Actually, it's gotten to the point you can live a better life style on governemnt benefits. You eat better and live better than people who are working, believe me, I see it at the grocery store every day.

People like you make me sick. I tell you what, since you seem to believe your own nastiness, why don't you permanently trade places with someone on government benefits. I see 'it' at the grocery store as well and my heart aches for them. There is no work.

ginny, maybe the nes you see in your part of the country, and yes, I feel sorry for some. But when I see alot eating steaks and feeding their dogs meat because it's on food stamps, while we barely get by and work our butts off, that's what pisses me off. So don't judge me when you don't see what I do.

Total Lie

Can't find Skilled workers? this is a bold faced lie! why? Before 2001, a corporation use to have huge and vast Training departments to train the person off the street to the job that they required someone to work at. It seems that beginning in 2001 businesses became greedy and decided to not train but to expect every citizen to have a Doctors degree in Business.

Companies, Corporations, Big Wig Businesses, are not hiring for one and only one reason: To make sure that President Obama is a one term president. Big Wig Businesses are willing to destroy the United States Economy, they are willing to make tens of millions of citizens homeless, all in the name of making sure Obama is a one term president.

I suspect that if Obama looses in 2012 suddenly there will be a huge hiring spree and suddenly banks will release billions of dollars for loans etc.

I think this would make a very good story and it could completely defeat the efforts of the Teabaggers and Republican't party in 2012 if only MSNBC would report on it.

And thats my Opinion

it seems okay for the business sector to pay themselves millions in bonus's while they find ways to screw their workers, members of our government have padded their pockets, cities are run like an endless cookie jar, yet it is the poor on food stamps are at fault.

blows my mind.

Since 2008,

Every single company in America has used this recession as an excuse to not pay anyone what their intellectual or manual labor is worth.

Insurance companies to doctors and nurses, Shipping companies and Middle manTtruck Brokers to US trucking companies small and big, utilities and telecomunications to all the subcontractors they use, etc, etc.

The list of every industry, sector, and contract work is 400 pages long and boring.

The exception to this rule however has been the CEOS, COOS, and high ranking management members of the same companies.

Cheap wages, no benefits, and no bonuses have been the drumbeat of the last three years when dealing with the middle salaried office worker, or production workers.

In this labor sectors of ANY industry, a worker cannot even get a meager $ 0.25 C/Hr raise, while their piers in management and executive level in the same company enjoy raises, bonuses, and perks that companies can afford only for them ( The Elite ).

So, Just wait and see what will happen if Romney or Gingrich are elected to office next year.

If you think our current situation is tough right now, wait for the " Austerity " measures imposed on the working class under a Republican Administration.

Remember, the Wall Street-tization ( Artificial high and lows) on products we must have such as Energy and Food will Skyrocket and lower ( Never bottom ) with the stroke of a key at the speculators desks.

Skyrocketed High natural gas prices on winter, Sky rocketed prices of electric power in the summer, coupled with skyrocketed prices for gasoline and Petrol as well as food.

M and A ( Mergers and acquisitions ) the area of expertise for Mr Romney huh?

Ask any of the workers of the companies that underwent M and A's if they have a job today on those companies.

Better yet, are those companies still in Business today?

Those companies were Bankrupted in purpose, to dismantle them and strip away of whatever worth was left on them, that's how these rapacious capitalist sharks made their money, with complete disregard for the families economies they destroyed in the process.

Black Rock is a prime example for M and A's.

Gingrich for that matter, is even worst than Romney because he is a pathological liar.

The republicans of today do not, and I repeat, do not even come close to the caliber of a Republican President like Ronald Reagan.

Today's Republicans are nothing but opportunistic, and parasitic ( Financial) Rats, who live of the sweat of the working class, simple as that.

They had it so good for so long, that they will not let go of that bone like a pit bull!

That is why they can afford College for their spoiled children, but you don't have the income to send yours to College, even if you and your spouse work 2-3 jobs.

Therefore, the American dream is dead!

Why you might ask?

Because this collusion between Capitalists ( Low wages ) and Corrupt Government ( higher taxes on the middle working class ) perpetuates the never ending cycle of Financial Slavery for the middle class ( The 40-75K income braket ), while anyone above the 1/2 Mill mark is untouched.

It is a culture of doing things in a corrupt way, were only the " Chosen Few " benefit from the system.

Now more than ever, it has become crystal clear how important for Wall Street is the Presidency of the United states, where having a person who shares their " Views and concerns " for the future, their future that is, is of the out-most importance, not the one for the American people.

classified wanted;

Master degree, under 30 years old , minimum 10 years experience, apply McDonald's, starting pay 7.50 per hour.

(this is the real reason)

@ skiddy, I was laid off in 2009 and I had to apply for UI, which I eventually got for roughly 4 mths... Now, I was taking home 2500 every two weeks before I got laid off and the UI check was just over 300 after taxes... So, unless you are from planet MORON.... You have no clue and you are as out of touch as our millionaire politicians... With two kids and a mortgage plus utilities... What STEAK could I afford. It's idiots like you spew garbage out the hole in your face and have no clue what reality is... Luckily, I'm from a 2 income home where my wife makes just as much as I do... Otherwise, I would have been on the street. So, count your blessing instead of making comments about things you are ignorant of...

Siddy, why do I have a hard time believing your story?

I do all the shopping now and I don't "see it all the time". The number of people using food stamps is very low compared to the number of shoppers and those that do use food stamps aren't buying "a lot of meat". And how would you know they feed their dogs meat unless of course they're your neighbors or relatives?

I just don't think you're telling the whole story.

I was laid off three years ago. The people that didn't get laid off had very little experiance compared to what I had. What I did I spent more than forty years learning (clue) and was paid better than average (clue). At one time what I and others did for a living was considered highly skilled labor, now you're considered a piece of meat that they don't want to pay and honest wage for. Used to be you could walk into a company knowing nothing, get hired, and they would spend a month or so laying a foundation that you continued to build on and you could build a fairly nice life, now, like I said, you're just a piece of meat.

You are correct. But one thing no one discusses. Money is only a psychological instrument. If people would devalue it and stop excepting it at face value, millionaires would become broke.

But back to what you were saying, they are doing everything possible to ruin his presidency. Falsely raising gas prices for NO reason. They're jacking up food price for NO reason. They won't pay ISHT to anyone who applies. For an example of this go Walmart or Target. They raise prices almost weekly but wages don't budge. The excuse will be the usual "our costs, our costs" BS. But mysteriously the executives wage will go up.

The way around some things: I buy NOTHING from American companies like Walmart. Walk to avoid buying gasoline. And will quit a job when they ask me to do more than they're willing to pay for. I give them the same notice they'd give me if they were firing me.

saxon,
If I could get a job like that, I'd take it right now. But it's like my Bachelor's in aerospace engineering makes me unqualified for "lowly" jobs or something. I was reduced to applying at grocery stores, warehouses, or for transportation jobs; anything to work. And I have yet to receive any responses. This is part of the reason I said "screw it, I'm joining the military while I'm still young enough."

@ Joe

"Obama is doing NOTHING to change that."

Just what can Obama do with the Republicans in congress opposing everything he tries to do. The president can do very little without congress so blaming Obama for the piss poor actions of congress is lame. The president can veto bills he doesn't like but he cannot sign bills that have not been passed.

It would help if everybody would actually read the article and take in the stats and comments. This issue of the lack qualified candidates has been around for some time. I worked temps for about 20 years. I heard all that back and it is why temp agencies did some training on their own to ready candidates to be hired. BTW, I never had difficulty getting a job, but then I never went to an interview without being qualified. BTW, I worked in HR for a large pharmaceutical company. Way back when, they hired recent grads form college with just about any degree and then did a lot internal hiring. Back then margins allowed for that training, but over the years margins have shrunk and expenses have grown and thus a lot of in-house training perhaps has diminished. Additionally, the day that a college grad with any degree is looked upon favorably and automatically a shoe-in is OVER. It is high time kids focus on industries that need workers, and that pay enough to suit their future needs. This idea of graduating with a degree in women studies and expecting a good offer out of college, is utter nonsense. So can the fluff degree programs and let's instead graduate a lot more math and science workers.

Equally, putting all high school kids in the same programs is nonsense. Once upon a time students took shop, home economics, office skills, and yes college prep classes.

Here is something to chew on. How many qualified line cooks do you think every town has? So if you are a restaurant needing a head cook, line chef, GOOD LUCK finding anybody that has that experience. They do not exist. These culinary schools do graduate people all the time, but the graduates are NOT heading back to some small town to work. They gravitate to the big cities and that is where they stay. The reason being is that they barely get paid there, but in a smaller market the pay will be even less and their work experience a lot less interesting.

So it is true the match-ups are poor in this country.

When my husband got his job 10 years ago as president of a company, the company had been looking for well over a year. They had interviewed 200 people making a few offers that eventually were turned down due to location. The truth is, this company was smart to be picky because the location is tough and would not work for most people. So yet, the picking and choosing can be very slow even for those at the top.

It's a combination of many issues. People today go to college, study things you can't get a job in. back in the 80's the professors said you could manage a hospital with a degree in Public Admin or Poly Sci or English because College teaches you to think and that's the main thing. I think you need engineers running engineering forms, Computer scientists/engineers running computer firms, and right on down the line. Study Art history you better look forward to being a Museum Director cause a law firm or Pharmacuetical company may not feel experimental when they hire. How many Museums you think are out there anyway ? Then there are employers who won't spend a nickle training people. Same ones won't pay for health care or retirement but the boss will have a 8,000 ft home on a plantation with another vacation home in the mountains or one the beach. We definintely have a problem in this country. but the whiners and complainers are not alwasy the people who are right or even know what's going on.

I'm calling bull on ThaPyngwyn. I have a friend who just graduated with a bachelor's in aerospace engineering. He was hired immediately, and his employeer is having trouble filling positions because not enough people are graduating with that degree.

Meanwhile, my friends who have recently graduated with Liberal Arts or English majors are still living at home with their parents and having a hard time finding decent employment.

In the 90s my son-in-law got a degree in microbiology but could not get a job so he took computer programing and got a job doing very well. Did the degree help? Yes it did because it showed the company that he was intelligent and able to learn. Also willing to work to improve. I suggest that people that have a degree in anything, school themselves in another skill like he did.

I think the major issue is the requirements for certain jobs, are just ridiculously out of touch with the actual job itself.

When employers want a bachelor degree (in anything, doesnt matter what)...just to say that the employee they are hiring is "educated" (again, in anything it doesnt matter) for a job that doesnt require a bachelor degree, but rather simply requires a little bit of "on the job training" for the specific work that company does...without offering wages that match what a bacherlor degree person should earn...

THATS where the problems lie.

The reality is, most jobs could be done with some on the job training.

Employers have gotten lazy, selfish and greedy...all the while, they and the 1% (and the crazies who come on here defending the 1% as the only people creating jobs *rolls eyes)...are calling us, the workers - willing to learn any job - the lazy ones.

The middle class, can not be full of people with really expensive majors and degrees...the work that employs them, cant afford to match what their debt coming out of college requires.

Yes, part of the middle class NEEDS highly educated workers...but just as important are highly skilled labor workers, and there are few college teaching labor skills these days...and none at a reasonable cost to the employee.

My husband has been looking for work for 3 months. People won't hire him because they see is old pay rate and assume that's the pay he's looking for. He can't stress enough to them that he doesn't care what the pay is he just needs a job that draws a paycheck (he would not have applied for the job if he didn't NEED it).

They have him in for the interview process knowing his previous position then penalize him at the end for being over qualified. Uggggg

Another problem may also be that those of us who are educated realized that we could have a higher quality of life overseas. I moved to Prague and then Hungary because there were not only jobs available, but my quality of life is so much better. I don't need to drive anywhere, there are hardly any homeless people (especially compared to Florida), the crime rates are extremely low, and I've never had to pay a dime for heath care. I also get six weeks of vacation every year (I got five days in the US- and using them was frowned upon).

In this increasingly globalized world, companies and government must compete on a global scale. If conditions in the US continue to deteriorate, those of us with more education and resources will move abroad.

I love all of the blame games here...."it's Obama's fault; the employers are unreasonable; anybody can do the work if they just had a little OJT".....BS!

The fault lies solely with people's lack of ambition and persistence required to get qualified. I live in a city with an engineering/science university; the graduates are in great demand, and the average starting salary exceeds $60,000. I also have a daughter who is a ceritified medical technician; she changes jobs every few years simply because she can...she has a needed skill to offer.

The days of big pay for un and semi skilled work are gone; get over it.

We have created our own misery.

The most advanced society in history and we have systematically neglected our most vital social resource.

Education.

Our society is becoming more and more illiterate. Most Americans can only read at an 8th grade level. Our high school graduates, all 70% of them, rank in the lower third of all OECD countries in math, science and reading. Our children, and many adults, don't know how to use--there, their or they're--correctly in a sentence. Ask most American's to calculate 40% of 660 in their head and they start to hyperventilate. These are basic skills that used to be taken for granted. We keep pandering to this false belief that we are somehow going to continue our standard of living with R&D and technology development. How?

As a society, as much as it may pain us to admit, not everyone has the capability to earn a degree of significance. This is either because of economic constraints, intellectual restrictions or just by choice. Not everyone can work in the health-care field. Not everyone can work in the computer/electronics field. Not everyone can work in advanced technology fields.

We once had a balance of service sector and manufacturing sector careers in this country. We no longer have that luxury. Our economy was once built around a 53% domestic exportable manufacturing industry sector, and then everything else. Today manufacturing is 9% of our economy. Technology, innovation, robotics and other efficiencies have decreased the need. More importantly we have scared manufacturing from our shores. We are no longer competitive in this vital global sector. To think we're going to retrain nearly 25 million Americans into the service sector is nonsense.

For decades we have seen our once envied industries leave our shores for more friendly havens. Uncompetitive corporate taxes, unrestrained regulations, unfair trade agreements, destructive union intervention and lack of economic policy have created our current collapse. No economy is purely white collar. We need a strategic balance between service sectors and the manufacturing sectors. We need blue collar jobs for those who are incapable to advance in their career.

Manufacturing is critical. Domestic exportable manufacturing is needed to create the necessary commerce to restore our standard of living and to create new revenue to pay off our massive debt that decades of wasteful spending has created. We have to start building American made products to export and bring new money into our economy. You can't export road building, bridge building and social programs. Our textile, electronics, agricultural and general manufacturing industries have been decimated.

Our consumption economy, which is based on minimal resale profits, cannot provide us a prosperous lifestyle alone. America was once the hub of industry, today we are the largest debtor nation in history. We have enormous resources in oil, natural gas and coal we should be exploiting while renewable technology advances. Nuclear energy technology has advanced which can allow us the ability to provide more affordable energy for our personal and industrial needs. We are decades away from being a sustainable renewable energy nation.

We need an all-the-above economic plan today to allow us to be able to provide the vast diversity of our workforce with jobs. Education must be improved at the elementary level to allow us to be able to advance the higher education needs. China sends its children here to learn. Why can't we do the same?

With 13 million unemployed people seeking work in this country, it would seem like anyone who wants to hire someone would have little difficulty doing so.

Maybe because they pay them shyt salaries so the rich can continue getting richer. Microsucks pays Chinese laborers 2.99 an hour, and there is no way in hell anyone in American can live on 2.99 an hour. Maybe if employers paid better salaries and offered benefits to the people then you just might see a line outside of your business asap.

Until then, unemployment pays better than a minimum wage job does.

You do the math Einstein!

Personally speaking, for those who apply for a job here, I find that many under 30 workers do not have a good ethic. Maybe it is youth, maybe it is culture, maybe it is bad training, but those who we hire, who do actually stick around, are older. There are, of course, exceptions. But as a generalization, those who I've seen under 30 have far too lofty an impression of what work they should do for the money they get paid, and for their long term career goals based on where they are actually at and what they have accomplished.

Many older workers seem to have more obligations and needs, therefore possibly also making them more eager. Mortages need to be paid, kids raised, etc. Sometimes a spouse is out of work, so the employee is now the single earner in what was once a dual income home.

I'm not knocking the individual who is young, outgoing and dedicated. There have been a few I have seen. This is just a general comment from what I see with my business.

Joe, you said

"Obama will be a one term president, Magnum , because he serves the 1%."

Actually, if that were true, he would definitely be a two term president. They would make sure he got in.

They don't like him because he has tried hard to promote programs that help the rest of us. At every turn, the Republicans and the Tea Partiers have tried to stop him. They've hobbled him but they haven't stopped him.

He did not get through everything he wanted. But because of his tenaciousness and his willingness to compromise, he got some of what he wanted for us. My attitude was -- he is caving to them. But reality was that he was getting what he could, and things are a little better today for that.

If Obama is a one term president it will be BECAUSE OF the 1%. Specifically, because of the part of the 1% (not every rich person is greedy or bad) that wants a corporatist takeover of the United States. As you pointed out, they are practically there now.

But there is NO other candidate out there who will stand between us and the corporatist elite. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are the only other politicians I can think of who get coverage for speaking out about these things, and who might be able to do something. I think Barack Obama was telling the truth about 'change' -- and I think he was ambushed by the extent of the influence the corporatists already held when he got in the White House.

The descriptions in this article reflect precisely what they want. Low pay, no benefits, no social safety net, most people desperate so they can say "Be glad you have a job." And obscene profits for the few.

And if you're thinking that Ron Paul is the answer -- well, the Libertarian position of Small Government gives the corporatists just the opening they need to fill the vacuum.

As a second term president, Barack Obama may be able to keep them in check.

sds123,

It is assuredly not bull. I have read all the stories about the shortage of aerospace engineers, and more specifically the situation of too many aerospace engineers retiring and not enough coming in. I want to call bull on them.

Frankly, it ticks me off. I've applied to almost 30 different aerospace/engineering companies to well over 100 positions (as well as the U.S. government), not including my applications for non-aerospace related positions. I've had about three callbacks and no face-to-face interviews for any aero jobs. I've attended school-sponsored career fairs, went to seminars about effective job searching, had my resume adjusted several times, and even tried to leverage the few industry contacts I have, both in and out of aerospace engineering. Still nothing.

Yet I'm supposed to sit here, underemployed, and sympathize with businesses saying they can't find new aerospace engineers. I'm sick of these games. I want to work, and so far the military is the only employer who really seems interested.

CJ: your post has the word "victim" written all over it.

I suspect that if Obama looses in 2012 suddenly there will be a huge hiring spree and suddenly banks will release billions of dollars for loans etc.

Then why dont we get rid of Obama and get the economy back on track. Obama is a failed experiment.

The fault lies solely with people's lack of ambition and persistence required to get qualified.

Bull@!$%#. There is rampant age discrimination out there. Try getting a job at 60 after working your whole life. I have a friend who has been looking for 2 years - and she already got screwed out of her pension from one company she worked at for over 20 years when they bellied up. There is a huge problem with people who have a great work ethic and skill, but their age is a problem.

I retire in 14 days and now my employer needs to fill my post. My position is crucial to the companies business plan. The boss wants to hire a college grad but I told him it wasn't a necessary requirement. I suggested that we hire a veteran (I was Army), with a specialty (MOS) in electronics, and I would teach him all I know. Alas....he wasn't interested.

There are plenty of qualified people around, the problems are with the expectation of the companies. First you have the companies that need someone with very specialized experience that you can not get in college. They want to pay an entry level salary for someone when the experience required to have the skills they are asking for means the person should be making much more. They do not want to hire an entry level person that has the basic abilities and train them for the specialized knowledge they need. They want the experience but want to pay entry level salary. Next you have the companies that are trying to fill three different roles with only one hire. That want a mechanical engineer, finance person, and computer programmer all rolled into one. It is completely unrealistic to expect these disparate skills in a single individual. This is occurring because the companies are trying to save money. They want someone to wear three hats and work 60+ hours weeks so they can make a bigger profit. Then you have the companies that want to hire someone with a PhD and 20 years experience but want to pay them an entry level salary. They think that just because the job market is bad they can get away with being cheap and offering substandard salaries and benefits. Then when no one will take the job they blame it on a lack of qualified candidates instead of their own cheapness.

Much of this lack of qualified candidates nonsense is also so that the companies can push the government to increase the number of H1B visas. This allows the companies to hire from overseas and pay less money for the people. They can hire an engineer from India for far less than what an engineer in the US expects to get paid. They are supposed to pay these H1B visa holders the same salary they pay a US person, but in reality they do not. They set up their pay scales in such a way that the range of pay for any position is absurdly wide. Reality is that US workers are getting paid in the top 25% of the scale they set and the H1B visa holders are paid in the bottom 25%. I have seen a pay scale for a given level of engineer where the bottom of the scale was $60,000 and the top of the scale was $110,000 for the same job description and required years of experience/job level. This is not a range encompassing from junior engineer to senior engineer or for different fields of engineering, this broad range was for a mid level engineer one given engineering field. They paid the H1B holders from India in the $60-70,000 range and the US citizens in the $95-110,000 range.

There may be some shortages in some very specific areas, but on a whole, there is no wide spread shortage of qualified American workers to fill the jobs.

@spider-737231 -- When I was young - my best was never good enough. Now I am old - my best is too good. In the end - 'not good enough' and 'too good' are the exactly the same - unemployed. There appears to be a fine line between 'getting qualified' and 'being overqualified'.

For all the 'liberal arts are worthless' crowd - what sort of degree do you think most HR managers have? You need some 'liberal arts' background to get past the first hurdle. What you are capable of doing is irrelevant - what you can sell is what is important. Marketing is a 'liberal arts' activity. Part of that selling requires you to be 'liberal arts' to get in the door - 'business dumb' for the big boss so they can impress you - and 'Einstein' for the middle manager that you will actually work for.

Just having the 'right' degree in the 'right' field is no longer enough ...

Our schools keep adding requirements to teach sex education, gender studies, etc etc and the basics required to get and keep a job keep getting pushed further back. Many high schools no long teach shop, metalworking, etc because of liability and cost issues. These classes equipped many of my high school classmates to get and keep jobs. Colleges and universities offer degrees in things that don't pay the bills like classic literature, general studies, etc.

At some point the pendulum needs to swing back to preparing kids to earn a living, rather that to just be self-fulfilled wards of the state. There are still some excellent students coming out of our educational system, but the "average" student today, IMO, is far below what the average student was 20-40 years ago.

It is historical fact that unions brought forth a highly trained and motivated workforce in the late 19th century and throughout the 20th century. Unions train their workers in their union halls and job sights. These highly trained workers gave this country a preeminence in skilled labor of every doctrine. Then came the 'Reagan Years' with its anti-union push. The Republicans have reaped what they sewed for the entire country and skilled labor.

What it all boils down to is an excuse by corporations to explain why their cheap and overblown expectations aren't easily met by a public that like it or not does have high costs of living.

I was between jobs a few years ago, job boards full of openings wanting someone with a Bachelor's degree and paying $9-10/hr. A bachelor's degree on average costs $30,000 for many students, for half it costs double that. Their $9-10/hr won't even pay the interest charges on those loans.

Somehow we need to decouple health care costs and education costs from the public... Every other country we compete with does not place these burdens on its workforce and they are kicking our asses. It simply doesn't make sense to charge $30,000-100,000 for a Bachelor's degree that is worthless within 5 years - and often does nothing to prepare someone for their chosen field anyway. I see the problem largely coming from companies who want someone with extreme qualifications to already have every bit of experience and want to pay them starting level wages - until they are willing to put some skin in the game we are not going to see unemployment drop and we will not see any kind of true economic recovery for the bottom 99%.

CJ-1474104-

I completely disagree with your HSA comment. For people who do not visit the doctor often, I would much rather pay a lower cost for a high deducitble plan and put the difference into an HSA account. If I do end up going to the doctor, then I just pay for it out of the HSA account and you always have the option of investing your HSA if you build up a lot of money in the account.

The point is, for an adequate quality of life most workers are paying $25,000 a year just for housing and healthcare, unless a job pays far more than that, the worker is not going to contribute a cent to the local economy and not going to be able to afford further education. Other countries have realized that it simply doesn't make sense to saddle the public, especially the young with huge healthcare premiums and huge student loans. We are currently 40th place in the world in both measures and falling more every year.

@Cashonfire -- You really have no idea what a Health Savings Account is, do you? An HSA allows you to set up a regular deduction from your paycheck that is put into the HSA. You pay medical bills throughout the year from the HSA. At the end of the year, any money left in the HSA evaporates - you do not get it back. The HSA does not pay interest - it is not invested - it is an escrow account.

An HSA is not an investment or savings tool. It is simply a way for you to set aside money that you will spend during the year for medical expenses - because - you cannot budget your money.

HSAs are guarantees to health providers that they will get that money - whether you spend it or not ...

the boys said - "Equally, putting all high school kids in the same programs is nonsense. Once upon a time students took shop, home economics, office skills, and yes college prep classes."..... Bears repeating, as only 30% of Americans will actually get a 4 year degree. Many go, few graduate - give these high school kids a better option for career instruction. Partner with local community colleges, something. No reason why a high school senior, age 17, could not begin classwork for an LPN, for example. Our area has some trades high schools, but long waiting lists as well. Especially in poorer areas where the drop out rate is high - give these kids hope and job training that is meaningful.

My career was in IT. That's a fast changing field and we used to be trained as the changes came at us. Not anymore - now they hire cheap foreign labor rather than bring their experienced employees up to speed. They save twice, first on cheap labor and second on training.

Why is it so many of you have to bring everything back to a pro-union agenda? Yes, there are some skilled trades unions that do an excellent job of training people to be plumbers, pipefitters, electricians, etc. But I've also worked in many shops where people earned way more than they really deserved for screwing the same nut on the same bolt day in and day out, skills that required all of a couple minutes to teach. The bottom line is, there aren't many of those jobs left today, so the jobs that exist do require more skill and thinking than the mechanical jobs of a bygone era.

At one time, businesses donated their old tools and equipment to schools for work skill training. Nowadays those businesses sell their old equipment to India. It is expensive to set up a school shop - and - the insurance companies make it even more expensive.

The greatest life skill taught in school shop was how to work with equipment without maiming or killing yourself and without destroying the equipment. Eventually everyone learned how to actually produce something useful, too - although not everything produced was attractive.

Back in the day - business and education worked together to create a workforce with the necessary basic skills. Schools conducted factory tours, businessmen put on educational programs, there were intern programs for students, schools actually taught work skills. I believe education would still like to work with business but business is AWOL.

Had to laugh at Magnum Serpentine's comment about companies wanting everyone to have a doctorate. I have been out of work since my administrative position with state court was eliminated in their "budget cutting" due to the previous governor's poor management budget management. Now I see job ads asking for secretaries with at least five years' experience and a Bachelors Degree required but they are only paying $10.00 an hour.

And then there's the issue of companies not wanting to hire anyone over 45. I am highly skilled. Companies are impressed with my resume and I am constantly being invited for job interviews. But, once they discover I am not 28 years old, that's the end of their interest in me.

"... it’s difficult to make that transition if you’re now in your early 30s and you’ve been earning a good living in construction,” [David] said."

REALLY????? Isn't that against the law? Well, yeh. It is. And of course no company would ever admit to age discrimination but ... behind closed doors, they freely talk about their own prejudice against "older" workers, even though they, themselves may be well into their fifties and sixties. Age bigotry. Businesses want experienced, skilled workers, they just don't want to pay for the experience. They essentially want something for nothing. And shame on them.

Concerning a sort of business-education symbiosis, Business may be AWOL, but Education isn't doing much better. A combination of No Child Left Behind and teachers' unions has shifted the focus of "education" from learning things to passing tests. Testing well is not a skill essential to a vibrant economy.

I truly have minimal sympathy for Indian-nationals seeking their American dreams.

I friend of mine, now relocated to a different town, got a BA degree in America, and then, lacking a job, went on to get his MS degree. He was 25, I was 36. I also had a BA amnd MS (but in different subjects and career industries). I couldn't find a legitimate job that paid a livable wage for both my 10 years of experience and higher education (and proven work) credentials.

He -- the Indian national -- felt since he had a masters (at age 25 with no work experience), should be landing jobs earning over $80K. Meanwhile, I have had jobs with diminishing salaries since 2004 (first $41K, then $37K, then $33K, and now I'm freelance scraping to reach the $28 to 30K threshold).

You're not a national, don't even have legitimate visa status without corporate sponsorship, yet Indians think they have more right and access to American economic opportunities than native born taxpayers.

BTW, Remember the report back in OCtober that mentioned Indians easily travel to Guatemala (per lax visa requirements) and then illegally cross into the US via the border?

Not all illegals are Hispanics. The fact La Raza and others continually make the immigration problems all about Spanish-speaking dolts is RACIST of itself. ALL must follow our rules for legal status and citizenship.

Nerm_L-

I am very aware of what an HSA is, I believe you are confusing my post with an FSA. Please do some research so you do not continue to spread misinformation. .

I've been hearing this excuse from business since 9/11. Why 9/11? Because the, "we can't get skilled workers," is always followed by, "so let us hire more foreign labor." What they forget to add is, "because they will work for less, with no benefits, and we can fire them before the get seniority, and replace them with another cheap foreigner."

The other side to this is education. I've been ranting for more than 20 years about access to education. If we want skilled labor, we should be putting our own citizens through school. Instead, people like me (I was studying computer science, a very marketable skill) build up debt to get the degree, and then get cut off when you've reached a certain number of hours. That makes me a EBTD. I have enough credits to get a degree in "garbage pile," but not enough money to finish the real degree I wanted. Most people change their degrees several times. I did, as I watched skills I wanted to train for go over seas. That leads to credits you can't use, and eventual financial collegiate interruptus.

Don't talk to me about employers whining about not being able to fill their spots. They have to say that anyway, so they can hire foreign labor. That's the law.

This comment ( # 1.4, with 45 positive check marks ) was collapsed by the community " Invisible Force " of smear campaign and misinformation rampant through the internet.

So here we post it again.

It seems the republican campaign is having " some issues " in the brainwashing media department for this 2012 Presidential campaign.

Since 2008,

Every single company in America has used this recession as an excuse to not pay anyone what their intellectual or manual labor is worth.

Insurance companies to doctors and nurses, Shipping companies and Middle manTtruck Brokers to US trucking companies small and big, utilities and telecomunications to all the subcontractors they use, etc, etc.

The list of every industry, sector, and contract work is 400 pages long and boring.

The exception to this rule however has been the CEOS, COOS, and high ranking management members of the same companies.

Cheap wages, no benefits, and no bonuses have been the drumbeat of the last three years when dealing with the middle salaried office worker, or production workers.

In this labor sectors of ANY industry, a worker cannot even get a meager $ 0.25 C/Hr raise, while their piers in management and executive level in the same company enjoy raises, bonuses, and perks that companies can afford only for them ( The Elite ).

So, Just wait and see what will happen if Romney or Gingrich are elected to office next year.

If you think our current situation is tough right now, wait for the " Austerity " measures imposed on the working class under a Republican Administration.

Remember, the Wall Street-tization ( Artificial high and lows) on products we must have such as Energy and Food will Skyrocket and lower ( Never bottom ) with the stroke of a key at the speculators desks.

Skyrocketed High natural gas prices on winter, Sky rocketed prices of electric power in the summer, coupled with skyrocketed prices for gasoline and Petrol as well as food.

M and A ( Mergers and acquisitions ) the area of expertise for Mr Romney huh?

Ask any of the workers of the companies that underwent M and A's if they have a job today on those companies.

Better yet, are those companies still in Business today?

Those companies were Bankrupted in purpose, to dismantle them and strip away of whatever worth was left on them, that's how these rapacious capitalist sharks made their money, with complete disregard for the families economies they destroyed in the process.

Black Rock is a prime example for M and A's.

Gingrich for that matter, is even worst than Romney because he is a pathological liar.

The republicans of today do not, and I repeat, do not even come close to the caliber of a Republican President like Ronald Reagan.

Today's Republicans are nothing but opportunistic, and parasitic ( Financial and political) Rats, who live of the sweat of the working class, simple as that.

They had it so good for so long, that they will not let go of that bone like a pit bull!

That is why they can afford College for their spoiled children, but you don't have the income to send yours to College, even if you and your spouse work 2-3 jobs.

Therefore, the American dream is dead!

Why you might ask?

Because this collusion between Capitalists ( Low wages ) and Corrupt Government ( higher taxes on the middle working class ) perpetuates the never ending cycle of Financial Slavery for the middle class ( The 40-75K income braket ), while anyone above the 1/2 Mill mark is untouched.

Updated:

Has anyone wondered why even a combined income of$ 60,000.00/ yr is becoming basic middle class salary for a family of four?

With everything skyrocketing in price around us, 60k is the new/old 30K middle class salary.

It is a culture of doing things in a corrupt way, were only the " Chosen Few " benefit from the system.

Now more than ever, it has become crystal clear how important for Wall Street is the Presidency of the United states, where having a person who shares their " Views and concerns " for the future, their future that is, is of the out-most importance, not the future of the American people.

WARNING: IGNORE NERML's post about HSAs. IT IS WRONG!!!

NERML has confused HSA with FSA. NERML--look it up and stop spreading misinformation!

An HSA is a Health Savings Account into which you put funds, these funds are deposited BEFORE TAX, you pay no income tax on them (you do pay Soc Sec and Medicare). During the calendar year you may withdraw these funds to pay for qualified medical expenses (basically anthing with a licensed medical provider and PRESCRIPTIONS but not over-the-counter items such as cough syrup). Any money not spent is rolled over into an account that DOES PAY INTEREST and it accumulates tax free until retirement. There is a maximum amount you are allowed to deposit each year but no limit on withdrawals. these are actually a great option that more people should look into.

An FSA on the other hand is a Flexible Spending Account. This is money put into an account from which you can make withdrawals for qualified expenses, usually including a smorgsabord of medical, child care, dental, education. These funds are "use it or lose it" so you are advised to make a conservative estimate when enrolling. I know much less about the details of these accounts, but they ARE NOT THE SAME AS HSA.

Double post, sorry. Not sure what happened.

Comments 1.4 and 1.6,

Collapsed by the community " Invisible forces of deception, smear campaign and misinformation".

Just like spoiled rich kids when they get their ear pulled for bad behavior ( Ruining millions of lives ) in this case.

Collapse the comments, if you cannot argue against it, because you know it's true.

Simplethirdworlder, you are the people I feel sorry for, who are trying to get back on their feet. My wife lost her job too, UI is very little, but it helps us get through. The people I'm talking about get more food stamps than they can use, and try to sell them for cash, I see it often at the grocery store.

Larry, come to my part of the country. It might change your mind some. I'm always for helping those who need it. Just not for those who think they are entitled to handouts.

When I joined the workforce you didn't need a Medical exam,an Eye exam, an aptitude test or a skills test in order to take a test just so you could progress to the next level of the job qualification so you could finally apply for the job..

No you worked your way up were trained gained knowledge progressed and went out of your way to better yourself..

Well thats me, I'm too smart for my job but can't prove it.

MAgnum, not that I do not agree with some of what you have said but the rest about not being able to find skilled workers is bunk.

Corporations have done away with their training programs because they cost too much money to operate, or at least in their greed riddled minds that is how they see it. Some of it has to do with Obama and corporations run right of center, but not all of them do.

The real problem is that employers are expecting everyone to be well educated like the past generation of workers, who are know thrown out of their jobs my age discrimination, were. This is a mental defect on their part, they do not see to realize that not many people are willing to put themselves into debt to attain college degrees in order to obtain a job.

Most technology related jobs require at least an associates regardless of certifications. Higher brow places like Intel require a bare minimum of a Bachelor's and a lot of their positions require a Master's. You have to put yourself into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt to attain a Master's these days if you do not have a job that pays more then 65 to 70 grand a year and it is only going to get worse until these colleges and universities are required to be accountable for their price gouging.

Employers also are too strict in what they are looking for in an applicant. This recession has frayed the nerves and convictions of a lot of people, until we get our economy in the red people are going to be very apathetic in relation to job performance. You you personally work your hardest at a job knowing you are just going to be fired anyway while your employers downsize to increase their profits?

Until the economy is fixed employers should not expect the same quality of work that was done prior to the collapse, we are not China we will not do the same amount of work for less money if the change between then and now is big enough; and it is.

Employers are on the cusp of a losing game for themselves. What we have on our hand are millions of people who remember what it's like to not have to worry much about expenses and spend relatively freely knowing that another paycheck is just around the corner. Two and a half years into this "recovery" is just starting to scratch the surface of cultural change. I see older folks and employers making a lot of noise about these "lazy", "unambitious", "arrogant kids demanding" unreasonable pay and "shirking" their responsibilities like paying back their debts.

The reality is that this "recovery" through a variety of factors(preemployment personality screenings, credit checks, unemployed applicant disqualifiers, drug screening, the list can go on and on) has left millions of families learning to live with considerably less than they thought they could and still finding some happiness. When you have a society filled with millions of otherwise employable people that have given up looking, you have the beginings of a cultural shift. What shift will come about remains to be seen, but judging by the comments made by the under 40 crowd it's looking like banks better get comfortable not getting paid back consistently. Employers should expect to have "trouble" with their employees work ethic, because the majority of working age adults for the foreseeable future are disillusioned with the American Dream. Seeing as how the majority of working age adults will be or are parents to the next genration of working age adults it seems employers are in the midst of a long walk down a short cliff.

The only loyalty I see most folks have any more is to their own family's and I think the over simpliefied answer "that folks will move on" when the economy "improves" (yeah, right) is just that, oversimplifiied. Things didn't go back to "normal" after the Great Depression for almost 100 years and doubt that employers liked the shift in power to gov't and workers that came in the years after either. They're shooting themselves in the foot.

@Irene-1649586 -- My comment was based on information from our company insurance provider. Part of the package the insurer offers is a product they call a 'Health Savings Account' (their product name, not mine) but it operates as you describe a Flexible Spending Account. The provider's 'Health Savings Account' can only be used for medical expenses.

Apparently the insurance provider was attempting to make their product offering look more attractive than it really was. No, I am not an insurance specialist so I based my comment on information provided from an insurance provider.

Since, apparently my comment is based on faulty info, obviously I withdraw it.

The problem isn't always a shortage of qualified workers. A lot of the time it is the unreasonable expectations of the employer. Two job openings posted recently in my area for mail clerks. The basic duties were receive the incoming mail and distribute it to the proper party. Then process the outgoing mail getting it ready for USPS, UPS, or FED EX pickup. Not exactly rocket science. Both employers required a minimum of 2 years of previous mail room experience. Both required a associates degree. Both employers required you to fill out a on-line application. Both employers required you to download a resume in Word format. Both employers required a cover letter to accompany the resume. All for a WHOPPING $10 a hour on a 37.5 hour week! If you are lucky enough to get a interview and be chosen.

Is this what is meant by "American exceptionalism"? People fighting for a place at the table? Being paid diddly squat for their labor? I long for the America I grew up in, but it is long gone and never coming back.

The fault lies solely with people's lack of ambition and persistence required to get qualified. I live in a city with an engineering/science university; the graduates are in great demand, and the average starting salary exceeds $60,000. I also have a daughter who is a ceritified medical technician; she changes jobs every few years simply because she can...she has a needed skill to offer.

I don't get why you don't understand market dynamics. If the graduates are in great demand at $60,000 then it is obvious that $60,000 is too low, except for some suckers who sign up. Pay more and you will be able to fill that demand.

Way back when, they hired recent grads form college with just about any degree and then did a lot internal hiring. Back then margins allowed for that training, but over the years margins have shrunk and expenses have grown and thus a lot of in-house training perhaps has diminished.

Then maybe it is time to unshrink the margins. American business is literally reporting record profits this quarter. There's more than enough money to invest in educating and training the American workforce - if they wanted to. They just don't want to.

Okay, I did the research on HSAs. These things are simply another way of avoiding taxes - nothing more. Basically they are set up to run like an IRA or other tax deferred investment - using health care as a cover. Only High Deductible insurance plans qualify.

Great way to avoid taxes - doesn't seem like it is much benefit for lowering medical costs, though.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Taxes/Pages/Health-Savings-Accounts.aspx

(CAUTION: This link opens a PDF file.)

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p969.pdf

Nerm_L

Of course HSA if do not control the actual cost of healthcare, you are an idiot. Quit posting and crawl back into the 1960's.

"Qualified" means they'll work for low wages. Here's where they are finding them:

Foxconn workers threaten suicide protest in China

By John Chan
14 January 2012

Hundreds of protesting workers in Foxconn’s Wuhan plant threatened to commit collective suicide by jumping from the factory roof in early January. The incident is another indictment of the giant electronics sweatshop’s brutal treatment of its workers, made possible by the police-state regime imposed by the Beijing government.

Taiwanese-owned Foxconn is the world’s largest manufacturer of electronics for major international corporations such as Apple, Sony and Dell. It employs one million workers in China. The plant in Wuhan mainly produces Xbox 360s.

During 2010, there were 18 suicide attempts over unbearable military-style discipline at Foxconn, in which 14 young workers jumped to their deaths from factory buildings. Amid outrage within China and internationally, Foxconn installed safety nets in some factory dormitories and promised to increase poverty-level wages for workers.

None of the supposed improvements has materialised. Instead, the company has moving to inland cities like Wuhan, where labour is cheaper. It is also preparing a program to replace a large number of workers with one million robots. Last May, an explosion in a Chengdu factory making iPads killed three workers, due to poor ventilation in the polishing department.

The latest protests erupted after managers at the Wuhan plant decided to move 600 workers to a new production line on January 2, making cases for the Taiwanese computer company Acer. An unnamed striker told the British Telegraph that they were put to work without any training and paid on a piecemeal basis. “The assembly line ran very fast and after just one morning we all had blisters and the skin on our hand was black. The factory was also really choked with dust and no one could bear it,” the worker said..

…Amid renewed international concern over suicide attempts at Foxconn, Microsoft, the owner of the Xbox 360 brand, issued a statement, claiming to be “committed to the fair treatment and safety of workers employed by our vendors, and to ensuring conformance with Microsoft policy.” In 2010, amid the suicides at Foxconn, Microsoft made similar toothless comments, while defending Foxconn as “a responsible company.”

Major Western corporations like Microsoft and Apple depend on the ruthless exploitation of Chinese workers in sweatshops like Foxconn’s. With surging sales of iPads and iPhones, Apple’s operating profit rate has risen to 30 percent in recent years—compared to just 1.25 percent for Foxconn. In the first half of 2011, Foxconn recorded a net loss of $17.65 million, whereas Apple surpassed Exxon Mobil as the world’s largest corporation based on market capitalisation….

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/jan2012/foxn-j14.shtml

ThaPyngwyn .....I'd stay away from the military...they're just looking for some more warm bodies for fodder. They are always interested because the US is always at war with someone. The comment about education and testing....well, America is ultra-concerned about proving one's "genius", rather than educating anyone to really do something. We are a nation obsessed with unproductive "geniuses", rather than a country interested in doers.

As we shift from a pure "employer's job market" to a more level playing field, it always takes time for employers to realize hiring policy changes. They can no longer automatically discard the long term unemployed, older candidates, the "over qualified", or any other whole groups. They will need to start looking for trainable talent and will have to start paying better wages and benefits to keep them. Smart employers will get ahead of the curve... short term greed mongers will hold out for profits over their own future.

some people are lost.

For any employer out there pining for a workforce with better skills than America, consider how India (or China) stack up. Employers need to wake up and stop stereotyping America...

India's $60-billion outsourcing industry is already spending almost $1 billion a year on readying these graduates, picked up from different campuses... While Nasscom [a trade association of Indian Information Technology (IT) / Business Process Outsourcing (BPO) industry] believes a quarter of the engineering graduates are unemployable , consulting firm Aspiring Minds paints a gloomier picture. In an employability study conducted last August, the firm found that merely 4.22% of engineering graduates are employable in product companies and only 17% in IT services.

articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-04-07/news/29392668_1_engineering-colleges-employability-study-nasscom

Hogwash to the businesses.

They're looking for people with college degrees, 10 years work experience, and other certifications. Then they wonder why no one applies when they advertise the pay is $10 an hour. Of course no one will apply. Then, when someone does apply, gets the job, and is gone as soon as something better is available, they are shocked as to why they left.

Drug screenings are a major issue for our drivers. Trying to find a driver w/o a drug past is next to impossible anymore.

Same thing is hitting my company. Any drug charge, OWI, or felony disqualifies you instantly. If you are in an accident in a heavy vehicle that causes serious bodily harm/death the press has a field day if the CDL endorsed driver has a record. Doesn't matter who was at fault in the accident. Most companies don't even want to risk the bad press for it.

Since 90% of the people hired never make it six months turnover is a problem. Of those that quit mostly its driving related. Moving a 40+ foot bus through morning and evening rush hours can cause situational stress.

the fact is there isnt enough jobs. too many employers are going to "STAFFING AGENCEYS" to fill positions and beat the extra cost. Staffing agencys do not spend a lot of time pouring over applications. heck, QPS never even looked at my application, i had to point out i was a welder/fab/fitter. They dont know how to screen for skilled labor, just to look at a name and place it. Manpower does try to do better, however they leave out certain factors, and also have given chump training to say a person passed a certain test needed to be an employee, and job critical. you dont hire a software grad to run beads, like you dont hire a welder to develop software. neither is trained or skilled in the others job. People like myself who are skilled workers also make staffing agencys the last resort when it comes to employment. think about that...

mossdog, would you hire anyone with the conditions created by the Obama administration? With the Healthcare disaster awaiting all companies, a company doesn't want to hire an employee that can't be fired for incompetence or any other non-government approved reason.

wtf are you talking about, dasvet?

Looming Obamacare expenses is wtf I am talking about. Look it tf up yourself.

wtf are you talking about, dasvet?

He's just another paid troll taking a poop on the discussion, ignore him.

I work for a small Manufacturing company, (YESSS..there is still Manufacturing in America) and what we find the problem is that the Young people want the management jobs that took years of experience (IN HOUSE) for the ones in those positions to get to. They don't want to do the grunt work that is entry level manufacturing.

I was talking to a Glass company we do business with, and the owner there says they are having a hard time replacing the experienced glass blowers that have retired. The new ones coming in cost more than they are worth as they have to be watched all through their shift to ensure quality.

So it's easy to say that employers expect more, pay less, blah blah blah, but what they are getting for their money?

Janine, yes, it is easy to say employers expect more, pay less, blah blah blah ...

Too many businesses want masters degree skills on an entry level salary. And too many businesses want those skills in a twenty-something package. It's good that you defend your company. And glass blowing is not only a skill but an art and you can't expect just anyone to walk in off the street and be able to learn it in a week or two ... or even a few months.

But, let's face it, most businesses are not trolling for artists and artisans. They are looking for craftsmen and paper shufflers, marketers and pitchmen. The majority of those 13 million people out of work are not lazy bums looking for a handout. Neither are they unskilled. Most have been working a lifetime. But, when the chips are down and companies start laying off workers, they no longer use the "last hired, first fired" mantra. They look at what's the most economical way of shaving the workforce. And that means they look at who's making the most money and closest to being able to retire, which would mean taking money from their investment coffers. They start culling, not by who's got seniority or who has the greatest skills, but who can we get rid of before they are retirement eligible. That would be the "two birds with one stone" ethic.

Companies offer the lowest possible wage for new hires and cry that they cannot find skilled workers to fill the jobs. Now, I'm not saying they should be paying top dollar wages to new hires but, if you want skilled workers, you have to be willing to pay for those skills. You can't have it both ways.

Everyone can squabble about demorats vs repubs all day long, both groups actually enjoy and benifit from americans in fighting. Because when it come to screwing up our economy and business its ALL THE ABOVE. They are all complicite in the reasons of our current economic problems. They either did something to cause it or they sat quietly by and did nothing. Government as a whole is to blame and its only going to get worse until government gets out of the business of trying to manage every portion of our lives.

So keep infighting....it keeps them feeling safe we aren't coming for them.

Looming Obamacare expenses is wtf I am talking about. Look it tf up yourself.

There aren't any. It's revenue-neutral. Look it up.

how can it be "revenue neutral"? Yes i also agree NobamaCare is playing a partial role in hireing. The thing about this is it comes out of the working people's pocket, and there are people who are NOT working, than are. isurenace has gone up litterally 150% in this wake as well. who's getting paid is what i want to know. cause it sure as hell isnt the middleclass that's left working. there should have been premium and deductable caps put into place instead, nope!

We have sponsored H-1B visa workers before. Part of the process is proving that you are paying the worker a "prevailing wage." The notion that employers are hiring foreign workers at the expense of citizens by paying pauper's wages is a misnomer. What you do often see is employers letting go of older more experienced workers - and later replacing them with younger, cheaper, less experienced people.

I've seen people claim they lost an $80k engineering job and were replaced by a $40k foreigner. Gubmint may be charged with the responsibility to safeguard against that, but the only way to do it effectively is to subpoena the wage records and require the HIb foreighner to also get $80k. followup by subpoena the new w-2's and if not paid the $80k make them pay a fine and let the gubmint audit be available to the American in a suit against his employer and viola the problem will be solved. The reason this isn't done is because the corporations own the gubmint and the rules have been lobbied to keep gubmint inspectors from being able to keep things in order as advertised.

This might be true if the jobs could be filled by foreign workers. Not so in all cases though. Many times companies need qualified workers immediately, as in they just won a contract that starts tomorrow. There is no time for training someone up to the standards needed.

Another result of getting degrees in inner-city social worker area of study. The only job available in their field of study is OWS protesting, which does not pay very well.

The only answer is an economic boycott. Stop patronizing companies that do not treat their employees fairly if you possibly can. I try to patronize as many employee owned companies as I can.

This high CEO bonus thing needs to stop. Most of these people (at least in my former company) are just a lot of dead wood.

i readyou, the way it happens legally is a 2 step process, (ive done HR work) to legally do it, you initially lay off the experienced professional that makes alot, replace him with a temp... then the temp gets replaced with a HR-1 visa. Some states temps don't count, so then you replace with a new inexperienced professional. Either way you just find the cheap replacement.

My daughter got a job just over a year ago for a biodiesel company. She has two BA degrees and a masters. The company is woman owned and she has the coolest bosses ever-exactly the kind of company I wanted her to find. They do not drug screen because all young people smoke pot now (so do I). They hired her at $19/hr. Within 6 months she she got a $3/hr raise and they told her they were terrified of losing her. She practically runs the place. They have doubled their workforce since she has been there and she is now their highest paid employee. She became an insurance agent while still in college and with that expertise and her connections was able to save her company $60,000 on their workman's comp insurance. They were elated. Her pay is still on the low side but considering the economy, its pretty good. I would rather have her working for this company at lower pay than work for some republican a-holes.

What is the difference between her company and others? The difference is the owner's attitudes. This is a young, progressive company. They have not saddled themselves with all the corrupt practices of other companies. They are not greedy and treat their employees like family. We need more of these kinds of companies!!!

That is great for your daughter, marinmom! Hope my kids are that lucky when they graduate.

The only answer is an economic boycott. Stop patronizing companies that do not treat their employees fairly if you possibly can. I try to patronize as many employee owned companies as I can.

Yes! God forbid that people step up and do what's right. We need action from the man on the street. The rest of you can wait for the government solution. Just keep waiting. It isn't going to happen.

Instead we can make decisions to deal with companies that are employee owned that deal with the local community instead of bad mouthing big business only to run to WalMart on pay day for the latest Pixar film and a new blu-ray player for a 6 month olds bedroom.

Investing yourself in your community can work if people get together on it. You may not be able to do it in all cases but every bit helps. So you still have to pay out to Exxon, Ok. Don't let that stop you from buying from the farmer's market. That way of thinking is self-defeating.

The notion that employers are hiring foreign workers at the expense of citizens by paying pauper's wages is a misnomer.

No it's not; it's flat out BS. Just more drivel coming from the puppets on the left who are being conned by their masters into believing the evils of the world are the fault of big business even as their puppet-masters line their pockets with money from those very same "evil corporations". That's the mindset of the democratic politician, they know damn well that their policies wouldn't stand a chance in hell of getting them elected if the people knew the truth. So point their fingers at someone else and pile on the blame and BS. Con enough people into believing that your the solution when in fact you're the problem and you'll get elected. If you doubt it just look at Obama's re-election strategy. Blame everyone but himself. Christ, he's critisizing Romney for sending jobs over seas while at the same time he's got a "jobs tsar" who is the head of a company that employes mre people overseas than it does here.

backcountry: open a window and take a breath for heaven's sake...How about a little taste of that personal responsibility you tout? You supposedly understand economics but claim businesses exist only to find the cheapest labor OUTSIDE the US? Take another look at that. Cheap, unskilled labor perhaps, but companies who need SKILLED labor, right there at home, do not save anything by sponsoring engineers and scientists and doctors from elsewhere. You want to whine about unemployment?? GET SOME SKILLS and keep up!

backcountry, it is no use telling the libs that blame their troubles on the only people that can, or will employ their unqualified, incompetent @$$es. Government cannot, forever, pay them a thing that isn't confiscated by the government. That is why we are heading to a seventeen trillion national debt shortly. They will never understand that government cannot give them a dime that isn't borrowed, or taken from someone, or some company that earned enough to pay taxes in the first place. Math is a foreign language to them.

@AP-1414066

AP-1414066

backcountry: open a window and take a breath for heaven's sake...How about a little taste of that personal responsibility you tout? You supposedly understand economics but claim businesses exist only to find the cheapest labor OUTSIDE the US

I'm just going to assume you've addressed your response to the wrong person because I have no clue what you're talking about.

Like a 4 yr degree for a Secretary job. LOL

Thats why they call then ENTRY level jobs.......you start there and work your way up. With the degree the employer knows you have the education level to actually work and move up which benifits him and you.

Azrancher --Everybody understands the meaning of entry level.
What was being said is a 4 year college degree is drastically overqualified for secretary. A secretary normally does not need a a 4 year degree....short hand, typing and computer skills etc. is the type of skillset, not a 4 year degree.

AZrancher

Few questions again

So to file paperwork you need a degree??? sorry to say file clerks do not need a degree unless you want them to do other work for less pay

and currently compinies are posting requirements that do not make since(example 2 years expeince working with the new construction inspection laws, that have been out for 1 year, or 5 years experince on the new CAD porgram that is only 3 years old) or required experince that does not match the job the have an ad for......

Or here is my favorite make a general ad that does not require expeince then tell everyone if they do not have 10 years working on the aircraft they are not intersted and then to have everyone walk out since the aircraft is 9 years old.......

How out of touch can you possibly be? I passed by a Burger King today that had a sign in the window hiring shift leads for 10 dollars an hour. I'm sure they don't require a 4 year degree, but in your world a degree warrants the same pay as a burger jockey? This is not 30 years ago! The point is that while profits have increased dramatically for the corporations and companies that are supposedly creating the jobs, the wages have remained flat while cost of living has increased.

I graduated 4 years ago at the age of 30, took a job a $10 an hour and am now up to 41k at the same job in 4 years. If I was an employer I would'nt want to hand out easy cash to somebody that you don't even know if they are going to work out at the entry level. Take what you can get and prove that you are worth more.

freddy, with a degree you are making a living wage, without a degree I still make more than you with 14 years military experince in a total different feild

The sad part is with a degree 6 years ago you would be blowing me away in wages and benifits and right now degrees are worthless unless you get one in a speicality feild that costs tons on money for the degree

Sooooooo, at 34 years old, you've finished a four year degree and are just now making 41k a year? That averages out to about 19 dollars an hour if you only worked 40 hours a week, but you're salaried, so that does not always hold true. How does a "college educated" person equate this with good value or sense? Oh, and on top of that, we're all supposed to believe that you are OK with that. I call shenanigans!!!!

yea ok pay $10 an hour, that really benefits the economy. How could someone with a four year degree with student loans so high possibly live on $10 an hour. That is what people were paid ten years ago and still being paid the same now but college costs, houses, everything else has been going up. The executives at these companies made sure they are getting paid more than enough to live but nobody else right?

yea ok pay $10 an hour, that really benefits the economy. How could someone with a four year degree with student loans so high possibly live on $10 an hour. That is what people were paid ten years ago and still being paid the same now but college costs, houses, everything else has been going up. The executives at these companies made sure they are getting paid more than enough to live but nobody else right?

I don't have a college degree (working on one now in the medical field) and I am making more than freddy and have been since 1997.

Azrancher

Thats why they call then ENTRY level jobs.......you start there and work your way up. With the degree the employer knows you have the education level to actually work and move up which benifits him and you.

Good luck getting a college graduate for $10/ hr. These people looking for qualified workers will forever be wanting.

I don't know Ed, my first job out of college in '94 started me out at $10 and after six years I left at $18/hr for a job that offered $26/hr (up to $35/hr now). I was a lot younger when I finished my degree and inflation means that wage gets you less now, but it was a good 1st job that I was generally happy with and it gave me some great experience that I still use today. Now if Ed was in that job making that after 15 years experience, then I can understand the cynicism, but it seems people today overestimate what they can expect with their first post-college job.

My daughter went to school for a medical billing certificate, passed with flying colors, she now works in a super market slicing cold cuts. Every place she applied for wanted a degree plus a minimum of 2 years experiance. Can't get hired - can't get the experiance - can't get a job. Now she has a student loan to pay off slicing balogna.

Not sure where you are, but secretaries pretty much don't do shorthand anymore and filing is pretty close to being a thing of the past, too. Required skills now are different. Successful applicants need to be able to finalize PowerPoint presentations, update or manage spreadsheets, know enough about the business to screen emails and meeting requests for their managers, work with vendor contracts and invoices, etc. Is it a $10/hour job? Probably not. But, I started as an admin at $8/hour 14 years ago - with a 4 year degree - and am now a manager who makes more than 9 times more than that.

It's not about your education- it's about what you produce. Being an Art History major is wonderful, but nobody wants to pay for that.

Get a degree that not everyone can obtain in a profession that requires skills that not everyone possesses. Nursing, engineering, and the physical sciences come to mind.

right....and they wonder why young women become strippers!!! Welcome to the NEW AMERICAN DREAM!! America the new turd pool!!

I just went through pages of secretary job openings on Indeed.com and none of entry level positions I found required a college degree. Even the really nice federal jobs didn't have a college requirement. Many wanted a certain level of experience and a degree would count toward that experience. So this excuse that "everything needs a degree" is a lie.

Starting out at entry level with a four year degree at $10 an hour for a specific industry that you will grow into in 20 years is fine, but you don't need a four year degree to screen phone calls or use powerpoint. If you can't figure that out in high school or tech school, you've got bigger problems.

It's not a matter of what you want to do with your life - if you want to get that degree, that's great. But requiring four year degrees for entry level secretaries means you're not going to find them. So, perhaps the problem is that employers are expecting way more for their money than they should.

Some secretaries are good at math, too, and know better than to spend $50K to get a degree for a $20K a year job.

So guess what, then you take the $10/hour job until you get something else or until you work UP THE LADDER. I graduated college in '92 during a recession, moved to the west coast with NO job. I took a job making $5.50/hour and still managed to pay my rent (I had a roommate and NO furniture or any other 'wants'). Did I like that job? NO...within 6 months they promoted me and I was making 17k/year which still was not great, but it was better. Then I moved back to the East coast having left that job yet got an interview at the corporate office of the company I just left and was HIRED at $25k/year. Then I managed to transfer into IT and my next job was 35k, then some more training (paid by me) to learn some programming languages and I moved to NY to make $70k, then some more schooling (paid by me) and working PART-TIME jobs along the way for EXTRA money and even 3 jobs now and then. fast-forward to today and I make in the mid 100's. I'm not bragging...my point should be evident, you don't get HANDED a job you earn a job.

The only thing that has changed since '92 is the generation now 'expects' the high paying job out of college with a useless degree. I had a 'useless degree but instead of whining started my life and have done quite well. I'm sorry if someone does not want to work hard or expects life to be handed to them, but that is not how life works regardless of your parents telling you otherwise.

I have multiple skills and have worked jobs from washing dishes to mopping floors, bartending to personal training, from entry level to Sr level and along the way I certainly appreciate I made my success MYSELF with no handouts and with no whining.

Oh and btw, my company has about 100 openings in just ONE division and no we cannot find skilled workers.

Times have changed on being able to "work your way up" into certain fields. In '85, computers were coming into the workplace more and more, this one nice kid, barely 20, was the "IT" guy - mostly self taught. He would need a degree today to do the same job (insurance company). My mother's neighbor retired a GM engineer by the early 80s, but he worked his way up and got company training along the way. Today, people like that, just a high school diploma and talent - will never get the chance."
Beware the "for profit" training schools, they are getting kids to take out money for training, but the reputation of the training schools is sometime poor - the kids do not find jobs in their field. The "schools" want their Fed loan money, and the students are not well trained - not getting what they paid for.

A secretary normally does not need a a 4 year degree....short hand, typing and computer skills etc. is the type of skillset, not a 4 year degree

You are way out of touch, that type of secretary doesn't really exist anymore. You see more personal assistants than you do the traditional secretary. Depending on the Firm a PA had better not only have a least a 4 year degree, but must have master Psychic skillz.

Yeh, hadenough, they are expecting secretaries with a four year degree. And, Wolften, the job has advanced far beyond the realm of typing and answering phones.

However, TamL, not all Administrative support positions are in the class of a PA, which is, most certainly a cut above the Secretary/Admin Asst role. And, regardless how much experience and how well qualified for the position one may be otherwise, most corporations are still expecting a bachelors degree for those 'lowly' secretaries. And they still don't want to pay much over minimum wage for that skillset. The average in my area being around $12.50 with most being around $10. And THAT is insane.

And yet after all of that whining, take a look at the stats of lifetime earnings for those with a high school degree and those with a college degree. It's absurd to conclude that because you can't START at the top, the degree is meaningless...or that companies are just LYING when they say they cannot find enough skilled workers. What a nation of whining underachievers we're becoming.......

the wordsmith

My company secretary and many compies I know of still have a person just to answer the phone and another person to admin work. Why it is most cost affective to have a person worried about the person on the phone and not getting a truck load pf parts and supplies to a work site.

Our adaim person has no degree either just 25 years as a admin person in the army

Or that the employers not willing to invest in more time and money to train new employees. They want someone to just jump in thre and start working.

Good example, new graduate nurses. They have plenty of "basic educational skills". Google it. There are tons of new grads in Cali, Northwest and other large cities that can't even find a job for a yr or more. They are sending 100s applications with no results. They want nurses with 1 yr exp and these new nurses can't get experience without working first. Simple fact. Employers don't want to spend any money to train new workers, want workers to work for the job of 2 people while slashing their wages.

just look at the abysmal job market today, if you don't have a 4-year degree and 5 years of experience, you can't get a $35K job. and if you only have a degree or just several years of experience, you can't get a job at all.

If a new employee can pay attention to detail and isnt a quiter, they can be taught anything. This is the basis for military training and it works. By definition, vets have already passed through this filter. Employers, if you have to risk resources training somebody, vets are by far your best shot at success. And if you get an NCO or officer, they'll already have formal leadership training. Its a prerequisite to promotion.

If a new employee can pay attention to detail and isnt a quiter, they can be taught anything.

Yeah they could, but nobody on the corporate side is willing to do the teaching so its a moot point.

I am a General Manager who has hiring responsibilities and I couldn't agree with you more. With two twenty yr old sons, both with 4 yr degrees I have seen their frustrations real time. My oldest at 26, does the work of 2.5 people, gets paid less than one should and has not seen a raise in two years. He has been with the company for 2.5 yrs and is THIRD in seniority as nearly everyone above him, save owners, has left the company. Usually they are burned to a crisp, under paid and then replaced with a new hopeful. When he looks around for a new position he sees positions that appear to be WORSE than his own.

Generally Agreed, although I really enjoy my job (even if I was doing the work of 2 last year). As an automotive engineer, I get head hunted at least once every other month or so, but the jobs are contract and pay less. Sure, if I was out of work or currently had a contract job, then I might consider them, but why would I want to leave a direct job with good pay and benefits for a less secure job with less pay and benefits. There are still engineers out of work, but the pool is drying up and employers just aren't ready to adjust to that yet.

I have a college degree and can't seem to get an entry level job. I don't do drugs or have a criminal background. I had a job that expected you to stand at a register for 9 or 10 hours without a break; not even to eat. (by the way, this is legal in Missouri) I go into the same chain of stores, and most of the clerks cannot even count change. What is wrong with this picture?

actually its not legal... theres a federal requirement for 30 minute lunches and 2 15 minute breaks in an 8 hour shift.

FEDERAL REQUIREMENT>STATE LAWS

It's like how the company I work for has been doing things since the economy went tits-up. They've gutted the work-force, we have half the people doing 3 times the work, with every extra responsibility they can think of heaped upon the workers to boot... and the wages haven't moved in 5 years.

One of the things that pisses off the workers so much, is that company is so blatant in their unethical behavior. For example, every year for the last 5 years, we have a big company "kick off" meeting at the beginning of the year, and in that meeting, the big management make a big production of telling us how they've made record profits for the year... but then in almost the very next breath, they go on to say that because the economy is so poor, they simply can not afford raises or bonuses or hiring this year... It's disgusting..

That's one of my relative's problem - the company owners live in huge houses and spend company money on a lavish lifestyle - then cry poor to the employees. So even though he has a degree in computers, he stays at his underpaid job with middling benefits, as a serf. Otherwise he'd have to move from his small town, doesn't want to do that. Choices, in that scenario.

actually its not legal... theres a federal requirement for 30 minute lunches and 2 15 minute breaks in an 8 hour shift.

Depends on what kind of job it is. I am also in Missouri, when I was in college I worked in a DMH field, I would work 12 hour shifts with no breaks. It was legal.

I am in a professional position now, we get a 20m break for lunch that is it, but our hours are pretty flexible so I don't care.

Cassandra, I've worked for several people just like that. And, that is the problem. MOST "businessmen" don't give a DAMN about their business, they are in it it totally for the goodies they can rack up. And the result, they screw employees, AND customers, And suppliers, and in one case I Know, commit insurance fraud. And, because customers have little choice, and OTHER "businessmen" KNOW the game and play it too, nothing changes.

"Another person had two master degrees, two bachelor degrees, and about 5 software certifications but couldn't answer a single question that indicated she ever used this knowledge to produce anything."

The real question is how many degrees and certs do YOU have? You very likely let somebody walk out the door who was not only better educated than you, but once she got up to speed on the learning curve for you business, would be vastly superior to you and most of your other developers. Of course at that point, she would look for a better job because working for you is well, working for you.
Engineers from India? Low quality on the whole.

I saw this often when I was working a computer help desk. People with MCSE certifications would call in and when you asked them to reinstall a video driver or a sound driver there would be silence on the other end and then a question of how do I do that. Its at that point I always wanted to ask for their supervisor and ask why they hired this person as (at the time) even a kid in high school could reinstall a driver.

As to people moving at the drop of a hat. I'm sure you could find plenty of those type of people. Chances are though, if you are looking for a skilled person, they've already up to their ears in debt trying to pay for a house they overbought and so can't just pick up stakes and move somewhere else, where a lot (stereotype) of people in India don't have anything, so they are quite willing to move to wherever the job is.

Brian -- Installing a driver you can Google.
WRITING a driver is a little more difficult, not so easy to Google....The person with two masters and two bachelers and many certs has shown qualities that are needed in the arcane art of driver design -- intelligence, persistence, ability to study from books, not Google. She was probably a good hire.

MCSE = "must consult someone experienced." =P

"in fact they would relocate anywhere in the U.S. at the drop of a hat."

Ever been to India? you would to if you lived there.

Unfortunately, a degree does not always mean that the individual can apply the concepts they learned in school to real world applications. My company recently brought in a CPA who screwed up an account so basic that a first year accounting student should be able to handle it. He lasted about 2 months before they let him go.

I earned my Master's degree from a school that had somewhat low enrollment standards...which I learned after starting classes. There were people in Master's level classes who were functionally illiterate. These people hold the same degree I do but I wouldn't hire a single one of them to do even the simplest tasks.

I'd rather hire someone who can show me he can apply knowledge and think his way through problems than someone who has just racked up degrees on a resume. Book knowledge is great but you have to be able to use it.

That is reality these days.
You must not need a job very badly.

We have been looking for 20 high level design engineers. Not engineers that can take a CAD drawing and make something, but people you can conceptually design and develop products. We have found 3 qualified people, after 6 months hr is looking outside the country for these people. on the first sweep we had over 100 people apply of which 86 were qualified. A lot of jobs have gone away due to technology advances ....and I'm afraid they wont be coming back.

Have you tried working with the local universities, 2 year universities, tech schools to provide incentives for building a job pool? Have you attempted to hire from within and provide some additional training to boost the skill level of someone who may not have used those skills in awhile. Do you have a bad job site? I've seen lots of companies look outside their companies for the talent when the talent may just be under their nose and they just aren't aware of it.

If you did hire from within, would you raise that persons salary or just expect them to work for the same wage they are making now? Or is it cheaper to hire from outside the country where the employees will not complain about the working conditions or the salary you offer?

Why not intern students while they are going to school to get them experience while they are getting educated.

When I entered the labor market, companies provided training and education. Now days you are suppose to educate yourself when the work day is over.

I am an electronic design engineer. Have been for many years. This was always the norm for my career. The pace of technological development was such that this was no other way to stay current. I am the only surviving engineer (out of 15) after the crash of '08, simply because of the breadth of my experience, much acquired after hours. Even so, I took a 10% pay cut and moved to a customer service position for 1 year to keep my job. Now I am back in engineering.

I kept in touch with the other design engineers who were laid off. All are either out of work still or working for less money. There is a very real contraction going on in this economy. You can't tell me that there are no qualified workers out there; I know of many personally who are very good and cannot find jobs.

There is a very real contraction in wages going on right now. But only for the workers, the people in the front line who actually produce products. CEO compensation has actually grown during the same period. If you were entering college right now, which career path would you take?

This could be the death knell for American business. They no longer want to make things in this country. If companies no longer reward those who design and produce goods (forget your service economy!) but only those who manage, they will soon find there is nothing left to manage. If managers continue to off-shore design and production of goods, they will soon find they have off-shored management also. No manager can do as good a job from halfway around the world as the manager right there at the point of production.

Bart if you are one of those people your pissed if not your working. Here in Detroit the past was the same for years. it went like this, 1 Graduate from HS! 2. Your father or uncle, relative (Union member or steward) gets you a job on the auto line making $20 to $40 an hour. (Pre Mr Obama) So you have HS grads making 60 to 80K a year if not more. All that has changed as robots have replaced menial tasks.

Bart133,

Are you going to have a high school drop out do the electrical wiring in YOUR home or office? Maybe you want them installing the plumbing system, or how about the HVAC?

Take your sanctimonious drivel and put it where the sun don't shine.

Mechanics, carpenters, brick masons, welders, electricians building houses and offices seem VERY skilled to me. These guys are craftsmen. You must be seeing the laborers hired to carry the stuff and clean up.

Tradesmen still have to learn skills and when you get right down to it, HS just teaches you how to learn. Outside of reading, writing and arithmetic, the other subjects arent that useful in the real world.

The US, not so long ago,actually taught auto, machine shop, cosmetology and the likes in HS. Now you are expected to go to a secondary school, rack up mounds of debt so you can get a 10.00 an hour job.

XD - I don't see why not. Just because they couldn't deal with some of the subjects in school does not mean that person would not be a good electrician, plumber, chef, or other job.

BD, those trade skills still need more than a HS education. Unions won't hire those trades unless they have had additional schooling. And their licenses need to be kept up with continuting ed. I agree with XD, I would not want and unskilled laborer working on my home or office.

@Jolly....please stop blaming everything on Obama....its old and its tired....those automotive jobs were going and gone long before Obama took office....and they are not coming back....I am an Engineer and I have been working in Product Development for 15 years....automotive automation is not something that just happened in the last 2 years....

Its great competing with all the illegal aliens for jobs.

We need to bring back apprentice programs, we also need to have vocational programs in high school. Not everybody has the ability to get through college, but that doesnt mean they wouldnt make a good electrician or plumber, etc. Its easier to find a doctor on a weekend than it is to find a plumber, cheaper too.

Steve-2081387 - What a great point and I whole heartedly agree! As for me, I have 30 years of work history and a college graduate. My dilemma? I'm seen as being too old!

Go figure! I've submitted more than a half dozen to a full dozen of job applications out weekly for 18 mos. and in every field imaginable. Somebody, help!

Have you seen the commercials on TV? "Looking for a career in healthcare or the business world? Let us put you on the path to success!! We can have you certified as a medical assistant in 11 days! That's right, 11 days!!".

Guess who got the position you wanted? Oh, and watch out. Some person who didn't know what a needle looked like last week, will be trying to jab one in your arm next week. The only look in the mirror that these employers will take, is the one where they are making sure they look good as they go out to celebrate! :(

I agree with you and you are right but the employers will not change, and not everyone can move overseas so what is the solution?

The solution??

We eventually die.

Need - consumer advocates? Boycotting employers known to sacrifice quality and training of employees for the bottom line? They would have to be a big employer for anyone to notice. Maybe companies that have higher quality/trained employees could advertize as such, getting a better heeled clientele? Too often, the consumer is not aware of what it going on behind the scenes - until a screw up occurs.
When our HMO clinic started having tattooed - heavily - healthcare workers, I switched the whole family to a better area/location.

Militant Unions, sitdown strikes, occupy buildings and corporate HQs, make being a greedy bastard hurt.

Or, you business people should look LONG and HARD at Mexico and Brazil and many other countries with masses of under and unemployed people, and how THOSE people try to get their slice of the pie. Walls and private armies cost a lot, and STILL can't guarantee safety.

Because they can do the job! Out of over 200 applicants for Senior Design engineer only 3 were qualified. Many of them had good steady jobs so they did not continue to upgrade their skill set, now their skill set is not current enough to secure that position. I work with many Indians, they are here when I get here and they are here when I leave. They mostly all share homes and vehicles and stay mostly with their own group of people. A lot of them define them selves by their position at work and put it first, its a different work ethic!

Massa wants a slave!

Because they do the job and are cheaper, and loyal. They live together and share vehicles because you don't pay them enough to live on their own and have their own car.

No.....they are of the same culture (mostly hindu) They make more than I do and receive a stipend to be here. Do you know anything about other cultures.

It's not that they can do the job. It's that they can and will do the job at a much LOWER salary than an American would demand for the same work. It's outsourcing, just in the country. Americans spend huge amounts for degrees at university, and then have to pay those loans back. Indian universities are far cheaper, and the first generation Indians don't expect the same middle class lifestyle for thier hard work.

Frankly, I could understand the attitude that American workers were spoiled if American CEOs and shareholders weren't pocketing the difference in these salary requirements. If the price of goods came down because people were paid less to make them, we the workers would feel richer because even the lower salaries would buy more. But that isn't what happens. A manager takes a big bonus for "bringing down costs," and the market price of the goods stays the same in the short run.

In the long run though, the market is starting to exhaust. People can no longer buy goods on credit, and the market is contracting. Demand has dropped. The people who enriched themselves through this means cannot sustain the entire economy. Their demand is too small.

Jolly, if the Indians are there when you get there and there when you leave, someone ought to replace you with an Indian. You're obviously just a lazy American.

in 1983, I went to work in an MDs office. I started at $5.00 an hour. Within 3 months I was promoted to be the medical assistant to the senior partner. My salary rose very slow compared to my responsibilities but I did learn plenty. Three years later, I left the position making $9 an hour. I was a single mom with 2 kids. Over the years, I have gradually climbed the pay scale but not in doctor's offices despite holding the position of practice mgr. Since I write well but do not have a BA degree, I started writing pro bono for free publications and this bolstered my career. Now I work blogging for an auto business and make $29 an hour, make my own hours, do telecommuting, etc. I feel for those of you who are suffering through tough times...yes, it is tough out there and don't let anyone blame you (unless you are just plain lazy!). I place the blame squarely on the GOP for their fanasty about WMD, their war mongering (keep your eye on Iran), their positioning to protect most favored nations, people like GWB, John Mc Cain, Gov Scott Walker, etc and this society of exploitation and greed.

Sad end to the American dream...but were we sold a bill of goods and now the bill of goods has reached a staturation point and WE GET IT NOW?

And they send lots of US dollars back to India.

Jolly: you didn't look very hard. Probably stopped at the line on the applications that said " salary expected" and just moved on.

@Jolly...Part of the reason for that is because they are just happy to be here for one, and two they would be happy to be in that same job with no promotion for the next 20 years.

Not only that but the Indian community does tend to have a family living situation in that the grandparents of one or the other spouse are living with the family, and the wife may or may not be working also, but if she is the grandparents are there to help with the kids. Most Americans do not live in this manner and it is a part of our culture to be more independent from our parents once we can afford to live on our own.

The result of this is that a guy like me is not going to be in the office at the crack of dawn and then stay until 6 or 7pm or later because I have a family to tend to.

Also, my job is not my life, my life is my life. I work to live, I don't live to work. I go to work to pay the bills, my job is not the embodiment of my purpose in life.

They dont understand other peoples cultures. They do live together and actually share cooking lunch and pretty much they all eat together. Its how they socialize. Call it stereotyping but most of the Indians that work in my facility drive hondas (mostly Civics). Matt you dont know or haven't talked to many Indians. In order to attend college they mostly have to have a 4.0 GPA and jump through major hoops for extra credit. Only the best of the best get to go to American major colleges. The University of Mich medical school has many Indians.

My company has a department that is being eliminated because it is obsolete due to technology improvements. There are about 30 people in that department and most of them have worked there for 20+ years. During that time, none of them have bothered to update their skill sets. The company offers tuition reimbursement and none of them bothered to take advantage of it to earn a college degree.

We interviewed all 30 of them to determine if we could transfer them to a nearby group that needs more help. They were given a basic accounting concepts and computer skills test that HR had designed as the bare minimum required to transfer. 28 of them failed it miserably.

In the end, 28 long term employees will lose their jobs and will have a difficult time finding new jobs that pay as well (they make about $24/hour now) with outdated skill sets and minimal education. The department that needs accountants will have to bring in new people from the outside.

This is why I'm constantly taking classes and picking up certifications. My coworkers make fun of me for it but if my department is ever eliminated, I know that I've at least given myself some options.

And dont' forget, they also need to know how to use the company-specific software, equipment, etc. before ever setting foot in the building...

So Paul... to put it bluntly, they want the Masters and PhDs' and they really need a file clerk.

They need people with a proven history of learning on their own without alot of handholding.

peanutGalleryTheater -- Peopple who need no handholding and learn on their own can write their own ticket...if they have the desire and work ethic. If tempermentally suited, they can also be Entrepreneurs.

I completely agree with Paul. It's not that they're demanding MBAs and PhDs as file clerks -- that's an educational requirement. My experience is exactly what Paul related. Employers laid off a lot of people and transferred tasks from those positions to the people remaining. In my field for an example, someone who created marketing programs was now required to do web page design and some product marketing, too. When that person leaves a company, the employer either has to find those 3 different skill sets in one person or split that 1 job back into 2 or 3.

Essentially what they've done is made it a lot easier for the person given the additional responsibilities to find a new job, while making it much more difficult for themselves to find a replacement when that person leaves. They've been spoiled, and now they're paying for it. What goes around, comes around.

I work independently, able to meet deadlines, not afraid to put in extra personal time (reporting a company for requiring leg work outside of a work day is ridiculous & part of the problem of some of the people who refuse to work for fair wage with no skillsets) have been turned down seven times with my present company when applying for latteral moves to provide more personal skillsets despite consistently meeting goals set by management. I have never shyed away from going the extra mile to learn more and still I get no where.

A friend is a document specialist / graphic designer who was laid off some time ago. He told me of a position he applied for here in Houston -- which is still unfilled, by the way -- with a rice growing/packaging/distribution firm. They wanted a degreed graphic designer with 10 years of experience in the rice industry. And they want to start the person at $30k. WTF?

They need experienced graphic design help, but don't want to pay for it. Who with a degree and over a decade's worth of experience is going to be happy working for $2500/mo before taxes?

And they're slapping unrealistic, irrelevant and frankly stupid industry experience requirements on top of their paltry salary.

The reason that job isn't filled isn't a lack of qualified applicants, it's a lack a smarts on the part of the employer.

I have noticed this as well. It seems that these employers have decided that everybody is so desperate for a job that they will do anything.

You hit the nail right on the head Jeff. A resume with 5 or more years at the same company these days is almost unheard of. Companies no longer give anyone incentive to stay. Maybe they should take a look at their own practices. They may just find they are their own problem.

Just because you work for a company doesn't necessarily mean you "own" the company. You know going into a job what your paid and benefits (if any will be available and the employee cost). If you are expecting to be given a stake in the company other than wages & benefits, dream on. Anyone that is getting Unemployment & turns down a job should have their Unemployment, Welfare and associated freebie handoust Terminated. O'Bama & the Democrats have created an environment that pays people more not to work, and that needs reversed.

That is not completely true, Jeff. I have personally been dinged by management because of my "multiple jobs over 5 years" despite those being due to layoffs in the real estate market as a manager. My company is a major corporation and they frown on "job hoppers."

E hall... that doesn't happen as often as you think it does. Believe it or not. In fact alot of companies like to hire those people because they bring in multiple companies' knowledge of how to do things. I know because I used to be one of them. Now I learned its best to just get a government just like I have now. lol so good luck to you suckers.

@JoeB-460595: What the hell are you even talking about? Who is asking for an ownership stake in the company? No one that I've heard of -- except high ranking executives -- expects anything of the sort. People only want realistic job requirements, and fair wages/benefits.

What you have presented here is a clumsy attempt at a straw man argument: you create a situation that doesn't actually reflect reality (the "straw man") and then proceed to rail against it. It's a logical fallacy often employed by those who don't really know what they're talking about, but wish to express an opinion on the subject anyway.

Good job.

few questions, does your ad state the dress to show up in?

My current job, I came in overdressed like you seem to think and went into the feild and had to work hard in a sports coat and dress pants.

does your job have anything in its manual against facial piercings or tattoos?

even the furtune 500 compinies are hiring them now.....

What do you consdier a scooby doo goatee? can you define it better?

and they taught to me in school when i graduated over 15 years ago

Fact of the matter is I had interviews in a sports coat and dress pants and dress shirt and tie for over 100+ jobs when I got high tenured out.

Had a goatee, and a high and tight

mosts vets grow facial hair after they get out

like a man once said if you judge a book by a cover................

The goatee thing is a bit over the top. As long as its neat, I got hired for an engineering gig with a ponytail (I'm a guy). The tattoos/piercings, depends on the job and what the tats are. Everything else I totally agree. If a person can't take the time to present a professional image can you really trust them to do their job in a professional manner?

My current job, I came in overdressed like you seem to think and went into the feild and had to work hard in a sports coat and dress pants.

Not sure where you're going with this. They took you into the field and worked you hard during the interview, or you didn't pay attention to the work that you would be doing and dressed inappropriately? Your fault, not the bosses!

Thomas Edison you are not.
Edison stated he learned it was not possilbe to look at a man and determine what he could do just by how he looked....and lucky for him he believed that , as he hired Edwin C. Barnes who looked lilke a tramp at the time.

You should get out more, perhaps.

depends on the job as I stated I appied for a job that stated it was office work and team leading

She forgot to mention the team leading was out of office, since I was willing to work in the sports coat and tie I got the onsite "interview"

she hired me and a army vet with long hair in a pony tail and tats up and down his body

of course Albert Einstin was a perfect example of perfect prestion, or Teddy rosovelt, bill gates, an plenty of other people

Sounds like Az is looking for wallstreet business men and woman to work for him not people actual used to doing hard work

If your requirements are for people with a specific look, put that in your ad and don't waste people's time. Also, what you are doing is discriminatory and YOU could be fired or fined. I also prefer a certain look in the people that I work with, but I also realize that looks don't necessarily have anything to do with performance. By the way, post a picture of yourself and see how many of us would hire you! I would be reluctant to hire a big bellied, fat faced male over the age of 40. Hire him and find him dead at his desk from a heart attack in no time.

Well if he is the boss he can hire based on whatever he wants. Even can discriminate based on age, sex, religion, race etc - He just cant say that is the reason legally. :) Those that are hiring make the rules. Sad but true.

When a client or customer comes into one of my business's and they see an employee, that employee represents my company, my name and basically me. I demand that they look and dress in a manner that does that in the most positve light. Social statements are made on private time. I will not have my clients or customers dealing with nose rings/eybrow rings, goatees, purple hair etc etc...

Thats is not the image my business will project to anyone. I was always taught you only get one chance to make a first impression.

Appearance, proper grammer and communication skills,manners are all difficult to find today. My point was that they are out there, I just have to screen more and more people to locate them. If self expression is a priority to you then you probably would not get hired by me, my business's are operated more like the marines (which is where I got my start) but thats my choice since they are my investments.

Also, what you are doing is discriminatory and YOU could be fired or fined

Man, if that isn't a full blown sense of entitlement nothing is. You can face legal problems if you discriminate race, religion, etc. What you look like and how you act is not protected. If you look like a slob and can't string two sentences together you fail.

. By the way, post a picture of yourself and see how many of us would hire you! I would be reluctant to hire a big bellied, fat faced male over the age of 40. Hire him and find him dead at his desk from a heart attack in no time.

Attitude is another thing. You don't agree with his position so you launch personal attacks. Maturity is a key to getting a good job with a "living wage". Again, you fail.

The true answer is somewhere in the middle. It was once such that a woman with an ear piercing anywhere but the bottom lobe was freakish. Today, it's far more common and can be attractive.

I have a tattoo, but it isn't on my face and it isn't visible in a job interview. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect applicants to dress to impress in an interview. Hopefully you understand that not everyone can afford a nice suit. But slacks and a shirt with a collar (polo-style or long-sleeved) is not tough to get, and cheap versions are most certainly available. (I know, I bought many when I worked as a waiter.)

Years ago, and it was a long time, I admit, we were taught in High School how to apply for a job. Men were to be in suits, ladies in dresses or skirts. I realize times have changed, however, when trying to make a good impression, why can't someone look inside their closet and find something decent to wear?

You all have been brainwashed by the pictures of the workers in Silicon valley and the casual way they dress. That is not the real world for most employers.

Why can't the schools teach kids what they will really need to work in the real world? Teach them arithmatic, so they can balance a check book and understand a mortgage and their paycheck. This "New Math" is a waste of time. Just what is it used for? Does anyone use it outside of higher technical positions? Not every student needs to go to college, and not all are suited for it. Vocational schools should be emphasized more. Do you think an MBA is going to unplug your toilet or tub drain?

We've wasted whole generations on irrelevent education and now they are paying the price because education has become all about big budgets and free spending and not about the students. Cirriculum has become easy because some students aren't getting the help they need in the early grades to keep up.It isn't a wonder the kids act up in class; they are BORED beyond belief.

No child is born stupid! It's the quality of the education they get on the way.

By the way, post a picture of yourself and see how many of us would hire you! I would be reluctant to hire a big bellied, fat faced male over the age of 40.

Given that he owns his own successful business now (he's hiring), I don't think he needs a job.

I happen to work in research staff at a high-end bank. We have a bunch of PhDs on the floor. Normally, PhDs try to get away with everything, especially beards. Everyone here is clean-shaven. Everyone shows up wearing a suit. Everyone comes in with a good attitude.

If you like earning money, you dress for the job. The way you dress is a sign of respect for your work and the people around you.

You also not going to hire the schmuck that comes in wearing a cowboy hat, cowboy boots and and a big fat buckle either. Yah right...narrow minded son of a beeeotch

You're telling us you can judge a book by its cover? Lies, sorry. I understand how it makes hiring easier for you, but it is not the case that fashion correlates to experience and skillset. Your method of screening (mass gathered in a room, and sent home based on a checklist). You could make it even more efficient by giving those that showed up a checklist and let them go away without the embarassment or waste of time. While I understand your approach, it would fail by weeding out exceptional talent in the IT (specifically the online gaming and entertainment space). Now, don't get me wrong, if the business and position they are applying for has a specific image, and image is part of the product being furnished, then that makes a little more sense. I just must adamantly defend those that are more expressive as a result of being more expressive - they aren't necessily conscious of the fact they need to impress you with clothing and labels - as insane as that seems. The culture breeds this expectation. As one commenter previously stated, coming over dressed often DISQUALIFIED a person from a job because it made them look awkward and uncomfortable - people don't trust the persona behind a suit and tie (we always ask the motive for the dress just to be sure they don't just ordinarily like to dress up).

AZ,

Depends on the job and business, we have big wigs come in to the office every week and most of my crews do not wear suit or are clean shaven, hell in fact the office workers come in jeans and decent shirts(because when we were hired she told us any of us could be working in the feild to make a deadline), we get more business than other compinies trying to enter our feild(building maintance for business and foreclosed homes, empty shopping centers, etc) we have low turn over, good pay and benifts......

Worked with major compinies recently and only the bosses were in suits in tiees the rest were in polos and decent pants, and after we finished the building maintance our dirty looking scruffy looking crew got hired for more work for the company because the last two maintance groups they hired on looks alone to more time and had cost overruns

You cant judge a book by its cover, but if its cover doesnt interest you, youre not going to read the book. People who show up at interviews looking like they just crawled out of a dumpster rarely get a second interview. If you want to get hired, show up looking like you want a job, and when you leave, leave the interviewer wondering how they ever got a long without you.

What kind of business do you have? Why would ANY ONE show up to an interview with shorts?

Edison stated he learned it was not possilbe to look at a man and determine what he could do just by how he looked....and lucky for him he believed that , as he hired Edwin C. Barnes who looked lilke a tramp at the time.

Edison also royally screwed over Tesla, an arguably more brilliant inventor.

I will not have my clients or customers dealing with nose rings/eybrow rings, goatees, purple hair etc etc..

LOL really?! GOATEES?!?!

I have worked in I.T. and Operations - and I've seen many guys (it's always guys) who show up for an interview in shorts and a polo. Completely unprofessional - and immediately removes them from consideration.

Az, have you looked at your customers lately? Have you noticed they're getting older and greyer? And dying off?

And I'm about your age and and DO wear a goatee, and I'd put MY customer skills up against yours any day of the week.

You miss the whole point........Its not that he is dressing up, its that he is making the effort to dress to impress and show his capabilities and what he will do to secure employment with you. Thats the point. Especially in a job that does not require daily formal dress. When I see a guy go the extra effort to clean up and make a great first impression.....well that says a lot about him. One more mark in the good column. Its all about first impression and effort.

I hired a man three plus years ago who arrived for his interview early, was waiting in his car to come in on time for his interview when one of my trucks went by, hit a puddle and spalshed muddy water all over him through his rolled down window.

He came into the restroom, cleane dup the best he could and presented himself for interview ON TIME. His first words were that he was sorry for his appearance, he told me what happened, then was sealed it was he told me "I realized I did not have time to go home and change so I had to decide to appear like this and be on time as I promised....or go home and be late or miss the interview. I decided to accomplish my mission and be on time."

I hired him, because he came to impress and put a lot of effort in it all for a minimum wage labor job, showed me that despite problems he would set goal accomplishment over personal issues. He thought I would run him off, now he is one of my top drivers and makes $50,000 annually.

Thats my point........effort.

I love over 50, its always been my motto (since I hit 50) that old age and treachory will always overcome youth and skill.

You dont get really dependable until 50, dont call in sick to go party, get up early anyway so they are never late, I prefer mature employee's.....they have more experience than any school could ever teach.

Wow AZ your bound to get the wrath of the younguns, specially the OWS group who revel in standing out. Where as we yes Im your age were taught to blend in and be productive by means, not by telling people how much you accomplished.

Well ever since I started my first business I found out that no matter what I do some one is going to be mad about something..but my priorities have been:

1.provide excellent product & services and to keep the customer happy and pizz off who ever you have to to make that happen.

2. Keep my staff content so they will make the customer happy.

I was trying to point out that over the last several decades the wall dividing personal life and professional life has crumbled and many people seem to want to live out their personal life at work. On the job a worker expresses my image, my requirements and my goals...thats what I pay for.

At home they express their private social images and freedoms.

That used to be clearly defined and understood, not so much anymore.

When I hire for a deisel mechanic I want a man to apply clean cut, neat and dressed well and mostly to promote himself to me like my business cant exist without him and he is aiming at vice president of operations...not just the mechanic job. Then I know he fits in, represent my business well and will go farther and do more than "just the deisel mechanic" position. Thats what I am looking for. Thats the future of my business, mechanic today, manager tomorrow, operations chief next year???? I look for a part of a team, not just an employee.

Thats what kills me about kids today, they want to start at the top. My current position I started mid-level due to experience and over the last four years created (or recreated) my position. The result is I've been promoted to the maximum pay grade and have the ear of the boss. People just want to sit, do the minimum and be rewarded. That doesn't work, and shouldn't work.

You old farts (just joking around) seem to be having a "when I was a kid" love fest over here but I would like to point out just a few things...

A lot of the problems people are expressing have to do with large corporations, not necessarily small businesses, which as successful as you sound like you are you probably are classified as a small business.

As far as starting at the bottom, I don't think too many people have a problem with that as long as there is a path to the top or near the top. I am 38 years old this month, have a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering and an MBA....I have been in pretty much the same type of position for the last 10 years or so with no possibilities for advancement no matter how good of a job I do.

The problem I have found is that #1 - employers don't want to pay, and #2 - upper management tends to look for people who will "bend the truth" to the customer in order to get more business....they are more concerned about sales than about producing a quality, reliable product.

Also, If I am out looking for a job right now, I cannot afford to "start at the bottom" at this point in my career. It's just not feasible.

You dont get really dependable until 50, dont call in sick to go party, get up early anyway so they are never late,

I'm 34 - I've never once in the entire time I was employed (from 14 - 28) called in sick unless I really was sick (I've had to leave work because I was so sick I needed to be hospitalized), I was late one time (when an idiot over 50 driver who was running late decided to run a red light and hit my car - I still made it to work after the accident was dealt with, luckily I wasn't terribly hurt). I agree that for many people, these attributes come with maturity. However, you can't assume a younger worker will be immature or that an older worker will be mature.

I'm 34 now - I've been unemployed since I was 28. Not because I was let go or anything - but, because I decided to go back to school and FINALLY get a college degree after my divorce. I'm in medical school now, so I'm still not looking for a job. Once I'm done with school, I'll match to a residency - and the skills of time management, work ethic, etc. that I've had my entire life and have really honed while in school will certainly be necessary. After residency these things will help in practice (along with everything I am learning now and will learn during residency). Because I'm going to medical school, job searches, interviews, etc., are done a little different than they are for many other types of jobs/careers - physician positions are rarely advertised in the paper or on job websites.

btw - above you mentioned certain things that will make you not want to even interview the person. I can actually see why some of those things would make you not want to interview the person. Tattoos don't bother me - I have a few myself. That said, in a work or professional environment, they do need to be able to be covered up as there are people that perceive tattoos as unprofessional, etc. I get the proper dress thing also - I was always taught to look at the job you want - and dress one level above that for the interview (unless the job requires a suit - then don't wear a tux, wear a very nice suit). I have a feeling when you say "Scoobie Doo Goatee" you are referring to an unkempt goatee - I can even get this, personal grooming speaks to the level of care/pride the person will put into their work (maybe it isn't always a perfect predictor, but, it does make an impression). I also feel that people shouldn't douse themselves in perfume or cologne - be clean, no smelly body odor or bad breath, but no perfume/cologne. Perfume/cologne can be very overwhelming, distracting - and some people are allergic to it (you probably won't get the job if you cause your interviewer to be nauseated or have an allergic reaction).

I also like your statement - I look for a part of a team, not just an employee. As an employee, a person is playing a role in a team. The teams goal is to promote and grow the business. If the person won't fit into the team you have, then they probably aren't the right person for the job - even if they have the skills to perform the job. The right person for a position will not only have the skills for the position, but will be able to work well with the rest of the employees and clients. Since different businesses have different objectives, the make up of the right team for one business will be different than the make up of the right team for another business.

No. Most of us young 20 year old's WANT to start at the bottom. It isn't as if we are applying for the CEO position. But we are turned away from even the most BASIC ENTRY LEVEL POSITION because of "lack of experience". Which is ironic, for it is THOSE entry level positions that are supposed to give someone job real experience since the average business today doesn't care what jobs you had in high school or college. Now sure those "piercing & weird hair color youngin's" might have a problem getting jobs. But when us young people who are drug free, crime free, dress well, communicate well and have prior work experience don't even get an interview let alone a callback after an interview when apply for work, it obviously isn't because we are applying for the CEO position.

As this guy said. He hires 50 year old's because they have experience, but is too much of an idiot to realize that he isn't willing to GIVE job experience so that the 20 year old's of today might be experienced 50 year old's later!

Az you must work in a niche feild, since most desiel mechinics I know get dirty when they work and when I interview for my boss for an equipment maitance person, I looked for one ready to work and good skill sets not caring about what he appeared as, Well we hired a female, that comes in clean coveralls but by lunch her coveralls are dirty and she is filty, boss just promoted her to the "non residental" side of the house even though she came in a dress and facial pericings... I looked deeper than cover of the person and hired a great additio to our team. Of course we also turned down some really fancy dressed up people because they cover was nice but their resumes were not and neither were their "work practices"

We do not hire people based on their possible use in the company five years down the road we hire them on the basis of their work, we then mold them into a better boss, or what ever we need(boss paid for the Girls schooling on the newer equipment)

The problem is every job out there wants you to start at the bottom, even if you were previously halfway up the ladder and have a house and kids and financially have no way to make ends meet on the bottom wage. And the work is generally not bottom level either, they expect mid level work for starting level wages.

Gee az, if I hired a mechanic, I'd want him to be A MECHANIC, not some lunkhead brownnoser who wants the job to get into management as soon as possible. You should REALLY read the book The Peter Principle.

Yep, Better an EXCELLENT mechanic with a few tattoos, who KNOWS hie or her level of competence, than some brownnosing promotion happy schmuck intent on reaching his or her level of incompetence.

You were expecting quality journalism?