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Brandon Thibodeaux for msnbc.com
Megan and Sam Moss, pictured here with their baby daughter Mary Margaret, are living on the nation's median household income of around $50,000 a year.
For the last couple of weeks, Life Inc. has been exploring what it’s like to be in the exact midpoint of the nation’s economic spectrum.
The We are the median project prompted thousands of readers to share their stories and thoughts on what it’s like for to live on the nation’s household median income of around $50,000 a year. And it also prompted lots of you to tell us about what it’s like to be much worse off.
Many readers told us they can only hope to bring home $50,000 a year.
“$50,000 would be great to make a year. Single mom with 2 kids and I bring home less than $35,000. Took a cut in hours to keep my job,” one reader wrote in response to our profile of a mom and son who are struggling with a drop in income.
Another profile, of a young couple bringing home around $50,000 a year and juggling high student loan bills, also prompted some to tell us that people need to pay more attention to those who have it much worse.
“Why is this news? We make less than $27K, I have over $80K in student debt. My dream is a nightmare and we are family of 4,” one reader wrote.
Although some readers told us they are doing just fine on incomes below $50,000 a year, others said it’s very hard to make ends meet on a lower income. In a post this week about a family choosing to live a very simple life on about $20,000 a year, many readers questioned whether low-income living is really “living well.”
But some found the story inspirational.
“It's gratifying to hear stories of real people. I applaud this young family and see their lot improving, over time. My husband and I struggled in our early life, with young children and little money. … Our kids are not scarred because of this, they are all hard working, successful contributors to society. We have always had to be smart about our money and now that we have more, we are still frugal,” one commenter wrote.
Apparently that’s not a lesson many parents are passing on to their children. In a post about a young couple getting a good financial start in life, about 40 percent of our readers said they hadn't learned much from their parents about how to manage money.
“My parents didn't tell me anything about budgeting. It's a hard lesson I now know and am passing this on to my kids,” one reader wrote.
How much would you have to bring home to be free of money worries? More than half of our readers said they would have to make $250,000 or more per year in order to feel rich.
For some, the more money, the better.
“As much as possible. You're never secure in this country unless you are the 1%,” one reader wrote.
Still, some readers said they would settle for much less.
“I would be thrilled with that (to me) mythical $50,000 per year..........!” one reader wrote.
Leave a Comment:
I wouldn't want to live on $30k/yr - but if I had to I could. It seems Americans have become selfish and materialistic - and have a sense of entitlement. I hate watching the news/documentaries about how people are struggling to put food on the table or pay their electricity - while they are holding iPhones in their hand, with their big flat screen TVs hanging on the wall alongside their iMacs, iPads. That flat panel TV you have would probably pay for 6 months of electricity.
Exactly. They have the money for big screen TVs, every game console and bluray player you can think of to attach to that TV, and plenty of electronics yet they somehow can't pay the necessity bills...
The city of Minneapolis was talking about subsidizing high speed internet for low income people and I thought to myself: if they are so low income they need high speed internet costs reduced, how can they afford a computer?
Also, I (a denizen of the vanishing middle class) have to pay full price for high speed internet because it is a luxury. How is that fair?
In the Philadelphia area, it would be almost impossible to live on $30,000 a year. The biggest problem between here in and most of the rest of the nation is the high cost of housing.
What kind of house would $100,000 buy you where you live? In Tennessee or Oklahoma, that could buy you a mansion! In the Northeast though, that would buy you a small run-down house in a bad neighborhood. What are your taxes? If I paid off my house tomorrow I would still be paying $400 a month in "school" taxes (even though our schools suck, but I digress). Car insurance costs a lot more here, probably because there are more people, more congestion, and therefore more opportunities for accidents. When I moved here, my insurance on my '99 Prism jumped from $600 every 6 months to $1100!
A lot of the higher costs are simply the result of living in the proximity of those who have a lot of money. Because SOME in the area have a lot of money, the cost of everything is higher, mostly because stores know they can charge it and there are people who are rich enough to pay it. Go to grocery store in Oklahoma and buy a box of Hot Pockets. It will probably be $2.00. At an ACME or Geanardi's, or SuperFresh in Philadelphia, it will be $3.50. Why? Because if someone rolls up in a Land Rover to buy groceries, that $1.50 won't make them or break them, and the grocery store knows it. However, if you are poor and roll up in a 10y/o hoopty car, you still have to pay the extra $1.50 even though you can't afford it. They don't care though. They make enough profit from the rich people to keep them in business, so to heck with the poor people.
FYI I don't have any of the fancy things you just named, however EVERY time my boss buys something new, we get her old, so if she bought a new flat screen TV it is plausable that the next day I would have a flat screen in my house, and have not paid one dime for it. Same way I received a computer, and my x-mas bonus each year is she pays for 1 year internet. Our family does not have a land line, but we each have a basic cell phone, because this is the 21st century and a person without a cell is like driving a horse and buggy around.
So sometimes when poor people have a few nice things it doesn't mean they are blowing all there money on those nice things, it may be that the 2 nice things you are seeing are the ONLY nice things they have. And they could be gifts.
I know what you mean, those people in the picture have a refridgerator and a microwave, and they have the nerve to call themselves struggling. (Sarcasm)
I have personally experienced both sides of the median income coin. When I divorced in 2001, I was a single dad with three sons. I had worked assiduously over the previous years to eliminate consumer debt, I drove inexpensive, used cars which I could afford to own, insure, and repair, and I owned a home with a mortgage which I could conservatively afford. All of this on substantially less than $50,000 per year, or something close to the median income at that time. We lived fine, saved routinely in my 401k, ate well, and afforded inexpensive but fun family vacations, holidays, and other normal lifestyle benefits.
I remarried, and wife #2 was a disaster, racking up an extra car payment, sucking my meager savings dry, and incurring $15,000 in credit card debt. When she left after 16 months, I had essentially the same income and basic obligations, but with the extra debt piled on top. It was almost, but not quite, a bankruptcy situation. I managed to survive financially and work my way out of it, but it took several years and much hard work and sacrifice.
The lesson leared from this is that anybody CAN live OK on a reasonable income, if they make choices which are realistic and responsible. You have to choose where you live. You absolutely MUST avoid consumer debt. If you're going to incur student debt, then you better have a very high probability of an income sufficient to pay the debt. Or, work your way through school. People do it every year, and avoid debt. Don't deceive yourself into thinking that the minimum acceptable lifestyle includes a new car, 4G cell phone with unlimited data, a penthouse in Manhattan, etc.
$50,000 a year will still allow a responsible family to live economically and with reasonable comfort, if they make the right choices. No amount of money is sufficient for those who are reckless, selfish, and/or irresponsible.
I am retired and my wife and I live on a bit more than $50K/year. I have a conservatively invested IRA that we draw from if we need or want to splurge a little. As KC American said above, we could live on $30K if we had to. It would require some cost cutting (giving up cable, less golf, fewer trips, etc.) but it could be done.
Fortunately for us, I worked 40 years for a company that offered both a 401k plan and a pension. I also had full benefits during my entire career. This was in MANUFACTURING, something we, as a nation, see as no longer important.
I wonder.... If $50,000 is the median income for all Americans, what would the median income be if you excluded the so-called 1%? Their incomes are so astronomical that it must skew the median somewhat.
i think you are trolling here. I think you know the difference between median and mean.
No not trolling. Math fail. It's what I get for reading and posting before I'm fully awake.
I guess the mean income is ~63k in the US
Yeah, and that WOULD change if you took out the top earners. Technically speaking, the median would change too since you'd be removing people from the top end of the sample set, but it wouldn't change by enough to matter (probably drop the median to $49,500 or something).
Change in the median might not change all that much, but that's only because you're talking about a relatively few people. But, the mean income would change dramatically, I'm sure.
family of 6 live on 25k a year and we have what we need ..no much complaint here ..but how come u cant live it on 50k a year for a single woman in Ur article i don't understand
It depends on where they live. When we lived in Staten Island, NY, it cost us almost double, than what we now pay, living in Colorado Springs. If your family of 6 were to live on Staten Island, your $25K a year would be what it would cost for just rent and utilities, if you were lucky AND lived in the ghetto.
You live on what you make. To consider living on less than you make now is difficult. Most people don't think of themselves as wasteful and chose food and shelter first.
From there you're just adding amenities. It's amazing what you can give up when you only have enough for food and shelter.
It's also amazing what the government subsidizes these days.
Honeywell does work for government subsidized housing, and many of these families have bigger TVs than I do; better computers, and satellite TV. It's like walking into a white collar apartment, not government subsidized (i.e. taxpayer paid) housing.
The American dream is gone. The dream was that we would do a bit better than our folks and that our children would do a bit better than we did.
If your American dream is gone then you need to rethink your idea of the American dream. Wanting children to do better does not mean mollycoddling them until they feel entitled to their every whim.
My own life choices suggest I will not make as much or more money than my father the doctor. But, I chose a less compensated profession because it is what makes me happy. This is OK, and I provide for my family and for my own future, so I won't be a burden on my children.
Wheels, it seems like you don't do a lot of thinking. I do want my children to do better than I did.
If you spoiled your children I am sorry for you because you can't make up mistakes like that. If you were a spoiled child, which is more likely the case then that is too bad. But making assumptions about how other people raised their children is the most arrogant thing I can imagine.
I see too many complain that they need heating assistance to pay for fuel, yet they went to Disneyworld and have a new vehicle! Priorities, people. They only want to pay for the 'fun' stuff.
$30K a year I'd be Bankrupt, $50K a year I'd be unable to afford anything but my bills... Forget gas for my car, food, just the daily cost of living, $70K ($7K more than what I presently make) I could afford to move out of my parents' home that I have lived in since I graduated college (I *do* pay them a modest rent each month), $100K I'd be able to own my own home (which would be a DREAM at this point as a single woman living in Southwestern CT with student loan debt that is approx. $90K). My life is by no means tough and I make a good salary, but a dollar does not stretch far in this state!
Bunch of winers. First job in 68 paid $6,000 and I was able to marry and start a family. We ate a lot of chicken. I worked two jobs and sent my wife to college. There were plenty of do withouts along the way. But we didn't whine, we just did what we could. You can live without cable, cell phones, flat screen TV's, and even the Internet. We live much better today but did it the old fashion way: work, sacrifice, saving.
Ok, well "back in the day" isn't very helpful for those struggling right now is it? Surely you are aware there are others who work, sacrifice and save but still struggle? (and its whiners, not winers).
If you need $70k or $100k per year to live, chances are pretty good that you need a reality check. It's possible that some people with a lot of kids, very high medical expenses, or some other extenuating circumstances really would need that kind of money to live, but damn few.
On the other hand, it's ridiculous that "poor" people in this country have brand new 50" flat screen TVs in Section 8 housing.
It all depends on where you live. My husband and I make over $100,000 but we live in the Northeast. Not a lot of $$$ when you have tutition to pay.
I have no doubt that there are many people who are burdened by high student loans and each and every person has a different story. But I'm left to wonder if there aren't some who went to college with hopes of a high salaried job waiting for them afterwards but never put in the work to be successful? Hard work does not guarantee success in life, but those who are driven usually find a way to make things work.
Yeah, two terms come to mind...
NETWORK: requires the ability to meet people in their domain, ie Dad's office, country club, marina, pricey private college
BROWN-NOSE
Bob Mueller: I pay for my children's education. Mine is already paid for long ago.
I think it makes a great deal of difference based on where in the US you live. We live in the Seattle area where housing is expensive, and so are food and utilities. We bought our house at the peak of the housing boom, and like many families now, are deeply underwater on our mortgage. We can afford our payments, but it's disheartening to see that our house is now valued at nearly $100,000 less than we paid for it in 2006. My husband's employer has gone through 2 salary freezes since we bought our house, and he has managed to sqeek through 3 potential lay-offs. We are a family of 4, and following a budget is the only way we can manage. We try to shop at Trader Joe's and other discount retailers as much as possible. We use coupons for clothes, shoes and other necessities. Over time we have developed a love of cooking. We find that we can make things as good as a restuarant for a fraction of the price. We also eat vegetarian often, substituting meat with beans. I have learned a few tricks along the way. Back to school shopping is cheaper if you wait until school has actually started. Then retailers have started deep discounts to eliminate inventory before the Christmas rush. I have found clothes for my children at JC Penney for as little as $2 per item. Macy's is another retailer that does deep discounts, post season. I have found work tops and skirts there for myself, for as little as $7.99. I am also grateful that my mom taught me how to sew. Being able to mend has definitely extended the life our our clothing. We don't have an x-box, or a PS, or a Wii. Our kids don't have their own computers. Just this year, we replaced our old-style family computer monitor with a small flat screen. We recently bought our middle schooler her first cell phone because she has to travel across town town on two busses for school, and we need her to be able to call us, since my husband and I both work. Our younger daughter is in 3rd grade. Her older sister picks her up from school and babysits her until we get home from work for the evening. This is definitely an effort that takes teamwork from our whole family. I believe our kids are learning a valuable lesson from this. If we can't afford it, we don't buy it. In my 20's I got into an unmanageable debt situation where I had to use a credit counseling service. Now in our 40's, we do everything we can to avoid debt. Once you take on debt, it's almost impossible to get out from under it, and it becomes a vicious cycle of "robbing Peter to pay Paul." Not good. We are definitely a middle class family, struggling to make ends meed. We have cut back on much, but again, I feel like our kids are learning an important lesson about cherishing what you have and making it last, rather than constantly wanting more.
You will never recover ther 100,000 dollars you lost. If you have any other options you should walk on your mortgage. It is just business, just like the Banks. A mortgage is not a moral obligation. In 2008 the banks walked on billions of financial obligations, you can too.
Keith: Terrible, terrible advice. Its only a loss if and when that's the case as she tries to sell. I sure as hell hope you're not in any situation to give advice to anyone.
AP - I do give advice to many young people and many of them are no longer saddled to mortgages that they can not afford, with valuations that will never recover.
It isn't important to know what we can do without. What is important to remember is why we have to do without and that it is no fault of our own.
When I paid off my mortgage early, that was $938/month above escrow I no long had to earn at least $1400/month gross to pay. My property taxes and homeowners' insurance average about $200/month. Keeping my cars for 10-15 years each saves at least an average $200/month in car payments by getting one every 5 years, which I'd have to earn $300/month gross to pay for. Add in comparison shopping, waiting for sales, using a $6/month infrequently used cell phone, no cable TV, and being careful with home energy use and I easily save $2500/month over what I consider "typical" homeowners. They have to earn $30,000/year MORE than me just to enjoy life about the same as me. Add in things like the fact I took a $2000 Alaska Cruise at a "last minute" price of $1100, I spent two weeks in China paying $2150 for a $3700 tour, etc. and I think I do better than many making much more than me who can't be bothered to pay attention to details or delay gratification to the right moment. I amazed a coworker, who asked how could I afford so many overseas vacations to Greece, France, Israel, Egypt, etc., by pointing out that the difference in cost of my brown-bagged lunches almost every day vs him going out to lunch almost every day would pay for an excellent week-long trip for two to Europe every other year. Right now, I'd love a 55" HDTV. But the 28" ($249 total last year) 1080p HDTV is so much nicer than my old analog TV I'll get good enjoyment from it until the prices for good 1080p 55" TVs drop well under $500 - at which time the 28" will go out to the new backyard screenhouse I'm building myself next Spring. I can wait for it without suffering!
To The_Mick: Well done! Getting out of debt as quickly as possible and not demanding the best of everything "right now" does mean a higher quality of life. You are truly inspirational!
I'm a single woman, but I'm going for $100,000 a year because I'd like to buy something bigger and nice than this 35 year old shabby cracker box of a house and a new or at least much newer car than the eleven year old heap I am driving. I'm in my mid sixties and don't have time to get enough savings in the bank to retire so I need that $100,000 to invest enough to retire before I turn eighty. Right now I'm terrified I won't have enough money to pay for medicare and that I'll get slapped into some back street nursing home. We worked hard all of our lives and did what we thought was best at the time, but ten, fifteen, twenty years ago we had no idea that the economy would turn out the way it did. What we thought was adequate investments has turned out to be meager. I've earned much less than $35,000 a year for the last ten years, and I've felt poor for such a long time I need the security of a great income to feel safe again.
But on the other hand, $35,000 would look pretty good at this point. And $50,000 would be a dream. I could even take a great vacation.
Haven't heard China, India, and the Phillipines complaining, have ya ?
Funny what a little Corporate Greed can accomplish......
BIG OIL, you happy, Ho-ho-ho. ?JMJ
We could live on a lot less if it was just us and for the short term, but we're trying to put money away for retirement which is coming way too soon financially and we're still helping out our kids who are just getting started in a tough job economy and need our help with just basic expenses.