.)
Don't get me wrong, we should encourage Co's to keep a certain manufacturing infrastructure for national security.
But be realistic, the US job base is not broken - just evolving. It's called natural selection. People are going to need to try to evolve the chosen careers, less they become extinct.
You cannot exist on a service society alone. It's doomed to fail when noone chooses your for services. You need manufacturing and more would only help the U.S.
How long can an economy survive with mostly service jobs sitting in front of a computer and making nothing?
Most people who "sit in front of a computers" are the new "makers", blue collar people are often simply too limited to grasp this. Living in the "service sector" is simply another lifestyle choice. I engineer products, the guy next to me markets them, the guy next to him sells them, China puts them together. My Co still has manufacturing in the US. We no longer produce the $1 items here, but we still make the $100 items here as there is a skill set that can not be reproduced in China. Go to College, or at least get a new proficiency for advanced product assembly. There will still be Auto/Defense/Aerospace jobs for the people that want them, but you will have to relocate and let go of your Union dreams.
The problem I see is, the white collar tech jobs of today's middle class are also going overseas. It's not just the manufacturing plants that are leaving - we are also losing the high paying jobs such as software developers. Just like with manufacturing, there are highly skilled workers in other countries that are willing to work harder than most Americans and work for a fraction of what Americans will accept.
Another problem is, these jobs are even easier to move overseas than traditional manufacturing plants because there is virtually no sunk cost to make companies hesitate (i.e.; they don't have to pay hundreds of millions for a factory in China to move programming over there).
We need to wake up in this country and start taking steps to protect US workers. We need to look at trade policies and make sure they are fair after accounting for labor and environmental conditions in both countries. I think we should also look at policies such as mandating a certain % of costs be incurred in the US if a company sells here.
Just telling an international company to "be nice" and take lower profits to help American workers is not a valid approach.
Yes and No. They are definitely moving a staggering number of software jobs to places like India. And in general, even when the companies want to come back to the US it becomes like putting the toothpaste back in the tube. Plus no executive will ever admit their decisions were wrong, they'll just dump more money & resources into the farce to come out looking like their decision was right. As far as the spike in Chinese Engineers, I am not worried in the short term, they only seem competent in "reverse engineering" or at best enacting the decisions of US based engineers in the corporation; the communist mindset left generations that can not think for themselves. That being said the newest generation in China is getting up to speed, and in another 20 years we may get caught sleeping at the wheel. Hopefully I'll be retired by then...
Once again, countries that export raw materials and import finished goods are called colonies!
Pronounced "Coronies"!
We graduate one million people with university degrees each year in the U.S. but do not have one million new jobs that require a university degree. We might create one million jobs in a year, but they are lower paying, less stable jobs with no benefits.
There is no such thing as a job that cannot be outsourced. OTOH, there is a definite limitation on the quality of outsourced work.
Does the US need manufacturing? Sure. The same way that we need farming. But to expect a job for life and the continued Union benefits that have destroyed so many US economic sectors is absurd. As is CEOs that make tens of millions while laying off.
As usual, the truth of what's needed is somewhere in the middle.
From a economic viewpoint, manufacturing jobs are a good thing. Manufacturing creates wealth and a large middle class is what drives a prosperous economy. Ask China.
And for the post above, there are jobs out there that cannot be outsourced. Try doctors, teachers, local police, plumbers, auto machanics....... what they going to do? Send these jobs to india?
Has anyone ever told you that your an arrogant j*ck*ss?
WalkWithMeInHell
Hmmm, there are 1.6 million engineers in the US, which is less than 1% of the work force. If we are a predominantly service economy, get use to double digit unemployment as the new norm. The only engineers with job security are the ones in manufacturing facilities. Most engineers that work for design firms are basically temporary hands. Once the projects end and there are no more billable hours, you are gone.
A country that cannot feed, clothe, house and keep itself cool/warm is useless. If you have to resort to threatening other people with military force or economic/financial threats to keep those things flowing, you are going to be the next Ancient Rome.
That is what they did right before the end and the Goths came along to finish the job that the Romans started doing to themselves.
I concur, Larry. The cycle has occurred several times, (well documented). As the US relies on external sources, the populist priorities are such that while being distracted/pacified with reality shows and sport events, the proverbial barbarians are at the gates of the city.
The manufacturing fix is simple to explain, unfair tariffs, unfair currency manipulation, trade agreements that disrespect worker rights, environmental laws and safety regulations. Throw in our Federal reserve printing money faster than a speeding bullet and you have a race to the bottom for American manufacturing and the American worker in general.
What's not so simple is to change it. Politically the general public would have to understand the issues and stop supporting corrupt government practices that favor the one tenth of one percent.
American reading and comprehension skills are at there lowest point in history because of that I have little hope of effective change.
And unfortunately, neither party seems willing to take real steps to protect American workers.
By the way, I'm not pro-union. I think in today's America, unions do more harm than good. But, I am pro-American, and I do not think today's workers have a level playing field, and if steps are not taken, we are going to continue to see our lifestyles decline.
The history of non-public unions has been twisted by business interests so much that the general public believes there is a communist and gangster behind each one. Oddly enough, public unions thrive in a closed looped system of enrichment and fleece the public so much that it boggles the taxpayers wallet to the point of insolvency.
Once again an ignorant undereducated public continues to believe in political fairy tales and lottery winnings to hang its tattered hat on.
dpaul,
Just curious, was your post aimed at mine? If so, for the record, I do not think there are communists or gangsters behind unions. My problem with unions in today's America are twofold.
First, I believe in flat organizations and reducing communication layers. In cases where groups such as unions get between management and workers I think it significantly increases the chances of communication errors and generally makes for a more hostile communication approach. I realize in theory unions are just a group of workers that banded together (which I've done in the past), but I believe the formalized union approach changes the relationship and it becomes more antagonistic than cooperative.
Second, ultimately I think unions cause more harm than good for today's workers by putting unrealistic demands on companies - which eventually results in lost jobs for union workers. So, they may get better pay and better benefits today, but in 10 or 20 years those jobs will be overseas.
I do think before the first half of last century unions were needed in the US, but I think we are passed those days. We now have laws on the books that protect workers against most of the abuses corporations did at the start of the industrial revolution. I sincerely thank those early union workers for what they did for all of us, but I think their time is past.
Ron-18611300
I did reply to your post. The non-public union issue is a complicated one, probably beyond the scope that these limited posts allow. I agree that some union activities caused more harm that good but in general, poor management and poor managers caused a whole lot more harm than good for American businesses.
I respectively disagree that the time for worker unions is past. If there was ever a time for unions and thus workers, to counter the power of the one tenth of one percent it is now!
dpaul,
Thanks for the civil reply - it's nice to see on these boards.
I do agree that poor management is mostly to blame for hard times at companies - even if they received union (or other) pressure to make a bad business decision, it was still their decision to make. I have also heard some encouraging comments from some union leadership in recent years - things such as "we now realize for the workers to succeed, the company also has to succeed". If it can become a cooperative working relationship then I think unions are fine...I'm just skeptical about that possibility.
By the way, in the 90's the engineers at the software company I worked at felt they were being underpaid. So, they got together, did research on market rates in and around where the company was located, and selected a representative to take their research to upper management and see if they could get some changes. Their stated goal was to keep the company together and get reasonable pay for everyone. The discussions went very well and in the end everyone seemed happy (we had about 80% retention over 7 years). This was not a unionized company, but if unions could act in the same civil, productive manner our developers did, then I can see them helping the job situation.
Ron-1861300
It's great to hear where workers got together, were allowed to approach management without retaliation and arrive at a reasonable outcome for all parties, including investors. That's the way it is supposed to happen where everybody wins, sadly today it rarely happens that way.
Too many times, on any complaint I have heard this saying from my managers and management either to myself or those that I have represented. If you don't like it here there are one thousand other people waiting and wanting your job - shut up and get back to work!
DPaul - don't forget the illegal theft of Intellectual Property!
Mark from Bridgeport
I am not exactly sure what you mean by your comment but let me state this.
The Congress shall have Power … To promote the Progress of Science
and useful Arts, by securing for limited Tımes to Authors and Inventors
the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries
United States Constitution, Article I, Section 8
Current copyright law is a prime example of corporate influence that perverts the original intent of the law. Depending on the type of work the default length of copyright is the life of the author plus either 50 or 70 years. In the case of corporations, which owns most of the copyright material the time limitations are nearly endless.
This endless copyright time limit effectively shields individuals and corporations from any competitive pressures and is stagnating new creations. The current copyright law is anti-competitive, anti-American and perversely anti-social.
DPaul- I'm talking about the illegal duplication of American goods by China. It doesn't matter if it's software or machine tools, for years the Chinese have been pirating US goods.
Mark from Bridgeport
Most of duplication of patented goods and some copyright material are actually deals that American company's make in agreement to do business in China. Despite this due to tariff advantages, low labor costs, lack or missing environmental rules, no safety regulations, minimal permitting regulations and many other "advantages" foreign firms continue to invest and submit to these requirements.
Of course, your right to a point, Chinese State firms then take the patented process or whatever and then compete against the firm that gave away the patent for the privilege of doing business there.
Thanks, but IMO you have that the other way around.
There are tens of thousands of instances of IP piracy in China, from illegal downloads and pirated DVDs to buying an item, taking it apart and producing them locally without any payment whatsoever.
Various US & UK manufacturers have complained about this for years to no avail.
Read this: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/23/us-china-geithner-idUSTRE78M15G20110923 & http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/8936685/Sir-James-Dyson-attacks-China-over-designs-theft.html
or just Google for "china intellectual property theft"...
I read these replies with dismay. The reality is that NO ONE represents the workers here OR overseas anymore. THAT IS THE DISCONNECT.
You cannot run an entire society solely on the pursuit of profit. The main issue is that HOW you make a profit matters. Making profits using extractive methods will eventually destroy your economic base. Then, you simply have no economy at all. History is full of civilizations that used up its resources faster than they could replace them. They treated the very people who were the foundation of their societies poorly until they rebeled and war came making life miserable for everyone.
It amazes me in this day and Age of Information that so little knowledge and wisdom presides in our 21st century society.
Mark from Bridgeport
I disagree; the copyright law and patent law are ridiculously extreme and today panders to pure greed and not real market realities. To quote the copyright law The Congress shall have Power … To promote the Progress of Science
and useful Arts, by securing for limited Tımes to Authors and Inventors
the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries
United States Constitution, Article I, Section 8
I could make the argument that the entire copyright and patent law should be scrapped and it probably should be considering time to market, production and distribution realities bringing your product or writing and discoveries to the masses. When this law was written this country had for fifty years not respected any patent or copyright, which outraged England and ultimately destroyed its monopoly producing cloth. Roads were poor, travel times long, production distribution systems poor or completely missing; at the time seventeen years seemed reasonable to protect the inventors profit rights.
I firmly believe that the current copyright and patent law does nothing to promote new creations but to limit new and greater creations at the expense of the general public that pays for the system that currently supports a legal system that crushes the common citizen to the determent of the general good.
Larry 1274601
Couldn't agree with you more. We collectively elect these folks to represent us and make our laws and look in the mirror at the enemy. He is us.
I'm sorry, but you don't have a clue.
It's simple to explain, but none of your factors has much to do with it. Plain and simple, capital is mobile now, and it will move to where it can be combined with cheap labor, which is not here. That's all that's going on.
And this is gonna be all his fault too. Profits over people right? I would like a clear list of products made in America. And a list of companies who ship jobs overseas. I don't want to support them, I want to support my country.
why would you bring back manufacturing when you can get the work done with slave labor. Are we not just as wrong today with supporting companies that utilize this type of labor as we were back in the 1800's? Just because another countries laws allow us to do something, doesn't mean that we should. Are we not just creating another group of people who will resent us and eventually throw off their chains?
Manufacturing will not come back in a major way unless we make some radical shifts in our trade policies. I am a right winger, and it pains me to say this, but I think the only way to make a signficant improvement is to deal very toughly with our trading partners, and start putting tariffs back on imports of many products. Force these companies to make their stuff here, or have a 50-100% tariff on the imports. I don't think cutting taxes or giving iother types of incentives to companies will do it. And we have a big enough market here with buying power that I think this could work; companies will want to sell here. We can't compete with slave wage labor and never will be able to. If they retaliate and put tariffs on our exports to them it really won't matter, because our major exports to most of these slave labor countries are food related, and they need it anyhow. Sc**w them.
If the cost of energy gets high enough, globalization will stall. We have enough raw materials here to make most anything. That said, I agree with your sentiments above. It's time we gave our own workforce some consideration but in concert with that, it's time our workforce stopped abusing their union power.
there are hardly any unions anymore. companies are posting record profits, the people at the very top get huge pay and bonuses and the majority of the workers who made the company profitable are screwed over with layoffs, lowered pay and cuts in benefits. "our workforce is not abusing their union power" the 1% is abusing American workers and the unions are the only thing stopping the complete destruction of the middle class! that is why gop is working so hard to destroy them! since gop is owned by corporations their job is to push our pay and benefits down. workers need to unite and stop our politicians from destroying our country and way of life. they could make it unprofitable for corporations to offshore our jobs and our people would hae jobs again but they don't because they don't give a crap about us, only the rich!
The loss of manufacturing jobs wouldn't sting so much if the construction industry had not gone to hell at the same time. Not everyone is cut out for an intellectual career. We need work for people that work with their hands too.
Here in Vegas the residential construction market was IN hell even when it was booming.
All the trades were dominated by illegal aliens,hence concrete finishers,framers,roofers,etc wages were all in the $10.00 to $12.00 an hour range.
You need to provide a service or make a product that some one will pay for. Econ 101
Unfortunately there is less and less that the people in this country can afford to pay for due to the fact that they are out of work. It's a cycle that feeds on itself.
I agree. We didn't get into this mess overnight and we won't get out of it overnight either, but until the idiots in DC on both sides of the aisle start getting serious about making policy changes that can really have an impact, we won't see significant movements in employment and household income. I also agree with your union comment - that has to be managed carefully to keep overall costs in check. But I am sick of all the talk in DC and no action. I am a die hard conservative Republican but I am pi**ed off at them and Obama.
<mrwiz> an Intellectual career...?? Ha. Gimme a break. I see more stupid people doing white collar things than I have ever witnessed in a manufacturing plant!
Jobs will continue to return to our shores as costs rise overseas. Additionally, the crop of clueless MBAs who had no idea how good American manufacturing really is are learning their lessons with poor foreign quality and unanticipated expenses.
We need jobs for "blue collar" workers. Not everyone is cut out for high tech jobs, not everyone has the means to obtain a college degree. IF everyone had a college degree, those who weren't near the top of their class would have wasted the money and time spent to get theirs anyway. Manufacturing will never be what it was. The right to bargain is being stripped from our workforce. This may lead to more jobs, but the jobs will never provide the kind of lifestyle our country saw in the past. The push to compete in a "Global economy" by its nature requires a huge step backward in our standard of living, unless we can find a way to bring the rest of the world up to our level. Greed, er... profitability will always come first, it is the nature of Capitalism. Companies that don't take advantage of every opportunity to keep costs down don't survive. If we were as altruistic as we like to believe we are, we would not accept low prices derived from slave labor, we would not allow our manufacturers to exploit uneducated, desperate souls who must work or literally die trying. It is a sick world, we demand low prices and turn a blind eye when it comes to understanding how the low price was achieved. We can't have it both ways. Either we fall to their level and the wealthy continue to enjoy low prices, or we wake up and realize that we must work to raise the standard of living everywhere to the level we'd like to enjoy here. Boycott products with low prices when we know the prices were achieved by exploitation of a desperate population. It is the right thing to do.
Sighber - I agree with most of your post, and you are absolutely correct about us as Americans demanding low cost products but then turning a blind eye on where it came from and how it was made. Walmart, Sams Club, Costco, etc etc exist today because they buy container ship loads of cheap crap from China. Shame on us as a country the last 40 years or so to let this happen. Our leaders took their eyes off the ball and never really had a longer term strategy on what to do to ensure that we keep a good solid manufacturing base here.
We consumers also took our eyes off the ball. Just because someone makes a product....does not mean we have to purchase it.
Over 19 million manufacturing jobs in the early 70's- under a republican president, almost 14 million in 2007, also under a republican president. Then, the democrats take control and the country goes to sh*t. 330,000 manufacturing jobs are created in two damn years and they think that fool is praise-worthy?
That's an over simplification of what happened and it completely misses the problems. This is not simply right and left problem. These problems were created by both sides in different ways and at different times. All you've done is scratched at the surface and came up with an erroneous conclusion. But hey, vote for the Rs next time around. Just be sure to pressure them to come up with some real solutions and not just pay them lip service.
Election year garbage. Obama had 3 years to do something, but he waited to blow his wad right now for his campaign, at our expense.
His state of the union address sounded like a Hitler tape.
kansasfsdafsdafsadt How many years has the so called "job creators--1%" had tax breaks(Bush years and now w/ president Obama)? Where are the jobs?
Kansas I guess you've been in a comma the past 20 years or more. That is the problem. When we headed down the path of a massive outsourcing hysteria, no one was paying attention. As stated earlier, both parties were involved. In the 80s GATT picked up steam and there were massive tariff reductions then. Finally, it started to evolve into the WTO in 1986. Presidents from both side of the aisle were or had reps at the table. Clinton just picked up the ball from daddy Bush and finalized our WTO agreement, signed 4 new freetrade agreements and the topper was making China a preferred trading partner via legislation. Bush Jr. came along and finished where Clinton left off by continuing to send envoys to the WTO to push for China to became a member, and then he signed another 4 new freetrade agreements. Between Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II tariffs, a major source of revenues for the US coffers, we reduced to almost nothing. I think about 2% now while China's tariffs on our goods can range up to 25%. Where was everyone who is blaming this kid (Obama) now for something that has been years in the making. I am an independent. Obama has been the only leader to address this problem and fined China under anti-dumping provisions of the WTO. Those D's and R's are just distractions while they continue to try and pull the wool over our eyes.
Tax breaks to bring jobs back? I'm confused. I thought the reason our economy is doing so poorly is that taxes aren't high enough. I thought the answer to our problems was higher taxation. Are you telling me that the rhetoric on taxes needing to be higher to improve our economy was just bluster and class warfare?
You are competing against 6 billion other people.
Even if you are the smartest 1%, that means there are 60,000,000 smarter people in the world.
We all know that 1 good worker outproduces 2 or 3 bad employees, do the math.
Someone will do your job cheaper. Work smarter not harder.
Harry
Bingo and that 6 billion are also potential customers, which is a number better than the measly 300 million here. People talk about slave wages, taxes, over burdening regs. The new consumer cultures being developed in these Asian countries are one of their most attractive features.
Hold your nose and swallow! What is this government going to do? Reverse Globalization? Renege on their Free Trade Agreements? Give control of the government and its policies back to the people? Forget it! They employ the best propagandists in the World now that the USSR is defunct.
You want the economy back to where you believe is normal? Try a Ron Paul!
If I was President and voting time getting close id be on the job touting to...since I hadnt touted any in last 3 years.
Yes, it is an election yr so we can expect the media to come up with stories about how Obama is going to give us prosperity, success and jobs. It is all just around the corner if we keep supporting Obama.....This now is Obamas lie....We would have been much better off with anyone else in that office. Obama has only delayed the recovery.....He has no solutions...other than socialism and killing free enterprise.
JA are you sure about that. I use to think the samething until I read that most European countries who criticized Obama for actions he took to address the recession are having little growth and rising unemployment. The average growth for all the countries' GDP is .6% and unemployment is 16%. What each of those countries did was take conservative austerity measures (basically what the GOP proposed, drastic cuts and some major reductions in taxes). Now, they are backtracking and looking into implementing stimulus plans. Some of the countries actually have negative growth in the GDPs (double dip recessions) and up to 25% unemployment. Now, the biggest problem is their mistake is having a negative impact on our economy and slowing us down as the Eurozone are our greatest trading partners. From what I am hearing from the GOP candidates during the debates, they would have taken the same actions as Europe and we would be in a much deeper hole.
Pamela....the only thing that grew from the stimulus was government....and even that was temporary. Some car companies were bailed out and many banks and investment houses....If the banks and investment companies had gone broke, they would have been replaced with much more reasonable ones...that didnt give their failed leadership millions in bonuses. The car companies ended up with government and union ownership...and dont forget that the administration cooperated in trying to close up 2000 car dealerships....Much of the money was given to states and while state government income was declining they were hiring more and more state employees....who recently had to be fired. The states also killed many programs that have been in place for decades because of this fiasco and huge debt....The stimulus did nothing for them other than to falsely lead to the overgrowth of state employees....and most are now gone.....Almost nothing was invested in the free enterprise system and no permanent jobs happened because of the stimulus. That equals nothing of value or permanent for our future.....A trillion dollars of our money was just wasted and given away and it is now gone along with the jobs that money was supposed to be buying.....I dont see how the stimulus could have been handled more stupidly than it was....
Sorry, I think I am wrong about that....I guess Obama could have given much more to Solyndra.....
Too little, too late? Any progress is progress. And yes, the tax code as well as regulations, not just Federally, but locally at the state level is in dire need of change. Here in CA the regulations not only impede, but strangle business. That's why so many are leaving. I understand that we need some kind of environmental, health, worker safety regulations (unlike China which has none) but to make it impossible for business to do business because of those regulations is counter productive.
California only needs to slice Caltrans in half and the problem there is fixed. 59% of Caltrans is wasted administrative folks that provide almost zero to improving or maintaining CA roads. All of this should be done with private A&E's under bonded contracts to avoid what is costing CA Billions in waste not to speak of hundreds of Billions in future pensions & health care.
Kate you can google and do a little research to verify what I am saying about Ireland. Ireland had low taxes and regs. Companies were flocking to Ireland in the late 80s and early 90s. However, once China opened their doors, they lost those jobs to China and other developing Asian nations also. As Harry pointed out above, we are competing with 6 billion Asians as workers, and as I pointed out, who are also potential customers. Was looking at CNBC a couple of weeks ago, and the CEO of Xerox sort of verified my assumptions by confessing that they moved their operations to be closer to their largest client base.
obama must be out campaigning again, stocks down, GDP is dismal and the price for Gold and Oil up! Who (in the picture) is the anorexic narcissistic looking individual waring a white shirt and tie in a factory? Looks more like a plantation owner to me.
The Republican Business dream, profits up and middle class jobs down...
The 99% - Keep em Poor, Keep em Hungry, Keep em Homeless, Keep em Sacred, Keep em Uneducated and Keep em from Voting election time....
Come on Roc you can do better then that!!!! If you're againist the President be againist his policies, but don't try to make a racist comment like that. Now I can agree with one thing you said. The price of gold and oil are up for one major reason. the FED!!! They're trying to get Europe up and going again bylowering the standards on how much stronger the dollar was going. With that in mind you'll see this fluctuation in gold and oil spike up. The dismal GDP is not exactly accurate, GDP went from 0.4% in the first to 2.8% in the fourth. So while that's not robust it's still not terrible sir. Stocks are just doing what they supposed to do start taking a few dollars off the table so they can go shopping this weekend hahahahaha!!! Watch Monday morning you're going to see a pop so I'm not worried about that. Finally go www.NBR.com and see what the CEO of Caterpillar said about the economy and you might change your view on what the economy will be doing over the next 3 months-5 years.