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Friday is Veterans Day, and chances are some of the nation’s most recent vets are hoping it’s the day they get a job.
The unemployment rate for veterans who have served since September 2001 — referred to by the Bureau of Labor Statistics as Gulf War II-era vets — was 12.1 percent in October. That's well above the comparable, non-seasonally adjusted rate of 8.5 percent for the broader population.
It’s also higher than the overall jobless rate for all veterans, which was at 7.7 percent last month.
The unemployment rate for post-9/11 vets has bounced around dramatically over the past few years, in part because it’s a relatively small slice of the population. But it has generally been above the national average.
The 12.1 percent rate for October translates into 240,000 veterans of the most recent wars who were looking for work, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Joe Sharpe, economic director of the veterans’ organization The American Legion, said the biggest issue facing recent vets is the same one facing millions of others: The weak economy.
But he said the tough job market is even worse for young veterans because they have been serving in the military rather than going to school and making professional connections.
“They’re just not as competitive that way as their peers, those that are not deployed, those that have the opportunity to network or finish (their) education or get certified in specific skills,” he said.
Sharpe would like to see ways for veterans to more easily get certified to use the skills they learned in the military, whether it’s health care or pipe fitting. He thinks that would make it easier for them to find work.
“They’ve already been trained (and they) already have a great deal of experience, so it really doesn’t make sense to spend additional money learning,” Sharpe said.
The situation could get worse in the coming months as U.S. troops pull out of Iraq and more enter civilian life.
Earlier this week, President Barack Obama pushed for tax credits for firms that hire veterans, as well as a program to give extra help to veterans seeking work.
Related:
Good Graph Friday: Going to college but never getting a diploma
Unemployment is the problem, but Americans see no clear solution
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The company I work for hires only through the Compensated Work Therapy Program that is administered by the local VA Medical Center. Yes we hire vets first. I encourage employers that I know in the area when in need of filling positions to contact their local VA Medical Center for information on this program.
It is a good program, cost effective and puts returning Veterans back to work, earning a decent pay and benefit package.
The truly sad part of this story is how much money has been made by the NO BID CONTRACTORS in 2 wars and are getting tax breaks. When it comes to our VETERANS they get cuts in most programs and are more dependent on help from non profit orgs.
How many Big Corpoations of the richest corps's hire the Veterans that protected their interest and Americas interest?
Retires SFC is continuing his service to all! Thank You for your continued service from one Vet to another!
Many veterans work for big corporations and weapon manufactures and any other category from surveillance to computer programmer but there is not enough jobs , this is going to get worst when veterans from Iraq return home, did Obama made any plan to provide them with real jobs, I don't think so, once they are here , they are by they are own.However if the this administration wants to open opportunities at home is, along our all wide open southern border , where they can protect our country, close to their families , without going overseas or fighting another war. Cutting budget like Democrats want in the DOD, will end cutting money and programs that help veterans to reengage in to the civil life. Salute to all veterans and thank for your service.
There's also a report that states 250,000 vets are homeless. And though I am sure there is overflow into this reported 240,000 vets without jobs, all of them regardless of age or theatre of service deserve more on our part to improve their plight in this economy. Continued and increased breaks to corporation and the wealthy at the expense of our most vulnerable under the guise of 'job creators', when they have not produced jobs, is no answer either. The continual playing off one side against the other helps no one. Compromise is needed by both sides. Extremism must give way to moderation.
So Obama is going to give them a government job. Isn't that what they already had in the military?!
So let me get this straight. Obama is going to cut spending by reducing the military and at the same time spend that money on govenment make work jobs. Hmmmm.. Why would he want to do that?
Oh yeah. He will trumpet the phantom deficit reduction while adding to the government union jobs and expand his voting base with more voters dependant on him.
Got it.
When one is called to defend one's home and family, it is not really courage that is required, it is a sense of duty. If my home is under attack, if my family is in danger, it is proper and fitting that I defend them and not expect someone else to put their life at risk for my home and family. When one is called to defend one's nation, the same sense of duty is conjured. Unfortunately, the calls to defend this nation have been issued on false information in EVERY WAR THE US EVER FOUGHT. The delusion that the US military is defending our home and our nation can be put to the lie with one simple fact: You do not defend your home by going next door and killing your neighbor. That is what our military does. There has never been a war, defending from foreign aggressors, the land that we call "ours" since we "won" independence from England (and stole from the Native Americans and Mexicans, but that is another topic.) I am sick of pretending that a person who joins today's army is a hero. They are a mercenary at best, and a murderer looking for legitimate employment at worst. The history of US aggression against peaceful nations is long and disgusting. The attack on the passenger ship the "Lusitania" was used to drag us into WW1, and it turns out the ship WAS full of military equipment after all. The passengers were murdered to rile the citizens and get them hungry for war. The citizens obliged. It worked so well the government used that trick over and over, and they are still at it today. The news is full of posturing to go to war with Iran. Iran, who has not attacked another nation in over 100 years, is supposed to be this grave danger to our freedom. Well, the joke is on us, we have no meaningful freedom left. I do not want to kill anyone. I do not want anyone to kill anyone pretending they are "protecting" me unless the attacker is IN MY HOUSE. (That is where the US soldiers are, IN THE HOMES of Iraqi and Afghan people.) I have tried to honor their heart, the thing that made them willing to risk their life for others. But they are WRONG and I will no longer defend them in any way. Defending is acceptable, but the US Military is NOT defending the US by going to OTHER nations and invading and occupying them. They are empire building and war mongering. I do not support that, and I only pay taxes out of fear of imprisonment (extortion) because I believe it is my MORAL duty to NOT fund these wars. It is a sad statement on US "freedom" when I cannot behave morally out of fear for my liberty. Veterans' Day was signed into "legal holiday" status by Eisenhower. Rather ironic, in light of his dire warnings against the military industrial complex. It seems he felt pressured to honor immoral behavior, too. It is hard to draw the line between good men and women who have been deliberately duped into fearing an enemy that does not really exist and the behavior they engage in due to that fear. So today, I do not honor Veterans who served, I honor the draft dodgers and the peace activists and the INCREDIBLY brave men who went to war and came back and TOLD US THE TRUTH. What they had to face about their own actions is no small task - we all want to believe that we make good decisions and behave morally, and it takes true strength of character to admit one was lied to and used, and then to stand and call out the liars. I still support the individuals who are caught in the military machinery, they are people who deserve better. I DO NOT SUPPORT WAR or anyone who is stealing money from me to wage it. If you are in the military, STOP KILLING PEOPLE IN MY NAME AND WITH MY MONEY. You are responsible for your actions, you KNOW there were no "weapons of mass destruction" and you know bin Laden was a CIA agent and you know Iran is no threat to you o9r me or this land we call home. The enemy uis domestic now, and if you are in the Middle East you are leaving your home and family defenseless. Shame on you. It was the men in the trenches who finally ended Viet Nam, it is up to the men and women in the desert to end the US invasion and occupation of the Middle east.
Z-2326376
I would to know more about bin laden being a CIA agent.I always had my suspicions.If you would care to elaborate on that I would appreciate it.
An entire generation of young people is seeing their lives and careers destroyed; both veterans and non-veterans. Veterans are facing the same challenges and tragedies of our college graduates.
I feel for the vets, but the article distorts reality. The vets have a higher unemployment rate because they ALL start out unemployed when they return versus the general population. Vets being at 12.1 % unemployed means that 87.9% of them found jobs... probably a higher rate than the average joe that found themselves without a job in the same period. They face the same disadvantage as our college grads except they have less book education and more real world education.
After I returned from Vietnam the same thing happened. After the First Gulf War the same thing happened. etc..
I warned all of you that this was going to happen again.
During the last visit here (Afghanistan) Secretary of Defense Gates told us of President Obama's Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military of 27,000.
What most US Civilians do not realize is that the US Military Employs almost a hundred million US Civilians, not including the US Civilians of the US Contractors.
So the RIF of the US Military of 27, 000 will also unemploy xxx,xxx US Civilians that provide direct and indirect support to the 27,000 US Military Personnel.
This article paints a rosy picture and not the actual current numbers as stated by CBS News:
Finding work for unemployed veterans
For many veterans, years of military service are not helping them find a job. The unemployment rate for veterans aged 18 to 24 is more than 30 percent. Elaine Quijano reports on the struggle to put military members back to work.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7387985n&tag=contentMain;contentBody
This 30 percent does not include the 27,000 US Military Personnel to be RIF'ed by President Obama.
All of you complaining about the "US Military Defense Industrial Complex", need to do the Research as to how the "US Military Defense Industrial Complex" got the US out of the Great Depression in 1939 after President FDR's New Deal To The American People Failed (spent money that the US Government did not have to create jobs).
Z-2326376,
LOL. Really. So we must do nothing to maintain YOUR current Standard of Living. And we do not have to abide by any Treaties with other Nations, or anything said or done at the United Nations. Ever heard the term Preemptive US Military Strike, example the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces going into Afghanistan just weeks after 9/11 2001 to Overthrow the Fundamentalist Isalmic Taliban Government since they were providing Islamic Sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden, Al Quada, and the Islamic Terrorist Training Camps at Northern Afghanistan (documented by Doug Stanton in his book "Horse Soldiers: The Extraordinary Story of a Band of US Soldiers Who Rode to Victory in Afghanistan".).
As far as Osama Bin Laden being part of the President's Executive Intelligence Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency. The only CIA that Osama Bin Laden would belong to is the CIA, Culinary Institute of America. As far as that wikipedia (wikipedia disclaimer about facts) post saying that he was here (Afghanistan) fighting the USSR 40th Army Occupation, nope, more baloney written by non participants from information from more non participants, as it was Standard Operating Procedure to write down descriptions (name, age, height, weight, hair color, eye color, distingushing features, where they were born, etc.), photograph, fingerprint, etc. all those trained by the US Military Training Teams training the 1980s Pro Afghan Muhajeen to defeat the USSR 40th Army Occupation. After the US abandoned the 1980s Pro Afghan Muhajeen they were massacred by the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban. This is why the US Military at Northern Afghanistan had to buy the Northern Alliance Trust instead of living with them for years to gain their trust (our previous allies, the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen were massacred). Osama Bin Laden was at Saudi Arabia living with his rich relatives. Almost laughing do you even know how many people are named Osama.
Not quite, most US Military Veterans to still remain competive for US Military Promotions at the very least have a AA or AS, many have BAs or BSs, many of the US Military Officers have the required BA or BS at grades O-1 to O-2, at O-3 most have MAs or MSs, higher than O-3 you are looking at multiple MAs or MSs and many Certifications, and PhDs. This is also seen within the US Military NCO ranks. On the Official US Military Records this is listed as CEL (Civilian Eduation Levels), these CELs are Used for Promotion Purposes as well as being selected for Promotions and Retentions, and especially US Military Schools (Leadership, etc.) as MEL (Military Education Levels). Most US Military Promotion Board like to have a US Military Professional to have a balanced CEL and MEL; so if you continue to get further increases to your CEL (Civilian Education Level) this forces them to send you to more US Military Schools. Some of these US Military Schools also have concurrent College Degree Programs within the US Military Schools. example: US Military Officer's Advanced Course having a Master of Science Degree Program (additional work of the Civilian Masters Degree Program added to the work of the Advanced Course.).
So the US Civilian's fresh out of College are at a significant disadvantage, as matters of both out Educated by US Military Veterans, lack of the Experience of the US Military Veterans many times within the field that the Veteran has an Advanced Degree in, then their is the matter of discipline (no excuse mentality), getting the Mission (Job) done on time (no blame game), accepting responsibility and figuring out Real World Solutions based on experience to prevent another Failure.
This is unlike Generation Y Civilians as stated here, Generation Y competing with the Generation Y of the US Military Returning from the Wars (as two completely different entities, mentalities, discipline levels, attitudes, work ethics, privileged Civilians versus not privileged (earned), etc..), this makes the Generation Y of the US Military more compatible to Generation X (their future employers) than any Civilian Generation Y.:
Gen. Y changing the face of modern business
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7387817n&tag=mncol;lst;2
One is NOT called to serve our country. You volunteer, unless Some idiot has convinced you that the draft is still in effect? I did it back in the late 80's- early 90's, that is why I tell people NEVER join the military when a Republican is President because your dumb @ss will be on some foreign territory fighting a war.
Lets see Clinton never got involved in any thing did he? O yes he did and we are still there. 20 years is a long time to try to guess on the presidents when your serving. The wife an I were talking on why would people get out when you have such a poor economy? this is why she choose to stay in and be a lifer. It was not that bad she got 20K bonus for signing on for ten more years. She just gets tired of dealing with stupid solders that don't have a clue. last night she got called from a privet "I think my wife is having a miscarriage should I take her to the doctor?"
gee...maybe NAFTA and our super smart polititions caused this?? they bowdown to big buisness who then sends all there manufacturing work to cheaper countries.guailty is down but the retail prices are up...more profit for big buisness and more campaign contributions to crooked polititions....
Wow--thanks for your well-reasoned and astutely-worded response, Libbys R Sickos. I'm quite sure that the skills you honed in middle-school bullying people who did not belong to your clique will serve you well.
Beanathome your comments may be true but serve as little purpose as those of the individual you are commenting on. As for Libbys R Sickos, voting based only on political party is an insult to the democtatic society as a whole. Vote for the best candidate not the party. That being said, it has NOTHING to do with the article so it would be nice if people would keep comments to the subject at hand, but this is America and everyone has the right to voice their opinion ...
I do disagree with one point of the article, "the tough job market is even worse for young veterans because they have been serving in the military rather than going to school and making professional connections" As an older veteran I have found the job market is extremely difficult.
Libbys R Sickos banned, flameout, four collapsed comments their first day amid a string of #1 violations.
12,429,220 Skilled Jobs Provided to Illegal Aliens, http://immigrationcounters.com/
Bet the president, and those in the presidents administration are giving speeches or attending Veterans Day functions proclaiming their respect for our service people, and vets. And tomorrow will still be doing more to help illegal aliens than those who deserve their time, and help. Our veterans!
You are so right ! There was a time when we were protected by laws, immigration is hostile if they would only abide the laws in the books I'd feel like an American again.
Vets always get screwed!~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lots of promises, and rarely anything more!
William Root: Excellant post!! You are spot on with that!
There was a time when we were protected by laws? And what laws were these, Lusitania--Jim Crow Laws? And who are "we," Lusitania? It doesn't include veterans, I'll promise you that.
Veterans haven't been well treated . . . ever. Veterans of the Revolutionary war were badly treated, Veterans of the Civil War, WWI, and WWII were badly treated. Veterans of the Vietnam war were particularly badly treated.
Immigration, on the other hand, has been encouraged tacitly and explicitly through the last three Republican administrations. Reagan gave amnesty, Bush II tried to give amnesty, and both Bushes turned a blind eye to it. You have a very short memory, dear, as Bush II was ridiculed by the right for refusing to do anything about the number of immigrants streaming across the southern border. We didn't get over ten million illegal immigrants in the US in the last three years, you know.
So, again, what golden period during which illegal immigrants were theoretically discouraged and veterans were theoretically honored did you have in mind? It won't take those who actually have bothered reading history books very long to explain to you why you are wrong. Fantasy is a lovely thing--but join us in reality once in a while and you might find it more useful.
Root, the current adminstration has deported more illegal aliens than any previous adminstration. And hats off to beanathome for adding more facts to refute the misdirection by Root.
Please don't call me Dear I'm sure I am older than u..
JustSlapMe,
Your probably right that the current administration has deported more illegal aliens than any previous administration. "How many more?" With over "12,000,000 skilled jobs being provided to illegal aliens" in this country, looks like this administration could and should be doing a lot more to see those jobs go to veterans, or at least citizens. Like vigorously enforcing E Verify! The time, and money this administration spends on litigation fighting states that are tired of the costs illegal aliens impose on their citizens would be better spent helping our veterans!
Our Veterans need to be better prepared to re-enter society when they conclude their term of servie. Service members serving in Combat Arms specialties i.e. Infantry, Artillery and a whole host of other areas need before the end of their enlistment afforded the opportunity to train in a job skill that better prepares them to resume their role in the community. Realistically what job in the community correlates to 20 years as an Infantryman or the like?
The monies our leaders so lavishly throw at third world countries that harbor, support and allow terrorists organizations to operate on their soil (Foreign Aid) needs to be cut off immediately thus providing uncounted billions of dollars to sponsor such a program.
This would not increase taxes only redirect funds that are currently being flushed away to no avail.
If a combat medic who is totally trained already can transfer that training without having to go to threw schooling all over again, just be a paramedic. This Soldier has had the best training under fire already! Some Military jobs would transfer over to the civilian side very easily.
Will the republicans treat these americans like they do all other unemployed americans and call them a lazy whining lot of socialists sitting around waiting for the rest of us to take care of them? Just wondering
Will the democrats complain about war and then start a few more. Or complain about banks and keep bailing them out.! . Maybe, harry reid of the senate can get a few votes if he can expand gambling for the nevadan's.
What the hell are you smokin' pal? I think you have your political parties mixed up. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney sent 4,500 good Americans to their death in Iraq for nothing and have not lifted a finger for the veterans since.
George Bush also promised that Iraq would pay us back once we liberate the Iraqi people. How about we just get haliburton to pay back the billions unaccounted for and give it to our Veterans!
Hey Rick: Its liberals and hippies jobs to insult and attack our men and women of the armed forces. Always has been and always will be. My tax dollars would be better spent on taking care of disabled vets and their families if the lazy,shiftless, entitled slobs and the illegal immigrants that your kind seems to protect weren't sucking up all the funds for their own use rather than getting jobs or getting deported permanently back to their own country.
I know that it is not "politically correct" to say this but a lot of those who join the military is because they can't get a good job in the non-military sector. I believe that this is because of lack of education in most cases. Therefore I totally support giving them aid to further their education when they are discharged. Not many companies need someone whos latest experience is killing radical Muslims.
David Brusiee,
"I know that it is not "politically correct" to say this but a lot of those who join the military is because they can't get a good job in the non-military sector."
There are as many reasons why people join the military as there are people in the military. Many enlisted members have had some college education before joining the military or are even college graduates, and many officers have Masters degrees and even PhD.'s. While it is true that many are not well educated, that is not necessarily the reason they join the military. Many of them join just out of plain, good old fashioned patriotism. At any rate, the military does encourage continuing education, and I agree with the rest of your comment.
Hey Biteme-3470275: this liberal, hippie Viet Nam veteran is willing to compare notes with you anytime, anywhere about which party has done more to advance and protect the rights and opportunities of veterans. It seems like you may be confusing decades of Republican efforts to protect the interests of Lockheed-Martin, Grumman, Raytheon, and all the other companies that make the machinery of war with the failure of Republican administrations to provide body armor, toilet paper, and job assistance for the people who actually served. It is time to let the facts have some place in your analysis. By the way, where did you serve?
RBELL- Great post, it get's tiring hearing the same ole liberal, hippy crapola. Coming from a military family, and know many other liberal/Dems who are in the military. Grow-up people. And the program is too give tax breaks to Co's that hire vet's, and it was a by partisan bill.
With Obama not signing the Keystone pipe line and delaying the jobs of 20,000 Americans it is no wonder Vets are having trouble finding jobs,they have studied this for 18 months already how much more do they need to delay,unless it is just for political reasons? what a liar we have as Commander N Chief.
You are so RIGHT. A month ago, I noted that our returning VETS would only swell our ranks of the UNEMPLOYED. They deserve better, our citizens deserve better, but we have a President who only increases the Unemployment rate. He has cost the country many more jobs than he ever hoped to create. The biggest lie he told was when he ran in 2008....Yes we can??? What? Be in a mess and UNEMPLOYED? Obama is a disgrace to the human race.
There are 50,000 jobs in North Dakota. FYI bring your own water it all is contaminated now. Read the news.
OBama is the biggest windbag liar in chief in the last 80 years
Good for you that sedition is not punishable!
Coming home and not having a job. And why do we act surprised....They can always stay in what ever branch of the service they are serving in....Semper Fi
Really? Did you sleep through the last 8 years with Mr. Prez, if so give me a call and I'll tell you what went on!
I-belive, my boyfriend's brother is basically being fired from the Air Force now that he's come home. He's thinking of going into the Army, I think, but sometimes the service screws you too.
If he is being asked not to re-enlist...there is more to the story then you are being told...
why should a veteran have any preference in the job market it was their choice to serve, so just because they joined the military they should have a preference well I went to school and studied for a degree and I should have a preference more than someone that can shoot a gun it not as though they were forced to serve or drafted they made a conscious decision to join and the fact hat there are fewer employment opportunities is the fault of the passage of legislation over the past decade that gave American corporation many tax loopholes to relocate companies out of the country so if there are no jobs theses veterans should call congress not complain besides they get free medical care for life I don't get that benefit and I don't get any preference it is not fare.
harrykid
For a KID with a college degree your spelling is poor( last word fare is spelled fair) and your writing skills ? Are even worse. That is the longest one sentence post I have every seen. Also ALL veterans do not get free life time medical services.
But I do agree with you that preference in the job market is not a right, but something you earn. Something you appear to know nothing about. I will tell you this> I would hirer a veteran over a cry baby like you any day of the week. Just saying .
Happy Veterans to all the veterans out there.
I have had my own company for over 30 years now and have hired hundreds of people. The only applicants we will consider and ultimately put on the payroll are military veterans. They are highly skilled in just about every area, are disciplined, tend to have a great work ethic, have served their country and appreciate having a god job.
The fact that you went to school and studied for a degree means nothing. Applicants with your background are a dime a dozen. Military veterans have demonstrated that they can actually accompish something rather than sit around and simply whine about how unfair government policies, the tax code, etc. are. Most can even spell!
harrykid, you went to college? I would never have known that, considering your spelling. You might want to use spell check next time. When I went into the Marines, most young men my age were going into college to stay out of the service, so it all depends on how you look at it.
I will be interested in seeing the unemployment numbers after Oblabla brings all the troops home. That will be a double - edged sword. And what will congress do with all that money they're not spending on the servicemen? That should just about solve the deficit problem right there, except for all the ex - servicemen and women living on the streets.
Harry,
The vets have contributed that which you never will and evidently cannot understand. It is just and right that a vet get consideration over non vets.
Only a Kid would say that and someone whom will never make a sacrifice for anyone or anything! Just gimme my freedom for free! Don't ask this kid to enlist. Draft him!
@harrykid - Seems to me you're being a bit dismissive of skills acquired in the military, as well as the moral debt we owe people who serve on our behalf. A close family member of mine served in Iraq in 2006. After he rec'd his orders but before he was deployed, he took steps to ensure that his troops would have everything they could need, things the military didn't normally provide or were in very short supply; he started a non-profit to allow friends and businesses to donate money and materials that would support the troops. While in Iraq, he handled transport and materials logistics for nearly 20,000 people in very challenging circumstances. Not once was anything not where it should be, not where it was needed, or broken when it should have been working. And not once did any of his troops lack something that they needed to work, fight, or survive.
And you tell me that someone like that, who displayed initiative even before being deployed, who can manage logistics on that scale, should take a back seat to someone such as yourself who can't punctuate a sentence? I respectfully disagree.
What I would like to see is the military provide some sort of service that would help returning veterans translate the skills they learned into something that could be put on a resume. Many leadership, organizational and practical skills they've learned are things that are in demand by businesses; they may not know how to position those skills on a resume or in an interview. And businesses should be educated on how skills learned while serving translate to their needs. I know my family member could handle logistics for any large manufacturer, but the company he returned to after serving just couldn't make that leap in understanding.
Servicemen and women learn a lot more than how to shoot a gun. It's a shame that they don't always know how to convey that, and business don't understand how they can utilize those skills.
I just had to put this out there I herd this conversation well riding on a bus in a collage town , believe me I just wanted to explode on this young man I personally know the sacrific a veteran pays, as far as fare goes it was just my two cents ,I just could not believe what I had herd ,I personally believe every young adult should serve two years mandatory in the military after high school if anything it would teach them about respect.
@Harry - quit while you are ahead. Your spelling and grammer are grade school at best. My 12 year old would be shocked to see a college or collage educated person misspelling words like you. You want fare treatment how about fair treatment. Just saying...shows what our colleges are turning out. IDIOTS! And yes you may have heard something but you obvioiusly belong to the herd that is following and not leading.
THANK YOU TO ALL WHO SERVE AND HAVE SERVED. YOU ARE THE BEST!
Harry: Get your parents money back from the college you went to. They failed you miserably.
Harry Kid
Are you now trying to sell yourself off as a veteran ? I don't believe you are .
So I ask have you or are you planning or enlisting soon ? I don't believe that.
See a veteran would never write what you wrote and then try and say someone else said it. A veteran with these feelings would say up front that he/she are a veteran and then make the statement, not come back later and try to correct their post.
harrykid is probably an education major.
Vets should not get preference. Hiring should be done based upon skill and an ability to contribute to the company/workplace. I have nothing against vets, but that is not how hiring should be done. Let's face it, the modern workplace is extremely high tech and articulate. Most soldiers (and I admit that this is an assumption, not a fact) joined straight out of high school, perhaps some barely made it out with a GED. There is not a snowballs chance in hell that a legitimate company would higher someone with very little education and training (outside of being able to shoot a gun somewhat straight) over a college grad who has a better chance of being literate, technically savvy, and able to communicate multiple lines of thought. It would defy logic for them to do so. Besides, if we have not learned this already as a nation then we need to start doing so: corporations are not patriotic. Read any news article published recently about A,B, or C company moving headquarters overseas just to skip out on paying taxes. Now that is American pride!
Moving on to other pet peeves...
Frank Gruden - I highly doubt your company hires only vets.
Keith 834246 - Contributions paid for in the form of a paycheck.
Brutis Bear - Sacrifices paid for in the form of a paycheck.
Lizzie From Boston - Moral debt paid for in the form of a paycheck.
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE BECAUSE WE, AS A DEVELOPED NATION, PAY CASH FOR IT.
I have never met a vet who did not sign up for military service because it paid the bills.
I stand corrected, plenty of soldiers have at LEAST a GED, but still not enough to hold down a job in my opinion.
SOURCES:
It's only one source, supposedly from the Department of Defense, but I could believe the data.
eshay03..
Many vets do in fact join the Military directly out of High School. Some even join and obtain a GED while in uniform. I would submit to you, that many and all of the officer corps are college degree holders. All of that being said, I personally know a large number of enlisted personnel that continue their "formal" education while in the service getting those degrees you so fervently insist make someone more useful. I also know many that pursue advanced degrees to include Masters and PhD. Many of these people remain in the enlisted ranks and do not desire to be Commissioned Officers.
Additionally, please save the sanctimonious pablum about the advantages of a degree. I know too many people in the work force who are there only because they have a degree, and NO practical experience. I hate to tell you how many times they ruined a project trying to use their theories from school, only to be saved from total failure by the HS graduate with background and experience.
A degree is nice to have but is NO substitute for experience, dedication, hard work and common sense. I will take the Vet with experience and the ability to work in a team environment over a degree holder with an attitude any day of the year.
To our Veterans: THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND SACRIFICE. YOU'VE EARNED OUR PRAISE.
most vets I know will spend today drinking at the post and complaining about the government they got duped into serving, just wait until China takes over, now there's a military one could be proud of
I too know a vet who obtained his college education while in service. I am aware that some people do so. However, I am referring to a majority of soldiers who have only ever attained a GED in my previous statement. The fact is only a minority of service men and women have a college degree and those who do, I would wager, perform the technical functions within the military.
I understand your argument. I agree: a college degree does not guarantee a job or the ability to function well in the workplace.
However, I have a feeling that in your last two paragraphs you are confusing "attitude" with "confidence". I would wager that the college grad is more confident person than most and that their confidence may be interpreted by some people as having an "attitude".
Confidence is intimidating. You would take the less intimidating, submissive vet, over the guy who can think for himself. I understand.
Yeah, I think you are confusing ones ability to submit with ones ability to be a team player.
Why would someone with a phd or masters degree stay in the non-commissioned ranks as a specialist at best? That makes no sense.
XDm9mm
Thanks for setting esha03 and harrykid straight.
I did join the military shortly after graduating from high school. I did learn a skill while in the Navy that I put to good use after my discharge. In fact I started working in a civilian job 2 days before my official separation date because I did not use all my travel time.
While I never set foot inside a college classroom, I did learn enough about people to eventually become a recruiter of employees for a sizable private company.
Most veterans were high priority applicants in my eyes. esha03 and harrykid would never made the second interview with me.
Open your eyes people. Hire a Vet!!
harrykid: Most veterans I know today will be getting ready for our annual Veterans Advisory Council Dinner, preparing packages to go to our troops overseas, planning events for the patients at the VA Medical Center,working on upcoming programs for Project Welcome Home. Obviously you don't know very many vets. Certainly don't act like you ever served in any branch of the Armed Forces.
Familiar with the expression(Better though a fool and remain silent than to speak and remove all doubt) ?
No I think most Vets today have more important things to do than crying in their beer. If you think that the Chineese Army is something to be proud of immigrate their and enlist. I am sure they would love the publicity.
@eshay - disagree: moral debt is not discharged with a paycheck, any more than you would dismiss a firefighter or police officer who saved your own life with the thought that "well, they're paid to do that, so I don't have to be appreciative."
Also, confidence is born from experience, from putting your skills to the test and learning that those skills will stand the test. Attitude is when you think you have the skills but haven't tested them, yet walk around acting like you have. Soldiers gain confidence from experience. Freshly-minted grads have attitude because they have the education yet no practical experience. I work with a lot of grads in my company's leadership development program. Almost to a person, they have attitude but no real confidence. They're also looking to make a name for themselves, to put something spectacular on their resume. So almost every one of them doesn't collaborate well and has to be taught that they'll only be successful if their team is successful. I contrast that with the occasions I've worked with vets. They collaborate well, they execute well, as a team.
If education is defined as a body of knowledge, there's more than one way to get an education. I'm not saying vets should get preferential treatment because business is business, and skills count. But to dismiss an experiential education because it wasn't an academic one is a mistake because soldiers do learn skills that are easily translatable to the business world.
Lizzie,
You do not need to be a soldier, a police officer, or a firefighter to save a life. Just about anyone can save a life. I saved a guy who was having a heart attack by shoving Nitro under his tongue (oh yeah, I learned that in school, not experience).
Experience is great, but eventually somebody has to sit down and do some real critical thinking in order for their to be progress in the world. We are a well nourished nation for that very reason.
And nobody in their right mind would join the military without first knowing they were going to get paid. Money is the great motivator. Honor my ass, everyone is following the dollar signs. If they say otherwise than they are full of themselves.
We pay to play.
eshay03... need I say it again? Your "attitude" is showing very brightly. Confidence is built from experience and an inner strength. From a belief in self and what you can do for and with others.
Oh, you put some poor persons nitro under their tongue. What would your reaction be at a major accident with multiple sever injuries? Would you be able to initiate triage? Make determinations as to injury severity and possibly make the decision as to which get care and which don't? The vast majority of military personnel are capable of that. They have been taught how to make determinations and tough choices. They might not like them, but they'll make them.
And may I ask why would someone in the enlisted ranks remain a specialist? I know a Sargent Major who holds a PhD in International Relations, and speaks/reads/writes 5 languages fluently and is capable of starting a thought in one and finish in another. He ENJOYS what he does. If he took a commission, he would not be able to use his skills in the manner he feels best at this point in his life.
Also, I'm NOT confusing attitude and confidence. In truth, I believe you are.
Let us get real . First the US is involved is giving subsidies to numerous American industries . This includes brokerage , accounting , banking , the auto industry , giving free oil land to major corporation , giving venture capital to firms about to fail , constantly supporting large banks, the fed putting the national debt on the their balance sheets to fool the amount of debt , Freddie and Fannie , stealing social security funds and placing an iou instead of funding social security , not admitting Medicare is a subsidy for not funding Retiree Medical plans when the the plans should be vested with the amount due the retirees and be the same as the active employees etc. It goes on etc. Again , national guard and reserve units of all branches of the U.S Armed returned vet are guaranteed their former jobs by law . This doesn't mean they qualify for these jobs as they lost time in the military . So they have to use their skills to catch up . I currently do not feel they should be funded to do this as you have to realize they are firing another individual holding this job who now has to look for work . Also this generation of troops was given bonuses to enlist and to stay in the military . The will also be charge all their GI bill for this education as this protect their families and children and pay all their necessary needs and normal standard of US living for years .
I do have a solution for all these Vets . I suggest opening up Anwa in Alaska , and having the US Government do a Petrobras structure where the 49ers private company will train the returned Vet who Will still be officially in the service they were in with the rank but not outrank any private teacher or the private employees who are experience . They are to teach them the skills to drill wells and their instructors are to include engineering officers from such places as West Point and the Army Corp of Engineers to train these Vets in mining engineering , and remediation in math skills are to be made available . The troops will have to work on the drilling as roughnecks regardless of their skills needed and be engaged in physical training to do this work . They are to be paid army wage of privates even if their ranks are greater and work 14 hour days including classes and study time . The point is the government can retain these troops in a good field. As to wives they are to be given private housing allowance the ability to get necessary item and transport back and forth Army stores and resources not just at the PX. Such as shoes for their families and clothes not found at the PXand computerers , TV for the family , free transport for their wives to study the same classes they are taking and free meals . Etc . Once this is done , the USA should take back the free oil lands given to say Exxon and hire these troops to produce the land with Exxon keeping 49% of any profit if there is any . Pipelines have to be build by the oil industry to develop off Alaska oil , and again this is another job for the US. returning military that is available . As to the Cramer discover of needed experience oil men I believe in Minn . guess who is trained to do this after this . Aflter the Vet receive the total experience of training they will have to give back only 1 % of there training value every year of their lives except if their earning double in gross for each double they pay another 1 % or 2 % for a double . This is the best education loan available anywhere . It is based upon earning after the education.
Chuck,
Just a few minor observations. You must have quit school somewhere around the 6th grade. To be candid, even that's being extremely generous. My grandson in the first grade can compose a thought and sentence appreciably better than you.
Also, there appears to be a great deal of animosity on your part. I will surmise that you never served. In truth, with language skills such as you display, the Armed Forces likely rejected you.
I do agree with you that the Government is, sadly, too involved with commercial enterprises directly. The Government should not be in the business of picking commercial winners and losers. That is the job of the market place. The only endeavor the Government should undertake is to make the environment good for business to operate.
To all those who served, THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND SACRIFICE.
Very well stated. Unfortunately as your commentary is more than two lines a lot of the people who whine the loudest and have extremely short attention spans will not get it. You have made some valid points. I was fortunate that I had the foresight to earn an M.B.A. during my 26 years in the Army and had something to offer employers when I retired.
Have to agree. You seem to have a working plan there. I as SFC also had the opportunity to earn an M.B.A. while on active duty, but I do like the way you think and at least present an altenative.
Meanwhile the USA has China building electronic parts for our military defense systems and used counterfeit parts at that. Sadly for all our men and women that have served so gallantly in our armed forces greed and corruption will bring the US down if we don’t radically alter the course we are on now. We need to keep voting these treasonous politicians out of office and rise up new leaders to take this country back to a country by the people for the people instead of by greed for greed.
Veterans day has become a "Hallmark" holiday where vets have to work and government employees, bankers and schools take the day off.
This country is sooooooo broken.
keith,
"Veterans day has become a "Hallmark" holiday where vets have to work and government employees, bankers and schools take the day off."
I've noticed that there isn't a holiday on the American calendar that banks do not observe, and why not? They don't really have to work very hard for their money anyway. If they could invent a few more holidays, they probably would.
kieth: You forgot about those that have a three day weekend to get drunk and throw up. We are sooooooo broken.
I would prefer no job, over no limbs. Take the aid money for foreign lands, and create jobs for our USA taxpayers. Not vacations for our elected officials.
Mark... It use to be illegal for DOD to contract to anyone other than American corporations. But Globalism took over DOD. Who is the biggest threat to America? So we allow themto make military hardware that be used against them??? Just saying Why did we change that law???
Two words treasonous leadership, the people of the US need kick out the so called leaders that our selling out this country and rise up leaders that will serve the people rather then their greed.
Don't just thank a VETERAN!!! Hire one! You won't regrett it! best trained people in the World!
As long as the GOP has the House they will continue to block job legislation they themselves supported when the bill didn't have President Obama's name on it.
The party of NO continues to kill jobs behind the spectacle of the GOP Presidential Candidate Clown Show.
It's a tough time for everyone, vets included. I remember when I was released from active duty in 1964, the anti-war movement just getting in gear. Left Ft. Bragg and went back home to Chicago. No jobs. I went to Business Mens Clearing House, a agency, and got a job in three days. I was cautioned by my counsellor to not talk up my service time and to not wear my uniform to interviews. I was proud, still am, of my military service and that bugged me, but, I was looking for a job, not make a statement. 'Course, if there's no jobs available there's always the option of re-enlisting. Man, lol, thinking back sometimes I wished I had done that.
My dad returned from Vietnam to his hometown in Los Angeles in the early seventies (71 at the very latest--I can't remember exactly) and faced open discrimination when he went to find a job. He worked at my uncle's meat market until he was finally picked up by General Motors, where he worked for the next 35 years until being made to retire. He was very young when he joined the Army too and had to get parental permission because he was 17.
I always hate reading stories about how difficult things are for the veterans when they return home but this time it doesn't surprise me in the least. We're all having trouble finding employment, unfortunately.
Brutis Bear: I also trained as a combat medic and yes a lot of states with a little up-training and certification accept this toward paramedic certification. Other Military Occupational Specialists that transfer well are in the administrative areas, transportation, supply and a host of other career fields. So in this you are absolutely correct.
Don't forget the USPS 25% are Veterans and this is going away by Congressional protectionism for UPS!
Veterans day has become a "Hallmark" holiday where vets have to work, while government employees, bankers and schools take the day off.
This country is sooooooo broken.
yeah, the America these guys were fighting and dying for is gone, and your jobs have been given to illegals who will do the work cheaper...WELCOME BACK TO THE PLACE YOU USED TO CALL HOME!!! Oh and thanks for all of your hard work and dedication...
Greg...
By illegals you mean China? What is made in this country that we need illegal labor? Harley Davidsons are made in Mexico!
Exactly don’t blame people who are struggling to find the American Dream for the deeds of our sellout, treasonous, so called leaders. Start voting these people out of office in mass and rise up true leaders who will serve the country and the people rather then their own greed.
People like me whom served in the combat arms 11 bravo. We did not have the available time to go to schooling and in the Regan Admin. they killed the GI bill so I never got those benefits.
So things are better but not near as good as the politicians who serve in office, never risking life or limb, get the best of the best! To include base pay for a life time for one term of service (self service)
Same should be given to all Honorably discharged Veterans!
Didn't we use to call the people who lead from behind" the queers in the rear"?
What can you say besides - DUH!
This country has been owned by the military/corp. cartel for over sixty years. The American public has been duped so insidiously and for so long that what Ike warned us about has come to fruition. These poor souls who actually think their protest will work are wasting their precious time. It took almost four years for them to realize what had gone down. Read and heed your history, it's all there, but we are an arrogant species and are cursed with redundancy in our DNA. POWER TO THE PEOPLE, RIGHT ON!
The only chance we have now is to keep voting these treasonous sellout politicians out of office and rise up new leaders to take our country back. Veterans Day needs to become take back our country day, so that our men and women who so valiantly gave their lives for freedom did not die in vain.
I work for the US Post Office and 25% of the workforce are Veterans. Guess who are the ones that hardly ever call in sick/ and show to work Monday - Saturday, week after week.
Wanna guess which part of the workforce pays "ATTENTION TO DETAILS" to include the dress, haircut, appearance Code.
We know our rights and do not allow any hanky-panky from some supervisors that only has a HS diploma and doesn't have a CLUE of the rules and regulations of the USPS.
In my workplace, RANK is still recognized with a grain of salt. We are civilians now but still accept that old chain of command structure because a retired E-7 will take that newbie E-4 under his wing and teach him how the system works and it does not matter what service you where discharged from.
Translate all of this at the USPS with the VETS and take it to another Company. BET you the results will be the same.
Its all about, Duty, Honor, Country and that is not teached at Harvard or Yale
Teached,Really man-1124691,It's taught. There will always be the poor and uneducated of this country to believe in that patriotic drivel and be the first to fight in any war the rich and military elite invent. The Vietnam war was brought to a quick end when the one sided draft started the lottery and students and wealthy sons were subject to going into battle. WAKE UP!
It's just that simple. Take one under your wing and show them the ropes. One thing that is really missing in the Civilian world and it's really not the worker bees fault. It's just the way the system is set up. There is no esprit de corps and camaraderie. The Civilian world is a whole different animal for Veterans, something they are not used to. Some can adjust and others cannot.
Some Vets don't have other options and join the Military. When they get out, many are just plain lost, a fish out of water.
There is nothing like Camaraderie in the Civilian world unless a person with prior service runs a business that a Vet stumbles upon. Then they are welcomed with open arms because they know the culture.
Many civilians are just too busy trying to survive by themselves.
Teach is present
Taught is past tense
Stop bringing back the Vietnam War unless you served in that conflict. At that time I will listen to your complaints. Do you really think that all the soldiers that participated during this War agreed with it??
You watch and follow the "SOFT" side of a competition in the TV with a baseball game but it escalates when it comes to Football where you have the absolute high level of physical COMBAT in sports but that sport is OK with you.
You fail to understand that the competition sports in the world is a business and to you that is acceptable but GOD forbid there is a conflict in which an American participates and sheds some blood.
Wan't to know how many shootings happen in the city of LA everyday?? Maybe in Mexico which is right next to us. Rest assured that the battles in which you do not want to participate in will have others from your street, city, county joining and protecting you while you type behind your computer.
I am not a War Hawk but will not be a victim either, there is a difference.
I retired from the Army in 2001. Since then I have called off sick one time and have worked at the same job since 2001. Guys here thought I had either won the lottery or died. You wil lnot find a more disciplined group of people.
Yes that is exactly how things are done here. Chain of command works here too.
Sorry - can't stand bad grammar and really can't stand someone defending their bad grammar.
Trued - teach is present and taught can be used as past tense; however you used the word "teached" which isn't a word at all. The proper word is "taught"
They are "kicked to the curb" after they fufill their tour, if they won't fight for "the Rich" what good are they to them?
Welcome Back vets, this is what you've been fighting for! I guess if you want a job now days, you have to put your life on the line.